Massive Issues with 2005 WRX wagon - Inverted Strut Nightmare! Compatabiilty Question
21 February 2012, 11:05 PM
#1
Massive Issues with 2005 WRX wagon - Inverted Strut Nightmare! Compatabiilty Question
Hi all!
I've been tearing my hair out all day.
I have a 2005 build date WRX Wagon. ('5') in the VIN.
The rear struts are knocking badly, so I decided to order a set of 4 KYB Excel G's to get it sorted. Camskill cancelled the order after one of their guys did loads of work for me and said that KYB do NOT make a replacement shock absorber for my car. Subaru want £880 for the parts!
I checked my car. It has the inverted strut design which apparently was applied to WRX's from 2005 on (build date, car is a '54 plate!). It's NOT an "STI" strut, I don't think. Car has 5x100 PCD etc....
What I want to know is this:
Can I buy the KYB Excel G Strut to simply replace the lower strut leg? It looks to me (from parts catalogues) like the top mounts didn't change, even with the change to inverted struts, so I should be able to whack on the "normal" units, right?
Or do I need to build a complete '03 spec strut including top mounts?
can someone confirm to me that the rear hub knuckle and the chasis mount points didn't change from 2002-2006ish with the GG Imprezas, so I can sor this out and have working rear suspension?
Alternatively, if someone has a complete 2003 WRX rear strut, saloon or wagon, I would gladly have it to test fit and see if everything should fit.
Cheers, Dave/
I've been tearing my hair out all day.
I have a 2005 build date WRX Wagon. ('5') in the VIN.
The rear struts are knocking badly, so I decided to order a set of 4 KYB Excel G's to get it sorted. Camskill cancelled the order after one of their guys did loads of work for me and said that KYB do NOT make a replacement shock absorber for my car. Subaru want £880 for the parts!
I checked my car. It has the inverted strut design which apparently was applied to WRX's from 2005 on (build date, car is a '54 plate!). It's NOT an "STI" strut, I don't think. Car has 5x100 PCD etc....
What I want to know is this:
Can I buy the KYB Excel G Strut to simply replace the lower strut leg? It looks to me (from parts catalogues) like the top mounts didn't change, even with the change to inverted struts, so I should be able to whack on the "normal" units, right?
Or do I need to build a complete '03 spec strut including top mounts?
can someone confirm to me that the rear hub knuckle and the chasis mount points didn't change from 2002-2006ish with the GG Imprezas, so I can sor this out and have working rear suspension?
Alternatively, if someone has a complete 2003 WRX rear strut, saloon or wagon, I would gladly have it to test fit and see if everything should fit.
Cheers, Dave/
22 February 2012, 10:53 AM
#2
I may try greasing them in a half-arsed fashion as a stop gap measure, but the fact remains they're scored, and won't last, and even if it cures it, the knocking and graunching will be back soon no doubt. I want a more permanent solution.
I've been digging, and this is what I've found:
UK 2005 Build Date WRX's got inverted struts - NOT STi spec, just their very own fail-o-matic inverted strut design. It doesn't look like the top hats changed, and the damper body just has a lug on it to bold up as if it was a 2004 right way up damper. But top hats DID change 2003-2004.
What didn't change, at all, throughout the GF/GD build run is the actual Chassis mount points, or the Hub Knuckle design. Thankfully.
Doing a lot of digging re part numbers and peoples experiences, and me and a mate came to the conclusion that you can build (or buy!) a complete 2003 spec strut, non inverted, including top hat, standard WRX pattern, and simply bolt it in place with 3X top hat bolts and 2X Strut leg bolts, and that's your job jobbed. New 2003 spec suspension - with KYB's if you so choose.
To confirm this, one of the leads I was working on yesterday came good this morning: "Howard" of HDC Subaru, Hebden Bridge (who camskill had informed me knew how to sort this problem) told me this:
"You can build a complete 2003 strut and fit it directly to a 2005 WRX, front and back, with no problems. You're only missing a bump stop"
"You can make the 2003 dampers fit the 2004> spec top hats, by machining them, but if you use 2003 top hats you don't have to."
