Track setup
19 July 2015, 06:11 PM
#1
Track setup
I'm looking to replace my BC BR series coilovers for something more suited to trackdays and sprints. I'm not looking to break the £1500 mark so no Ohlins for me
Any suggestions welcome, especially from anyone who has had made the same move
Any suggestions welcome, especially from anyone who has had made the same move
21 July 2015, 10:49 AM
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If you can manage a little more (£1650), we can get you a set of MeisterR GT1 at that price.
Fully hand build in the UK, with CNC internal made in house at our workshop Essex.
Designed by Black Art Design who are responsible for range of OEM / Race / Pike Peak cars with podium finish.
These will provide more comfort, as well as better response on the road.
The suspension are also design to take on track day and spring with a easy 1-way adjustment.
We finished the MLR Sprint Series with a set of GT1 prototype runner up in the ClassB championship.
The GT1 coilovers also come with a lifetime warranty on the damper.
If the damper ever leak, we will rebuild it free of charge the long as there aren't any physical damage.
The CNC shaft seal used on the GT1 are rated to 400 Bars of pressure (Normal damper wouldn't exceed 40 bars), they are designed not to fail.
So just a thought, as we intend to pitch the MeisterR GT1 as a cheaper and better suspensions.
Jerrick
Fully hand build in the UK, with CNC internal made in house at our workshop Essex.
Designed by Black Art Design who are responsible for range of OEM / Race / Pike Peak cars with podium finish.
These will provide more comfort, as well as better response on the road.
The suspension are also design to take on track day and spring with a easy 1-way adjustment.
We finished the MLR Sprint Series with a set of GT1 prototype runner up in the ClassB championship.
The GT1 coilovers also come with a lifetime warranty on the damper.
If the damper ever leak, we will rebuild it free of charge the long as there aren't any physical damage.
The CNC shaft seal used on the GT1 are rated to 400 Bars of pressure (Normal damper wouldn't exceed 40 bars), they are designed not to fail.
So just a thought, as we intend to pitch the MeisterR GT1 as a cheaper and better suspensions.
Jerrick
21 July 2015, 01:26 PM
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Talk of track and sprint, but no mention of spring rates...
I'm guessing the current springs are too soft as BC BR usually come with 6kg/mm front, 5kg/mm rears.
A new set of springs is £120, and these coilovers can take stiffer springs.
I'm guessing the current springs are too soft as BC BR usually come with 6kg/mm front, 5kg/mm rears.
A new set of springs is £120, and these coilovers can take stiffer springs.
21 July 2015, 01:30 PM
#7
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If you can manage a little more (£1650), we can get you a set of MeisterR GT1 at that price.
Fully hand build in the UK, with CNC internal made in house at our workshop Essex.
Designed by Black Art Design who are responsible for range of OEM / Race / Pike Peak cars with podium finish.
These will provide more comfort, as well as better response on the road.
The suspension are also design to take on track day and spring with a easy 1-way adjustment.
We finished the MLR Sprint Series with a set of GT1 prototype runner up in the ClassB championship.
The GT1 coilovers also come with a lifetime warranty on the damper.
If the damper ever leak, we will rebuild it free of charge the long as there aren't any physical damage.
The CNC shaft seal used on the GT1 are rated to 400 Bars of pressure (Normal damper wouldn't exceed 40 bars), they are designed not to fail.
So just a thought, as we intend to pitch the MeisterR GT1 as a cheaper and better suspensions.
Jerrick
Fully hand build in the UK, with CNC internal made in house at our workshop Essex.
Designed by Black Art Design who are responsible for range of OEM / Race / Pike Peak cars with podium finish.
These will provide more comfort, as well as better response on the road.
The suspension are also design to take on track day and spring with a easy 1-way adjustment.
We finished the MLR Sprint Series with a set of GT1 prototype runner up in the ClassB championship.
The GT1 coilovers also come with a lifetime warranty on the damper.
If the damper ever leak, we will rebuild it free of charge the long as there aren't any physical damage.
The CNC shaft seal used on the GT1 are rated to 400 Bars of pressure (Normal damper wouldn't exceed 40 bars), they are designed not to fail.
So just a thought, as we intend to pitch the MeisterR GT1 as a cheaper and better suspensions.
Jerrick
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21 July 2015, 04:36 PM
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Well, technically hand assembled as most of the item are from CNC machine.
The accuracy may go down a bit if were where to beat the piston out of solid aluminium by hand
Is this a road driven track car, or going to be a pure sprint / track car that will be trailered to the track?
Because while springs rate makes a difference, the biggest gain for going on track will be the damper force change.
Specifically, it is the compression force change that is going to give that sharp steering response you want, as well as the increase traction by working the tyres harder.
Changing to a higher springs rate will reduce maximum body motion, but it wouldn't increase the response you want on the track.
If the car is road driven then you also need to choose the springs rate base on that, because the last thing you want is for the suspension to not find traction on a cold wet day on a roundabout.
Jerrick
The accuracy may go down a bit if were where to beat the piston out of solid aluminium by hand
Because while springs rate makes a difference, the biggest gain for going on track will be the damper force change.
