Kenny

Took a shortcut through the lanes last night and came upon the required slot a bit quicker than usual (usually I save the lanes for the Escort). So being dry road, planted foot on brakes and (automatic reaction with the Mk1, started cadence braking). What happens? ABS cuts in, virtually zero stopping ability and sailed straight on down the road past the slot. If that'd been a corner I'd have been in the trees. Driver controlled locked up wheels on dry tarmac would've stopped me a lot quicker.

Not pleasant, frightened the life out of me, never felt so "not in control". Always was suspicious of things that do the thinking for you, might be ok on a rep-mobile for your average pleb, but leave it off performance cars please.

How do you turn it off, someone mentioned pulling the fuse, anyone care to suggest which one - 94 WRX.

Ken

[This message has been edited by Kenny (edited 08-10-1999).]

Richard Simpson

I also have a 94 WRX except my car does not appear to have ABS, I was wondering if this was a mistake but perhaps it might have been the better option.

Did

I have a 95 WRX which also appears not to have ABS.
Like Richard I have been wondering about this. Does anyone know whether we should have ABS on our cars (not that I'm complaining because I hate it too)
Thats it I'm off to look for the pump.
Did

firefox

Howdy..

Different models had different options...

Eg... Type R's had water spray instead of ABS

Depends on your exact model....and year of course...

J.

TonyNesta

If you have an accident and the insurance company gets wind of (or their engineer inspects and discovers) you disabling ABS, forget about ANY kind of cover, regardless of how good a driver you are. Expect several large men to visit you intent on repossessing your house to pay for the damages to the other party in the ensuing legal shenanigans. If however, your car was never fitted with ABS, no problem!

Greg Small

insread of pulling the offending fuse why not replace it with a blown item. That way you can play the daft man if you run into some one.
Cheers Greg.

Kenny

Greg,

Just the thought I'd had - great minds and all that :-)

pilch

Hmm. Has me thinking. I don't think my MY94 WRX Jap grey has ABS as I locked it in testing, so how do I find out? My brakes are decidedly dodgy anyway. Very spongy. How responsive are the brakes supposed to be on these motors? Its being serviced on Weds anyways.

pilch

Stef

An easy way to test for ABS is to brake on an uneven surface. Gravel tends to work the best.

Stef.

AlexM

Wouldn't replacing the existing ABS fuse with a blown one illuminate the ABS warning light on the dashboard?.

You'd still be on dodgy ground from an insurance point of view if you were driving a vehicle with a known defect (AFAIK)

Cheers,

Alex

TonyNesta

;-)

MorayMackenzie

...And it could be quite tricky to replace the ABS warning bulb with a blown one!

robski

>Driver controlled locked up wheels on dry tarmac would've stopped me a lot quicker.

Im not so sure about this, in the tests I have seen, approx 50% of the time locked wheels stop quicker, however, when they didnt stop quicker, they were significantly less. Also I disagree that locked wheels are properly under control.

I would be interested in seeing a controlled test on this, if someones willing to donate a donor car, somewhere? e.g. 10 stops from 60 with ABS, 10 from 60 without.

And, I thought the absolute must not do with ABS cars was to cadence brake, because it confuses the ABS!?

robski

Kenny

Moray - Locked up wheels will remove any useful steering effect, so it's not something you'd want to happen when cornering (shouldn't be braking in a corner anyway but that's a different issue). However in this case it was a straight piece of dry tarmac. Given I wasn't needing to steer, a bit of "controlled" locking up would have stopped the car shorter than the abs did in fact achieve. My definition of "controlled" here is - planting food hard on the brakes, expecting a lock-up situation and removing / applying as required

Robski, Yes I think cadence braking will confuse the abs, however it's second nature for me to do it and it all boils down to personal preference and the fact that I don't like things being done for me.

Actually I guess it's fairly irrelevant since I'm trying to get rid of it anyway (been offered £10.5k by the dealer, anyone want to make a better offer?). I just don't think it's the sort of thing that ought to be on a performance car. Note that the Type-R's don't have it.

Cheers
Ken



[This message has been edited by Kenny (edited 11-10-1999).]