So... Plan is this:
Build a complete KYB rear strut, for a 2003 car, and bolt it to mine.
And then have a pint.
I will keep this thread updated, but it may be a while before I get around to executing this fiendishly cunning plan.
Again, if anyone has one or both rear struts, even with a failed damper, knocking about for me to trial fit, I'd more than happily have them in exchage fora few beer tokens.
I've been digging, and this is what I've found:
UK 2005 Build Date WRX's got inverted struts - NOT STi spec, just their very own fail-o-matic inverted strut design. It doesn't look like the top hats changed, and the damper body just has a lug on it to bold up as if it was a 2004 right way up damper. But top hats DID change 2003-2004.
What didn't change, at all, throughout the GF/GD build run is the actual Chassis mount points, or the Hub Knuckle design. Thankfully.
Doing a lot of digging re part numbers and peoples experiences, and me and a mate came to the conclusion that you can build (or buy!) a complete 2003 spec strut, non inverted, including top hat, standard WRX pattern, and simply bolt it in place with 3X top hat bolts and 2X Strut leg bolts, and that's your job jobbed. New 2003 spec suspension - with KYB's if you so choose.
To confirm this, one of the leads I was working on yesterday came good this morning: "Howard" of HDC Subaru, Hebden Bridge (who camskill had informed me knew how to sort this problem) told me this:
"You can build a complete 2003 strut and fit it directly to a 2005 WRX, front and back, with no problems. You're only missing a bump stop"
"You can make the 2003 dampers fit the 2004> spec top hats, by machining them, but if you use 2003 top hats you don't have to."
So... Plan is this:
Build a complete KYB rear strut, for a 2003 car, and bolt it to mine.
And then have a pint.
I will keep this thread updated, but it may be a while before I get around to executing this fiendishly cunning plan.
Again, if anyone has one or both rear struts, even with a failed damper, knocking about for me to trial fit, I'd more than happily have them in exchage fora few beer tokens.
22 February 2012, 11:16 AM
#3
Scooby Newbie
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 27
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
When i bought my 04 wrx wagon in 2006, the dealer ( crossroads ) told me it had
sti suspension, the struts are red kyb's & are thicker in diameter than standard.
my rear struts have developed a slight noise, so i might have the same problem when
i have to replace them. On a side note the ride with this set up is shocking.
sti suspension, the struts are red kyb's & are thicker in diameter than standard.
my rear struts have developed a slight noise, so i might have the same problem when
i have to replace them. On a side note the ride with this set up is shocking.
22 February 2012, 05:15 PM
#4
Scooby Regular
I have a 2005 wrx and got my rear shocks replaced by the garage i bought it from. They just said they put sti's on but i dunno if it's original subaru ones or aftermarket. I just know there gold. Always ment to phone the place they bought them to find out so i can buy fronts to match
22 February 2012, 05:28 PM
#5
I have a 2005 wrx and got my rear shocks replaced by the garage i bought it from. They just said they put sti's on but i dunno if it's original subaru ones or aftermarket. I just know there gold. Always ment to phone the place they bought them to find out so i can buy fronts to match
You've lead me to something very interesting though: Here's an 02-04 Sti Ultra SR Shock:
Looks inverted to me!!!
Could you do me a massive farour mate, jack the back of your car up and see what the shock looks like, and if it has that really thick piston? Grab a couple of mobile pics for me?
If you could give me the name of the garage (pm me if you like) I'd be grateful to know too, so i can find out how they sorted this.
Cheers!!!
26 February 2012, 08:17 PM
#7
Out of interest, at what sort of mileage did they start knocking?
According to a specialist I have spoken to, the knocking syndrome *shouldn't* affect the handling.
There is also a thread on nasioc where they fit Koni inserts in the standard housings so there is another option there.
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1276865
According to a specialist I have spoken to, the knocking syndrome *shouldn't* affect the handling.
