Leda B - comfort/settings
09 October 1999, 04:31 PM
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I understand that standard spring rate for Leda B suspension recommended by Scoobysport is 275lb front and 225lb rear. I also understand that the car is lowered approx. 35mm front and 25mm rear. Further, it has been explained to me that (in comparison to the STi 4-door) suspension character and behaviour, properly set up LEDA on settings for 'comfort' rather than track will not only be no worse in comfort and harshness of ride compared to standard, but also even more comfortable, let alone much better in every other respect.
Could someone driving Leda B kindly shed some light on this, please? Also, what are the rates of standard STi springs? I thought I have seen some values somewhere which are considerably lower than Leda springs, but I could be wrong. In my years of certain experience, the combination of a not too hard spring and adjustable damper was the best one could want for fast road use. I do not expect theories and laws of physics to change too often.
The essence of this query is the fact that I very much wish to achieve the best roadholding and overall behaviour of a good suspension package, but, at the same time, do not want to feel I need to stop after 30 miles on typical UK road.
Thank you in advance for your feedback.
q.
Could someone driving Leda B kindly shed some light on this, please? Also, what are the rates of standard STi springs? I thought I have seen some values somewhere which are considerably lower than Leda springs, but I could be wrong. In my years of certain experience, the combination of a not too hard spring and adjustable damper was the best one could want for fast road use. I do not expect theories and laws of physics to change too often.
The essence of this query is the fact that I very much wish to achieve the best roadholding and overall behaviour of a good suspension package, but, at the same time, do not want to feel I need to stop after 30 miles on typical UK road.
Thank you in advance for your feedback.
q.
09 October 1999, 06:55 PM
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quattro,
I can't answer the technical aspects of your post but you may find my thougts of some use.
I recently fitted Leda B, and I must say that it has transformed the driving/handling characteristics of my STi V. I was very tentative about changing the standard suspension to Leda B because I live in the country and the roads, as you may guess, are not exactly smooth. My main concern was that I would be feeling more bumps etc and hence the ride quality would not be very good.
After having Leda B fitted, and run in on damper settings of 5 front and 4 back, I adjusted the dampers to 10 front and 8 back, thinking that this would be a compromise on ride quality against performance. This setting proved to offer exceptional handling, and the ride quality was still there.
After using these settings for a couple of weeks, I noticed that at speed, the dampers were not catching the second bounce (technical term
), so I adjusted to 12 front and 10 rear. This setting for me, is superb, I travel on rough roads on a daily basis, and, although the car is alot stiffer (and obviously I feel the bumps a little more at slow speeds), the ride quality is still OK, but the handling is now unbelievable.
I can honestly say, IMHO, the Leda B gives everything you could want, it does transform the car, hardly any body roll, superd stability round fast and slow corners, etc etc, go for it, I'm sure you will not be dissapointed!
Hope this helps,
Dave
I can't answer the technical aspects of your post but you may find my thougts of some use.
I recently fitted Leda B, and I must say that it has transformed the driving/handling characteristics of my STi V. I was very tentative about changing the standard suspension to Leda B because I live in the country and the roads, as you may guess, are not exactly smooth. My main concern was that I would be feeling more bumps etc and hence the ride quality would not be very good.
After having Leda B fitted, and run in on damper settings of 5 front and 4 back, I adjusted the dampers to 10 front and 8 back, thinking that this would be a compromise on ride quality against performance. This setting proved to offer exceptional handling, and the ride quality was still there.
After using these settings for a couple of weeks, I noticed that at speed, the dampers were not catching the second bounce (technical term
), so I adjusted to 12 front and 10 rear. This setting for me, is superb, I travel on rough roads on a daily basis, and, although the car is alot stiffer (and obviously I feel the bumps a little more at slow speeds), the ride quality is still OK, but the handling is now unbelievable.I can honestly say, IMHO, the Leda B gives everything you could want, it does transform the car, hardly any body roll, superd stability round fast and slow corners, etc etc, go for it, I'm sure you will not be dissapointed!
Hope this helps,
Dave
11 October 1999, 11:02 AM
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I asked PC about how the spring rates compare to standard, I seem to recall figures as big as 70% being mentioned, but they are not directly comparable to standard as the standard ("softer") springs are progressively wound, whereas the leda is a constant rate. I can say that Leda 'C' is a fantastic improvement over standard wrx suspension, and that the ride quality and control is much improved when driven over typical british (read: abysmal) roads.
Moray
Moray
11 October 1999, 07:12 PM
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Hi Quattro,
I've been driving an MY99 PPP with Leda C since June 99, and cover about 2,000 miles per month on typical British roads mainly on business, so often I am just trying to get from A to B in heavy traffic but I am always trying find the ultimate A/B road on route. Put succinctly, in my opinion the suspension is excellent, even sitting behind the wheel for 3 to 4 hours at a time (M25 excepted). I run the settings pretty low (6 front 5 rear) for everyday use, and the handling is awesome even at these values.
