(Another) Body Roll Question
23 August 2010, 02:56 PM
#1
(Another) Body Roll Question
I've read a LOT of posts on here this morning regarding ways of reducing body roll and sharpening up handling of the car.
I have a 2001 WRX bug, and so far have fitted new Prodrive springs, a rear 22mm Whiteline adj ARB (on middle setting), Powerflex solid rear drop links and a front STI strut brace, with Prodrive geometry settings dialed in.
Tyres are 225/40 R18 Vreddies with 36psi at the front and 34 at the rear.
Having recently had a ride in my mate's Porsche Boxster, I would dearly love it if I can get mine to corner as flat (or nearly as flat) as that; very little roll in comparison to mine.
The car's knocking on for 80,000 miles now, and so I'm considering ditching the shocks for something new.
I've read conflicting reports on here; some people saying to reduce body roll fit front and rear bars (consensus of 24mm rear, 22mm front), some say fit aftermarket shocks, and others say go for coilovers.
I'm after a good fast road spec, not too crashy over potholes. TBH after fitting 18" wheels and Prodrive springs it's been a bit hard, but I could still live with a similar ride - anything worse and I'd have to reconsider.
Would anyone be willing to offer up some advice on which way I should go?
Knowing the issue with knocking newage shocks (esp. STI ones) I'm not exactly crazy on the idea of buying a second hand set, and similarly, if I only need to spend £150 odd on a front ARB I'd rather do that.
Hoping that those of you with the experience first hand will be able to assist! Cheers
I have a 2001 WRX bug, and so far have fitted new Prodrive springs, a rear 22mm Whiteline adj ARB (on middle setting), Powerflex solid rear drop links and a front STI strut brace, with Prodrive geometry settings dialed in.
Tyres are 225/40 R18 Vreddies with 36psi at the front and 34 at the rear.
Having recently had a ride in my mate's Porsche Boxster, I would dearly love it if I can get mine to corner as flat (or nearly as flat) as that; very little roll in comparison to mine.
The car's knocking on for 80,000 miles now, and so I'm considering ditching the shocks for something new.
I've read conflicting reports on here; some people saying to reduce body roll fit front and rear bars (consensus of 24mm rear, 22mm front), some say fit aftermarket shocks, and others say go for coilovers.
I'm after a good fast road spec, not too crashy over potholes. TBH after fitting 18" wheels and Prodrive springs it's been a bit hard, but I could still live with a similar ride - anything worse and I'd have to reconsider.
Would anyone be willing to offer up some advice on which way I should go?
Knowing the issue with knocking newage shocks (esp. STI ones) I'm not exactly crazy on the idea of buying a second hand set, and similarly, if I only need to spend £150 odd on a front ARB I'd rather do that.
Hoping that those of you with the experience first hand will be able to assist! Cheers
Last edited by MrNoisy; 23 August 2010 at 02:59 PM.
23 August 2010, 03:10 PM
#2
The only advice I can give you is £150 isn't enough 
STi strut bars are pretty thin and a 22mm rear ARbar will aide handling more than sort the roll.
As a minimum you need to do the front and rear ARbars and fit solid drop links to make these bars work as hard as possible. You need proper solid internally reinforced strut bars to complete the box.
Other considerations are the pitch and movement of the heavy parts of your car (engine and drivetrain) which would benefit from firming up to the chassis such as stiffer engine mounts, gear box mount, rear diff, front subframe etc.
Most people seem to jump in and buy coils which is fair enough, but I run the above bracing with standard STi springs on my classic and it's solid !
STi strut bars are pretty thin and a 22mm rear ARbar will aide handling more than sort the roll.
As a minimum you need to do the front and rear ARbars and fit solid drop links to make these bars work as hard as possible. You need proper solid internally reinforced strut bars to complete the box.
Other considerations are the pitch and movement of the heavy parts of your car (engine and drivetrain) which would benefit from firming up to the chassis such as stiffer engine mounts, gear box mount, rear diff, front subframe etc.
Most people seem to jump in and buy coils which is fair enough, but I run the above bracing with standard STi springs on my classic and it's solid !
23 August 2010, 05:32 PM
#3
The only advice I can give you is £150 isn't enough
STi strut bars are pretty thin and a 22mm rear ARbar will aide handling more than sort the roll.