There is also a thread on nasioc where they fit Koni inserts in the standard housings so there is another option there.
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1276865
Last edited by fpan; 26 February 2012 at 08:20 PM.
Trending Topics
28 February 2012, 01:49 AM
#9
This is useful information! Can you confirm some stuff for me mate?
1) did you use/keep your standard tophats/topmounts front and rear?
2) Are the KYB Ultra SR's you fitted normal way up or upside down (inverted?) - if you have part numbers that would be ace!
3) What's the ride like? I take it you have lowering springs?
I am still working on this problem, but my wife is ill and caring for her is taking precedence!
I htink my original plan - KYB Excel G's would have worked fine and it's just Camskill throwing a spanner in the works and cancelling my order!
1) did you use/keep your standard tophats/topmounts front and rear?
2) Are the KYB Ultra SR's you fitted normal way up or upside down (inverted?) - if you have part numbers that would be ace!
3) What's the ride like? I take it you have lowering springs?
I am still working on this problem, but my wife is ill and caring for her is taking precedence!
I htink my original plan - KYB Excel G's would have worked fine and it's just Camskill throwing a spanner in the works and cancelling my order!
28 February 2012, 12:56 PM
#10
Scooby Regular
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Norn Iron
Posts: 694
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I just bought from camskill the kyb ultras the same as the above pic. I am gonna hopefully fit these tonight to a 2007 hawk wrx
I provided camskill with my chassis number and they have assured me they will fit
I provided camskill with my chassis number and they have assured me they will fit
Last edited by scooby1929; 28 February 2012 at 12:57 PM.
28 February 2012, 01:53 PM
#11
I've ordered the KYB Excel G-s so will report back if Camskill actually sell them to me!
I'm confident that they will fit.... Fingers crossed! FB tuning will be doing the work so I'm sure he can deal with any minor issues. Worst case is I also have to buy a set of 2003 spec top hats for the rear, the front top hats are unchanged 2000-2007.
Got eibacj PRo-R springs and camber bolts to go on too. If you're going to do a job, do it properly!
My car is at 55k miles, who knows how long it's been knocking or whether shocks have been replaced before? I've seen reports of inverted dampers knocking within 1,000 miles, and people going through 3 sets of them whilst the car was under warranty. Hence why I want non inverted shocks on my car, so hopefully they last out a bit better.
Re the knocking not affecting handling? No knocking won't, but I can feel the shocks "settle" when I park up, and there is obviously plenty of sticktion going on, so I think it *could* affect handling if the shocks aren't compressing well enough in bends etc. BEtter safe than sorry where tyres, brakes and shocks are concerned!
I'm confident that they will fit.... Fingers crossed! FB tuning will be doing the work so I'm sure he can deal with any minor issues. Worst case is I also have to buy a set of 2003 spec top hats for the rear, the front top hats are unchanged 2000-2007.
Got eibacj PRo-R springs and camber bolts to go on too. If you're going to do a job, do it properly!
Out of interest, at what sort of mileage did they start knocking?
According to a specialist I have spoken to, the knocking syndrome *shouldn't* affect the handling.
There is also a thread on nasioc where they fit Koni inserts in the standard housings so there is another option there.
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1276865
According to a specialist I have spoken to, the knocking syndrome *shouldn't* affect the handling.
There is also a thread on nasioc where they fit Koni inserts in the standard housings so there is another option there.
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1276865
Re the knocking not affecting handling? No knocking won't, but I can feel the shocks "settle" when I park up, and there is obviously plenty of sticktion going on, so I think it *could* affect handling if the shocks aren't compressing well enough in bends etc. BEtter safe than sorry where tyres, brakes and shocks are concerned!
28 February 2012, 06:38 PM
#13
I might. Or I might end up with a car with compliant suspension suitable for UK roads?! The shocks are OE spec, the springs are designed to be used with OE spec shocks to lower a touch and firm up a touch....
I don't knwo why people are so scared of "softer" springs and "softer dampers". Firm suspension gives the impression of speed because it FEELS fast....