Specifically, it is the compression force change that is going to give that sharp steering response you want, as well as the increase traction by working the tyres harder.
Changing to a higher springs rate will reduce maximum body motion, but it wouldn't increase the response you want on the track.
If the car is road driven then you also need to choose the springs rate base on that, because the last thing you want is for the suspension to not find traction on a cold wet day on a roundabout.
Jerrick
21 July 2015, 05:00 PM
#11
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21 July 2015, 05:05 PM
#12
The car is currently a weekend trackday car but my plans are to eventually sprint and hillclimb it. It's on road legal track tires so I drive it to and from the venues. I don't really want to be buying twice ie, getting different spring rates if eventually I'm going to need an upgrade due to the limitations of the dampers being that they are entry level, hence asking what other options I have.
21 July 2015, 05:06 PM
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Jerrick,
The OP stated "something more suited to trackdays and sprints." So your first generic salesman post talked about "more comfort, as well as better response on the road" Not really targeted at the original post.
Although you did say "The suspension are also design to take on track day and spring with a easy 1-way adjustment."
1 way adjustable? Like what he already has...
I've got Eibach motorsport springs on BC BR on a road-driven track car, it doesn't lose grip on "on a cold wet day on a roundabout". Between the various FWD, 4WD, and RWD track cars I've been involved with all of them have performed better on track with higher spring rates, all have been road driven. The damping can be adjusted to suit the conditions.
If you are to mention £1500+ suspension kits & track use, at least suggest some spring rates based on the intended use.
From the CyberSpeed shop:
"£1,650.00
MeisterR GT1 Coilovers:
Custom build available.
Please put down the require info in the note when ordering:
Car Make:
Car Model:
Usage: Fast Road / Track / Race"
^ that's a little vague no? I think more information is required
Your main website has no GT1 option listed for Impreza GD at all.
Lets hear back from Kedlestone about what is currently fitted to the car & go from there.
The OP stated "something more suited to trackdays and sprints." So your first generic salesman post talked about "more comfort, as well as better response on the road" Not really targeted at the original post.
Although you did say "The suspension are also design to take on track day and spring with a easy 1-way adjustment."
1 way adjustable? Like what he already has...
I've got Eibach motorsport springs on BC BR on a road-driven track car, it doesn't lose grip on "on a cold wet day on a roundabout". Between the various FWD, 4WD, and RWD track cars I've been involved with all of them have performed better on track with higher spring rates, all have been road driven. The damping can be adjusted to suit the conditions.
If you are to mention £1500+ suspension kits & track use, at least suggest some spring rates based on the intended use.
From the CyberSpeed shop:
"£1,650.00
MeisterR GT1 Coilovers:
Custom build available.
Please put down the require info in the note when ordering:
Car Make:
Car Model:
Usage: Fast Road / Track / Race"
^ that's a little vague no? I think more information is required
Your main website has no GT1 option listed for Impreza GD at all.
Lets hear back from Kedlestone about what is currently fitted to the car & go from there.
21 July 2015, 06:51 PM
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Right, let me explain why I ask the few questions above because it all ties in to everything.
Stiffer suspension isn't necessary a "better" suspensions, it is all to do with what the car is used for, and what parts is on the car... mainly the tyres.
The suspension job is to get the tyres to generate as much traction as possible, so tyres is the base of the entire setup.
When you work out springs rate on a car, you got to look at the wheel frequency.
The wheel frequency is what the wheel see from the springs rate after the goes through the suspension (motion ratio), so the GD being a Macpherson strut will have a near to 1:1 ratio, where other cars with bigger motion ratio may only see half of that at the wheel.
On a road car, you want to stick to 2.0Hz or under, where you can go higher on a race car.
The thing is you got to keep things "safe" for a road car, even if it goes on track.
So I try to stay under 2.0Hz when I hear "road car", where if I know the car will be trailer to track, I can push the wheel frequency up higher a bit.
Now, the biggest thing about 1-way adjustable is "what" it adjust.
You want to keep the compression:rebound ratio under at 1:3 ratio for most fast road car, and down to a 1:2 ratio for track car.
The issue you see with many 1-way adjustable is that it doesn't adjust the compression enough though out the adjustments, and by the time you go to full stiff you see a 1:4 or even 1:5 ratio.
The reason the GT1 have a "build" info is because technically speaking it is a custom build unit.
We have different compression valving suited for fast road / track / race, as well as rebound valving adjusted from 3kg/mm to 18kg/mm springs rate.
So we can set the springs rate for the intended purposes, and valve the damper accordingly.
The thing many got to remember is that damping adjustment range have to be meaningful, you want to be able to hit the 60% to 80% critical damping for your fast road use, as well as hitting your 80% to 100% critical damping for track use.
You can always run higher springs rate, but you aren't getting the most out of the car until you are running close to that 100% critical damping and have good compression force to work the tyres; that is what the adjustments of the GT1 damper are designed to do.
The thing is comfort as well as performance all come in hand in hand if you can engineer the solution for it.