As a minimum you need to do the front and rear ARbars and fit solid drop links to make these bars work as hard as possible. You need proper solid internally reinforced strut bars to complete the box.
Other considerations are the pitch and movement of the heavy parts of your car (engine and drivetrain) which would benefit from firming up to the chassis such as stiffer engine mounts, gear box mount, rear diff, front subframe etc.
Most people seem to jump in and buy coils which is fair enough, but I run the above bracing with standard STi springs on my classic and it's solid !
STi strut bars are pretty thin and a 22mm rear ARbar will aide handling more than sort the roll.
As a minimum you need to do the front and rear ARbars and fit solid drop links to make these bars work as hard as possible. You need proper solid internally reinforced strut bars to complete the box.
Other considerations are the pitch and movement of the heavy parts of your car (engine and drivetrain) which would benefit from firming up to the chassis such as stiffer engine mounts, gear box mount, rear diff, front subframe etc.
Most people seem to jump in and buy coils which is fair enough, but I run the above bracing with standard STi springs on my classic and it's solid !
Front newage have steel links already, but no idea on the std rollbar size.
From what I'd read in here, I thought the general consensus seemed to be that strut bars make far less difference on newage than classic because the chassis was much stiffer, would you agree with that?
Re the ARB's are you saying that a 22mm at the rear is not enough to cure the body roll my WRX is suffering from?
If so, what will make the most difference in eliminating it, because I can't really budget for both at the mo!
Totally agree it improves the handling and cures the understeer, although I have noted that the back has a little more tendency to make a break for it if you lift off unexpectedly!
Last edited by MrNoisy; 23 August 2010 at 05:34 PM. Reason: .
23 August 2010, 10:05 PM
#4
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I have a 04 wrx with standard shocks etc. Fitted a forge strut which tbh didn't really notice anything.
Just fitted whiteline 24mm rear arb with droplinks, set to middle setting and took round the country roads that my old 96 sti use to love and my god I can notice the difference every time I drive it
I'm not currently thinking about the front arb as some have said your just adding back to it.
Just fitted whiteline 24mm rear arb with droplinks, set to middle setting and took round the country roads that my old 96 sti use to love and my god I can notice the difference every time I drive it
I'm not currently thinking about the front arb as some have said your just adding back to it.
23 August 2010, 11:49 PM
#5
Back to what ? understeer ? The OP is talking about body roll which can only be reduced when using ARB's by increasing their size and the type of drop link used in conjunction.
Understeer or indeed oversteer is balanced out by the careful selection and adjustment of whatever ARB size split you decide suits your driving style best whilst giving you maximum roll reduction In the summer I am running hard 24 rear hard 22 front but come winter I will shift this back to middle 24 rear.
I bet your car would feel even better again on a 22mm adj front bar !
Understeer or indeed oversteer is balanced out by the careful selection and adjustment of whatever ARB size split you decide suits your driving style best whilst giving you maximum roll reduction
In the summer I am running hard 24 rear hard 22 front but come winter I will shift this back to middle 24 rear.I bet your car would feel even better again on a 22mm adj front bar !
24 August 2010, 05:17 AM
#6
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For £150, used STI springs will sort a lot of roll (and can be had for circa £30), they are about 50% stiffer than WRX and therfore about 25% stiffer than prodrive, but at 80K the struts will be well past their best (and the WRX struts arn't good to start with), so while it busts the £150, a bit I would say, new decent struts with STi takeoff springs, selling the Prodrive springs should see a net cost of about £300.
Simon
Simon
24 August 2010, 09:46 AM
#7
Originally Posted by 53WRX
Back to what ? understeer ? The OP is talking about body roll which can only be reduced when using ARB's by increasing their size and the type of drop link used in conjunction.
Understeer or indeed oversteer is balanced out by the careful selection and adjustment of whatever ARB size split you decide suits your driving style best whilst giving you maximum roll reduction In the summer I am running hard 24 rear hard 22 front but come winter I will shift this back to middle 24 rear.
I bet your car would feel even better again on a 22mm adj front bar !
Understeer or indeed oversteer is balanced out by the careful selection and adjustment of whatever ARB size split you decide suits your driving style best whilst giving you maximum roll reduction In the summer I am running hard 24 rear hard 22 front but come winter I will shift this back to middle 24 rear.
I bet your car would feel even better again on a 22mm adj front bar !