Problems with "bounce" tend to come with dampers underspecced for the springs, Problems with ride and "packing down" happen when you have stiff dampers and soft springs. I'm aiming for a decent ride quality, then slightly better looks, and hopefully without compromise to handling. Car will also be having camber bolts fitted and be laser aligned to "fast road" specs after fitting.
Remains to be seen. I'll report back my findings.
28 February 2012, 06:56 PM
#14
Scooby Regular
Oh dear..Standar Subar usprings are far too soft to tart with IMHO. The only way the cars don't constantly bottom out is they use a long progresive bump stop (spring assistor in subaru speak). Rears on my STi come with 145mm of total travel with 70mm of sag and 45mm left before the bump stop touches. I can compress the 80mm long bump stop only 30mm.
If the WRX is similar, and you go softer and shorter you'll find your spring progrerssion is very marked, and then you'll find out which rate your dampers are matched to....
The STi comes with 4F and 3.75R rates and with the right settings on a set of BC shocks and 5/4 springs, the ride feels more smooth than standard. The spring can do the work, the bump stops keep out of it and the damper can work to the constant bounce rate and do it's job properly.
Where the cars let themselves down on UK roads is the lack of travel in bump before the bump stops become dominant and the car bounces off the bumps in an uncontrolled manner. it's not nice.
With O.E. dampers, you need to think through changes. Standard STi dampers work well with the Prodrive springs and replacement bump stops, without the stops it's a pig.
Good luck.
If the WRX is similar, and you go softer and shorter you'll find your spring progrerssion is very marked, and then you'll find out which rate your dampers are matched to....
The STi comes with 4F and 3.75R rates and with the right settings on a set of BC shocks and 5/4 springs, the ride feels more smooth than standard. The spring can do the work, the bump stops keep out of it and the damper can work to the constant bounce rate and do it's job properly.
Where the cars let themselves down on UK roads is the lack of travel in bump before the bump stops become dominant and the car bounces off the bumps in an uncontrolled manner. it's not nice.
With O.E. dampers, you need to think through changes. Standard STi dampers work well with the Prodrive springs and replacement bump stops, without the stops it's a pig.
Good luck.
28 February 2012, 07:17 PM
#15
Hmm! Ok! food for thought there. Odd that the standard cars are so "poorly" thought out. The Pro-R springs aren't "Softer" they are a bit (but only a bit) firmer, and lower just an inch or so.
We'll see. A change of springs won't be too difficult, but the thing that I'm really, really trying to avoid is an overly harshly sprung/damped car.
Worst come to the worst, I'm looking at going back to stock springs and ride height.
But knowing how I drive and use my car, I think I'll have it in the ballpark with a slight lowering and stiffening, but stock damping rates... We're not talking huge changes here, jsut tweeking...
Perhaps we can have a scoobnet get together to see how different approaches work in the real world!
We'll see. A change of springs won't be too difficult, but the thing that I'm really, really trying to avoid is an overly harshly sprung/damped car.
Worst come to the worst, I'm looking at going back to stock springs and ride height.
But knowing how I drive and use my car, I think I'll have it in the ballpark with a slight lowering and stiffening, but stock damping rates... We're not talking huge changes here, jsut tweeking...
Perhaps we can have a scoobnet get together to see how different approaches work in the real world!
Last edited by Dave Hedgehog; 28 February 2012 at 07:19 PM.
28 February 2012, 07:41 PM
#16
I have the ultra SR dampers all round. they are slightly stiffer than stock but not uncomfortably so. I also have STI prodrive springs which again stiffen the car up a little and lower it by approx 20mm. To fit the STI prodrive springs to a WRX you need to change the top mounts to STI top mounts the bottom spring platform is the same for the WRX and STI but the top mount is different. The only reason I have went this route is I bought the struts as a complete package from another member so fitted them straight on amd also the STI springs are slightly stiffer than the WRX ones. The normal route for a WRX would be to use an uprated Eibach or Prodrive WRX spring which will fit with the WRX top mount.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