My own experience leads me to surmise that front/rear settings on the road between 0 to 12 are liveable with on a day to day basis and do not cause discomfort over long travel distances even pushing hard on A/B roads. Inevitable you can get thrown about in the seat (wishing for a four point harness) but the car never seems to remotely leave contact with the road, or make you feel like you need to stop for a rest (quite the opposite in fact).
Comfort is, however, a very personal thing, but I find that this can be accommodated within the adjustability of the damper settings for all occasions.
Steve
I've been driving an MY99 PPP with Leda C since June 99, and cover about 2,000 miles per month on typical British roads mainly on business, so often I am just trying to get from A to B in heavy traffic but I am always trying find the ultimate A/B road on route. Put succinctly, in my opinion the suspension is excellent, even sitting behind the wheel for 3 to 4 hours at a time (M25 excepted). I run the settings pretty low (6 front 5 rear) for everyday use, and the handling is awesome even at these values.
My own experience leads me to surmise that front/rear settings on the road between 0 to 12 are liveable with on a day to day basis and do not cause discomfort over long travel distances even pushing hard on A/B roads. Inevitable you can get thrown about in the seat (wishing for a four point harness) but the car never seems to remotely leave contact with the road, or make you feel like you need to stop for a rest (quite the opposite in fact).
Comfort is, however, a very personal thing, but I find that this can be accommodated within the adjustability of the damper settings for all occasions.
Steve
13 October 1999, 10:34 AM
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Just giong by the Scoobysport website, I must confess to not knowing a huge amount on the subject.
Option A (SCCA "Stock" class) USA only
Adjustable 24 stage adjustable dampers, stock springs.
Option B (fast road, track)
Adjustable 24 stage coil over units with +/- 50mm ride height
adjustment.
Option C (fast road, track, rally)
As option B but pressurised with externally mounted gas
reservoirs.
Is the £450 odd price difference between Leda 'B' and 'C' really noticable on the road? I cant help but thinking that road, and even occasional track use would not necesitate the need for Leda 'C'...... or is it just the 'pose' factor?
Also, what is Coil-over?
James.
[This message has been edited by James_Harvey (edited 13-10-1999).]
Option A (SCCA "Stock" class) USA only
Adjustable 24 stage adjustable dampers, stock springs.
Option B (fast road, track)
Adjustable 24 stage coil over units with +/- 50mm ride height
adjustment.
Option C (fast road, track, rally)
As option B but pressurised with externally mounted gas
reservoirs.
Is the £450 odd price difference between Leda 'B' and 'C' really noticable on the road? I cant help but thinking that road, and even occasional track use would not necesitate the need for Leda 'C'...... or is it just the 'pose' factor?
Also, what is Coil-over?
James.
[This message has been edited by James_Harvey (edited 13-10-1999).]
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13 October 1999, 06:04 PM
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James
I believe that the purpose of the gas reservoir (for Leda C) is to keep separate air and fluid in the unit, which if mixed (one assumes by continuous and arduous movement) could deteriorate the performance of the fluid and thus the consistency of the damper. I am not sure whether the pressurized gas also provides an air cushion to the movement of the fluid, and therefore has a further effect on damping. Hopefully somebody will correct this opinion if wrong. If this is the case then one can imagine the number of movements in a shock absorber per second, and perhaps (even on road use) begin to understand that there may be an improvement in performance to be had.
I think Coil Over simply means that the coil is over the strut/damper?!
Is it worth the extra money? If you want the best YES, and it sure does look cool!!!!!!!!.
You read a great deal on these pages about people trying to improve handling performance, and "toying" with anti-roll bars, strut bracing, anti lift kits, bushes etc etc. For my experience the Scoobysport Leda C package ensures (without doubt, concern or second thought) that you car will handle better than if you'd "toyed" with all the above items.
Steve
P.S how do you add the message icons etc to these messages.
I believe that the purpose of the gas reservoir (for Leda C) is to keep separate air and fluid in the unit, which if mixed (one assumes by continuous and arduous movement) could deteriorate the performance of the fluid and thus the consistency of the damper. I am not sure whether the pressurized gas also provides an air cushion to the movement of the fluid, and therefore has a further effect on damping. Hopefully somebody will correct this opinion if wrong. If this is the case then one can imagine the number of movements in a shock absorber per second, and perhaps (even on road use) begin to understand that there may be an improvement in performance to be had.
I think Coil Over simply means that the coil is over the strut/damper?!
Is it worth the extra money? If you want the best YES, and it sure does look cool!!!!!!!!.