That said, I could easily tell the difference when I'd fitted the rear ARB on medium setting as the car understeered a lot less and felt more planted. I've just started noticing more recently (and perhaps it's because I drive it a little faster nowadays now that I've had the car a little longer) that the body roll at the front is a little more than I'd like when cornering at speed.
If the front ARB would only partially solve this, but fitting better struts or coilovers would eliminate it, I'd probably go for that.
I'm not looking for a track day special, just something quick from point A to point B that won't break my spine going over a pothole
For £150, used STI springs will sort a lot of roll (and can be had for circa £30), they are about 50% stiffer than WRX and therfore about 25% stiffer than prodrive, but at 80K the struts will be well past their best (and the WRX struts arn't good to start with), so while it busts the £150, a bit I would say, new decent struts with STi takeoff springs, selling the Prodrive springs should see a net cost of about £300.
Simon
Simon
In your honest opinion, if I'm not planning to track the car, but just use it for a bit of fast road, am I better waiting, spending a little more and buying some of the BC coilovers when Bren @ Apex next does a group buy, or saving my money and sourcing a low mileage set of struts (and if so, were you inferring I buy 2nd hand STI ones or would you recommend another manufacturer?)
Thanks for the input all
Last edited by MrNoisy; 24 August 2010 at 09:49 AM.
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25 August 2010, 07:54 AM
#9
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1. Body roll should be controlled by replacing the springs and dampers...
2. Body roll CAN be controlled using ARB's if the above isn't an option.
3. ARB's are an easy fix, I run 22mm both ends and it has more grip and less roll.
Had to replace the 7 year old OEM stuff due to the effect of 400 bhp.
All IMHO.
dunx
2. Body roll CAN be controlled using ARB's if the above isn't an option.
3. ARB's are an easy fix, I run 22mm both ends and it has more grip and less roll.
Had to replace the 7 year old OEM stuff due to the effect of 400 bhp.
All IMHO.
dunx
25 August 2010, 12:24 PM
#10
1. Body roll should be controlled by replacing the springs and dampers...
2. Body roll CAN be controlled using ARB's if the above isn't an option.
3. ARB's are an easy fix, I run 22mm both ends and it has more grip and less roll.
Had to replace the 7 year old OEM stuff due to the effect of 400 bhp.
All IMHO.
dunx
2. Body roll CAN be controlled using ARB's if the above isn't an option.
3. ARB's are an easy fix, I run 22mm both ends and it has more grip and less roll.
Had to replace the 7 year old OEM stuff due to the effect of 400 bhp.
All IMHO.
dunx
I can get hold of a front 22mm adjustable ARB for around £125 at the moment.
The BC coilovers BR series appear to start at £679 + fitting + geometry, so I'll give the front bar a go first given that it's a much cheaper option.
Any tips on the settings?
Cheers!
25 August 2010, 12:38 PM
#11
1. Body roll should be controlled by replacing the springs and dampers...
2. Body roll CAN be controlled using ARB's if the above isn't an option.
3. ARB's are an easy fix, I run 22mm both ends and it has more grip and less roll.
Had to replace the 7 year old OEM stuff due to the effect of 400 bhp.
All IMHO.
dunx
2. Body roll CAN be controlled using ARB's if the above isn't an option.
3. ARB's are an easy fix, I run 22mm both ends and it has more grip and less roll.
Had to replace the 7 year old OEM stuff due to the effect of 400 bhp.
All IMHO.
dunx
If you already have the PD springs and only £150 to spend a front ARB is the only option You also need to consider roll centre adjustment with some springs at which point I fall asleep Set the rear to medium and the front to hard and see how you get on, I have a summer and winter preference such is the ease of chop and changing the hole.
25 August 2010, 05:13 PM
#12
If you already have the PD springs and only £150 to spend a front ARB is the only option You also need to consider roll centre adjustment with some springs at which point I fall asleep Set the rear to medium and the front to hard and see how you get on, I have a summer and winter preference such is the ease of chop and changing the hole.
Cheers guys.
I assume the settings you've given there are summer - what do you use in winter?
Dunx - what about you?
Last edited by MrNoisy; 25 August 2010 at 05:50 PM.
25 August 2010, 10:23 PM
#13
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Mine was an STI setup, so stiff at both ends, nice and neutral except for oversteer on track where you ( should !) push the car much harder...
HTH
dunx
HTH
dunx
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