Oz

Cadence braking will definitely confuse ABS. The way to use ABS is to plant your foot firmly and leave it there (the CPU will do the rest). ABS provides far better stopping ability than a human. I wouldn't be without it!

Orville

I think the argument for ABS is that in mnst weather conditions and on most road surfaces ABS will slow you quicker and safer than unassisted brakes. If you live in a country where you drive regually on snow and ice then your car should be fitted with studded tyres or snow chains and ABS should help in this scenario. ABS should also provide safer braking on gravel around corners.

I think the main problem with ABS is the God complex. People believe thay are safer so they drive faster and brake later. This is why statistaclly ABS equipped cars are just as likely to be involved in an accident as those without.

Peronally, I prefer having ABS. Whatever car I use, if it snows or if I drive on a very loose surface I drive slower and brake earlier.

Kenny

"ABS provides far better stopping ability than a human"

Not on gravel or snow it won't

Richard F

Isn't it true that type R's don't have ABS as that's the model they use to homologate the rally stuff (hence the water spray and driver controlled diff) and ABS isn't allowed in WRC?

Or is that cobblers?

Milky

There was a program on TV a couple of nights back, with a feature on ABS brakes.
The guy talking about it was a techie/test bloke from Mercades

According to him 60%(I think) of people don't know how to us ABS properley.
The correct was is to push the brake pedal as hard as possible and keep it pressed hard until the vehicle stops.

As has been said, let the computer do what's it's been programmed to do.

saying that..

A local head of police driver training advised me not to get ABS on my previous car, as ABS doesn't allow as much control when braking i.e. unforseen circumstances.

just my two penny's worth.

Darren.

robski

When an unexpected event happens, I have always stuck by what I was told by a police instructor a few years ago, "Brake as hard as poss for as long as poss, then release brakes and steer around problem". The point being that if you dont manage to avoid the obstruction you will be going slower. If you try to avoid without slowing at all, you are far more likely to end up in a ditch or something.

I agree that ABS is poor on VERY loose surfaces, its good on packed snow tho, not loose snow.

ABS has developed a lot over the last few years, and I am sure the problems are that you get this "I can apply my cadence braking better than a computer" theory. Most ABS now monitors hundreds of times a second, and releases from individual brakes. A human cannot do that.

robski

andyp

Thought I'd just stick my oar in.....until the Impreza I always thought ABS was the way to go.

IMHO most good drivers, when alert *may* be able to break better than ABS, however my argument has always been that it's a good thing to have when your not 100% on the ball. You know, driving home on a damp winter evening, not driving particularly fast, but again, not concentrating 100%.

However, I do have to say that the Subaru ABS system does seem to be pretty pants really. Not only does it seem to cut in when you would not really expect it to, but it seems to over compensate and take a lot longer for the ABS to cut out. I was just wondering if anyone else thought the Scooby system is underpar or whether in general the opinion was that ALL abs is crap?

Andy

Kenny

Andy,

I'd tend to agree with your comments about ABS be using when in "autopilot" mode. This makes me think that the ideal option is to have it switchable so it can be disabled when in "hack" mode. Though this would cause insuranve problems i'm sure.

The only other ABS-equiped car I've driven was an Astra SXi some years ago (pool car) and I'm sure that did work better.

At some point I'd like to try a Scooby without ABS as I'm sure it would be alot more confidence enspiring

MorayMackenzie

Kenny,

I think you confused me with someone else, maybe Robski?

I simply followed up on the "how to disable the abs on your car in an insurance survivable way comedy thread", I didn't say anything about braking technique.

I understand your point about not braking on corners, hpwever I would argue that in the right circumstances (not on the public road, of course), judicious use of left-foot braking and trailbraking is a definite advantage. I find that my STIs standard suspension is well setup for judicious use of trail/left-foot braking, although many claim theirs suffer understeer.

Moray

Kenny

Moray,

Doh! Yep you're right, sorry about that

Ken

I'll try harder when reading replies in future

pilch

Ken,

If you live anywhere near Bucks and have insurance to cover, you could try my WRX. I don't have ABS. Failing that, are you going to the Reading meet?

pilch