You read a great deal on these pages about people trying to improve handling performance, and "toying" with anti-roll bars, strut bracing, anti lift kits, bushes etc etc. For my experience the Scoobysport Leda C package ensures (without doubt, concern or second thought) that you car will handle better than if you'd "toyed" with all the above items.
Steve
P.S how do you add the message icons etc to these messages.
13 October 1999, 09:19 PM
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Thanks to all those who cared to offer feedback. Pleased to advise IT HAS BEEN DONE and it is 100% like having a different car. After a while I will settle down (and the suspension will bed in, presume) and start absorbing all that has changed (for the better, of course!). As I have always been saying (just for 25 years or so), there is so much more to a car than the engine or an operated ecu.
Almost perfectly comfortable regards
q.
Almost perfectly comfortable regards
q.
13 October 1999, 11:35 PM
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Maybe not directly related to this topic but anyway here goes: I am not happy with the lack of straight line stability of my MY99. Only changes are Toyo T1-S (17in.) and neg. front camber. Could it be Leda even cures this symptom or should I try better quality suspension bushes? The car seems to wander (geometry checked twice), even on good roads for no apparent reason. This also means it is affected by crosswinds.
Jerry
Jerry
14 October 1999, 12:39 AM
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Nice to have feedback an input. To begin with, the settings have been left at 8 (front) and 2 (rear). This was a result of me requesting COMFORTABLE ride. I intend to raise the rear to 4 even before it softens after some miles as Steve has suggested.
A full report WILL follow in due course as I am waiting for one little thing that is nothing but annoying either disappear while everything accumulates some miles or... Nothing functional, just a byproduct of no consequence. Would be interesting to see if those with more experience with Leda suspensions will immediately guess what I may be referring to and make me feel better or worse.
q.
A full report WILL follow in due course as I am waiting for one little thing that is nothing but annoying either disappear while everything accumulates some miles or... Nothing functional, just a byproduct of no consequence. Would be interesting to see if those with more experience with Leda suspensions will immediately guess what I may be referring to and make me feel better or worse.
q.
14 October 1999, 09:59 AM
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Im not 100% sure about this, so feel free to flame me if Im wrong, but, I think remote reservoirs are used as they effectively add more fluid to the damper, so that under hard use, the temps do not get as high since there is more fluid to absorb the heat.
?
robski
?
robski
14 October 1999, 11:45 AM
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Quattro
The ride softens up quite considerably after a few hundred miles.
kalg01
I have found that changing the toe in affects straight line stability (and or tyre make). Try the settings at 0 equal and test, then toe in 1 to 2 mm and test. I found 0 equal to give better straight line stability with Leda C (1.5 degree negative camber and 17" P Zero's) , but toed in seems to create more even tyre wear (and feels more grippy) but perhaps is not quite so stable in a straight line.
James
Can't work the UBB codes out, I'm not really computer literate.
Steve
The ride softens up quite considerably after a few hundred miles.
kalg01
I have found that changing the toe in affects straight line stability (and or tyre make). Try the settings at 0 equal and test, then toe in 1 to 2 mm and test. I found 0 equal to give better straight line stability with Leda C (1.5 degree negative camber and 17" P Zero's) , but toed in seems to create more even tyre wear (and feels more grippy) but perhaps is not quite so stable in a straight line.
James
Can't work the UBB codes out, I'm not really computer literate.
Steve
14 October 1999, 11:45 AM
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Mr Prockter,
The point of *toying* with things like AR bars, anti-lift kits etc is to get the car to get the basics right on the car before going to the expense of completely new suspension. Just like any job, preparation is the key - if you don't bother to sand down old flakey paint work then any new coat will still look cruddy - just slightly less so.
If you have replaced your suspension on an almost new car then you probably don't need to worry too much about bushes etc as yours won't be very worn. If like me, you have an MY96 then they are worn and the rear anti-roll bar is pencil thin. Repplacing these things makes a huge difference in their own. I do plan a suspension upgrade and I'm sure I will see another big difference in handling - I just want to get the basics right first. There is more to suspension than just the springs and dampers...
Not having a go - just trying to enlighten...
Dave
The point of *toying* with things like AR bars, anti-lift kits etc is to get the car to get the basics right on the car before going to the expense of completely new suspension. Just like any job, preparation is the key - if you don't bother to sand down old flakey paint work then any new coat will still look cruddy - just slightly less so.
If you have replaced your suspension on an almost new car then you probably don't need to worry too much about bushes etc as yours won't be very worn. If like me, you have an MY96 then they are worn and the rear anti-roll bar is pencil thin. Repplacing these things makes a huge difference in their own. I do plan a suspension upgrade and I'm sure I will see another big difference in handling - I just want to get the basics right first. There is more to suspension than just the springs and dampers...
Not having a go - just trying to enlighten...
Dave
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