Lowering-What springs
12 June 2011, 11:50 AM
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Lowering-What springs
Hi guys
Fancy dropping the scoob a wee bit to give it a better stance over the 18's
02 Prodrive bug so quite firm as it is and with the Prodrive suspension set up its a nice but firm ride.
Being a daily driver i dont think i want Coilovers so just a simple drop would suffice
What and were is the best place to go get what ever i need
Cheers in advance
Ian
Fancy dropping the scoob a wee bit to give it a better stance over the 18's
02 Prodrive bug so quite firm as it is and with the Prodrive suspension set up its a nice but firm ride.
Being a daily driver i dont think i want Coilovers so just a simple drop would suffice
What and were is the best place to go get what ever i need
Cheers in advance
Ian
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14 June 2011, 09:50 AM
#9
It's actually quite difficult to feel the stops. Don't take that the wrong way.
The Teins are a soft spring too, combine that with ~30mm lowering and any kind of a performing suspension system is lost. Sorry to have a down on the Teins but they are known for it
The Teins are a soft spring too, combine that with ~30mm lowering and any kind of a performing suspension system is lost. Sorry to have a down on the Teins but they are known for it
14 June 2011, 01:04 PM
#10
run teins on mine for 2 years now with no problems, improves the handling over standard and help on track too (obvs coilovers would be better), I would say the ride is fairly firm but I haven't been in a car with eibachs on so cant comment but I thought that the teins were meant to be firmer? 
14 June 2011, 02:08 PM
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Trust me, I know what and where bump stops are, and i've never hit them, they dont lower the car that much.
Had Eibach springs in place previously, and beside lowering the car slightly, they didnt improve the handling enough to be worth it.
Had Eibach springs in place previously, and beside lowering the car slightly, they didnt improve the handling enough to be worth it.
14 June 2011, 10:05 PM
#16
Quoted from NASIOC
"Tein S-Techs are NOT a performance handling modification"
"roll center vs cg height
Quite simply: The tein S-Techs lower the car SO MUCH that your roll center drops farther than your CG. The effect of this is a slight net increase in total amount of roll couple for a given cornering force. Now, the spring rates are increased a little so you don't get as much actual roll, but don't think that the 20% increase in spring rates translates to 20% less roll. You end up with like maye 5% less roll (which is nothing).
camber curve
If you have the linkage removed from the car and you can move it through its range, you will easily see that as you compress the suspension past the point where the control arm is level, the camber starts increasing. This is bad because while the car is rolling in a corner, the outside (heavily loaded tire) needs the camber to be optimal and with the car already sitting too low, when you roll it more, the camber just goes to hell a lot quicker and you ultimately lose grip over a suspension that sits higher. Sure, you can just dial in a lot more static negative camber, but then braking and acceleration out of corners suffer dramatically.
bump travel
At stock ride height, your WRX struts only have about 90mm of bump travel before they hit the bumpstops. Now if you remove 2.4" of bump travel by dropping the suspension, you now have only about 40mm. That is less than 2 inches. Now tell me if you think 2 inches of travel is enough to accomodate hitting even a small bump during cornering... or even it 2" is enough to accomodate rolling in the first place. How much does one side of your car compress in a hard corner? (hint: it's more than 2"). The problem with riding and bumping the bumpstops is that when that happens, the spring rate increases dramatically at that wheel and you end up suddenly overloading the tire's grip. This manifests itself as a car that just won't grip past a certain amount even though it should. A lot of times you will hear S-Tech owners telling you they are not hitting the bumpstops at all. My answer to them is that they just don't know what they are talking about. Hitting the bumpstops is not something that will feel like a sudden hard jolt. In fact, most drivers would be hard pressed to even tell you they hit it. You can read what one professional suspension shop has to say about bumpstops:
http://www.ground-control.com/?D=16a...d3a83c24dd1fa8
All in all, The S-Techs do a GREAT job of doing what they are designed to do. The fact of the matter though is that performance handling is NOT part of their design. They are simply for making your car LOOK stylisticly low. In fact, when you buy S-Techs, you quickly see on the box the words "Style Master" (whereas if you buy any of Tein's coilovers, it says "Handling Master")."
"Tein S-Techs are NOT a performance handling modification"
"roll center vs cg height
Quite simply: The tein S-Techs lower the car SO MUCH that your roll center drops farther than your CG. The effect of this is a slight net increase in total amount of roll couple for a given cornering force. Now, the spring rates are increased a little so you don't get as much actual roll, but don't think that the 20% increase in spring rates translates to 20% less roll. You end up with like maye 5% less roll (which is nothing).
camber curve
If you have the linkage removed from the car and you can move it through its range, you will easily see that as you compress the suspension past the point where the control arm is level, the camber starts increasing. This is bad because while the car is rolling in a corner, the outside (heavily loaded tire) needs the camber to be optimal and with the car already sitting too low, when you roll it more, the camber just goes to hell a lot quicker and you ultimately lose grip over a suspension that sits higher. Sure, you can just dial in a lot more static negative camber, but then braking and acceleration out of corners suffer dramatically.
bump travel
At stock ride height, your WRX struts only have about 90mm of bump travel before they hit the bumpstops. Now if you remove 2.4" of bump travel by dropping the suspension, you now have only about 40mm. That is less than 2 inches. Now tell me if you think 2 inches of travel is enough to accomodate hitting even a small bump during cornering... or even it 2" is enough to accomodate rolling in the first place. How much does one side of your car compress in a hard corner? (hint: it's more than 2"). The problem with riding and bumping the bumpstops is that when that happens, the spring rate increases dramatically at that wheel and you end up suddenly overloading the tire's grip. This manifests itself as a car that just won't grip past a certain amount even though it should. A lot of times you will hear S-Tech owners telling you they are not hitting the bumpstops at all. My answer to them is that they just don't know what they are talking about. Hitting the bumpstops is not something that will feel like a sudden hard jolt. In fact, most drivers would be hard pressed to even tell you they hit it. You can read what one professional suspension shop has to say about bumpstops:
http://www.ground-control.com/?D=16a...d3a83c24dd1fa8
All in all, The S-Techs do a GREAT job of doing what they are designed to do. The fact of the matter though is that performance handling is NOT part of their design. They are simply for making your car LOOK stylisticly low. In fact, when you buy S-Techs, you quickly see on the box the words "Style Master" (whereas if you buy any of Tein's coilovers, it says "Handling Master")."
16 June 2011, 12:32 AM
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21 June 2011, 05:50 PM
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Ive got a P plate 96 model impreza, its been lowered before i brought it, ive purchased some new 18" rims but now the back arches are rubbing on the tyres, so i need to raise it by 10mm, but im struggling to find out what the height of a standard spring is, so i can compare that to the springs ive got on, then i can purchase something in between!!! any ideas guys??
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