We have a system we call the "F.A.S.T." system, which is a range of sequentially lined holes on the other edge of the piston.
The function is to provide a "controlled" bleed to the suspension system.
This provide comfort because it allow the damper to react to smaller suspension movement (driving on the motorway), but it also increase performance because it introduce "progressive" loading of the tyres and this allow the tyres to initiate grip and therefore provide more traction.
All this happen dynamically in millisecond, but it all makes a difference in how a car feel and drive.
The best example I can give for what the owners need will be similar to what Steven Peeler was running in an Evo6 RS.
It was a road driven MLR Sprint Series race car.
The wheel frequency was a little over 2.0Hz, but not out of this world and he does drive it on the road.
It is complaint to drive on the road, and at the same time it was very stable on the stiffer setting when in sprint event.
It took runner up in the most competitive ClassB championship within a sea of Ohlins, Nitron, and JRZ on its first outing with the MeisterR GT1 prototype.
Can we run higher springs rate? Sure we can.
But the car road performance will deteriorate, and it wouldn't provide much better performance at the sprint because you are limited to what tyres you can do.
If you aren't running racing slick tyres, you should not be using springs rate that are design to run with slick.
I hope that explain a bit what I was saying... it is long and technical, but that is what the GT1 is about.
It wasn't something we pull together with good marketing, it was CAD design by Black Art Design who build suspension for Pike Peak Race car.
Jerrick
Stiffer suspension isn't necessary a "better" suspensions, it is all to do with what the car is used for, and what parts is on the car... mainly the tyres.
The suspension job is to get the tyres to generate as much traction as possible, so tyres is the base of the entire setup.
When you work out springs rate on a car, you got to look at the wheel frequency.
The wheel frequency is what the wheel see from the springs rate after the goes through the suspension (motion ratio), so the GD being a Macpherson strut will have a near to 1:1 ratio, where other cars with bigger motion ratio may only see half of that at the wheel.
On a road car, you want to stick to 2.0Hz or under, where you can go higher on a race car.
The thing is you got to keep things "safe" for a road car, even if it goes on track.
So I try to stay under 2.0Hz when I hear "road car", where if I know the car will be trailer to track, I can push the wheel frequency up higher a bit.
Now, the biggest thing about 1-way adjustable is "what" it adjust.
You want to keep the compression:rebound ratio under at 1:3 ratio for most fast road car, and down to a 1:2 ratio for track car.
The issue you see with many 1-way adjustable is that it doesn't adjust the compression enough though out the adjustments, and by the time you go to full stiff you see a 1:4 or even 1:5 ratio.
The reason the GT1 have a "build" info is because technically speaking it is a custom build unit.
We have different compression valving suited for fast road / track / race, as well as rebound valving adjusted from 3kg/mm to 18kg/mm springs rate.
So we can set the springs rate for the intended purposes, and valve the damper accordingly.
The thing many got to remember is that damping adjustment range have to be meaningful, you want to be able to hit the 60% to 80% critical damping for your fast road use, as well as hitting your 80% to 100% critical damping for track use.
You can always run higher springs rate, but you aren't getting the most out of the car until you are running close to that 100% critical damping and have good compression force to work the tyres; that is what the adjustments of the GT1 damper are designed to do.
The thing is comfort as well as performance all come in hand in hand if you can engineer the solution for it.
We have a system we call the "F.A.S.T." system, which is a range of sequentially lined holes on the other edge of the piston.
The function is to provide a "controlled" bleed to the suspension system.
This provide comfort because it allow the damper to react to smaller suspension movement (driving on the motorway), but it also increase performance because it introduce "progressive" loading of the tyres and this allow the tyres to initiate grip and therefore provide more traction.
All this happen dynamically in millisecond, but it all makes a difference in how a car feel and drive.
The best example I can give for what the owners need will be similar to what Steven Peeler was running in an Evo6 RS.
It was a road driven MLR Sprint Series race car.
The wheel frequency was a little over 2.0Hz, but not out of this world and he does drive it on the road.
It is complaint to drive on the road, and at the same time it was very stable on the stiffer setting when in sprint event.
It took runner up in the most competitive ClassB championship within a sea of Ohlins, Nitron, and JRZ on its first outing with the MeisterR GT1 prototype.
Can we run higher springs rate? Sure we can.
But the car road performance will deteriorate, and it wouldn't provide much better performance at the sprint because you are limited to what tyres you can do.
If you aren't running racing slick tyres, you should not be using springs rate that are design to run with slick.
I hope that explain a bit what I was saying... it is long and technical, but that is what the GT1 is about.
It wasn't something we pull together with good marketing, it was CAD design by Black Art Design who build suspension for Pike Peak Race car.
Jerrick
21 July 2015, 09:31 PM
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KW V3 if you can stretch to them, spent so much money swapping and changing "cheap" suspension and have been settled on these for a year now.
Love them on the track, and are very civilised on the road too compared to the BC's I had.
Love them on the track, and are very civilised on the road too compared to the BC's I had.
22 July 2015, 10:33 AM
#19
MeisterR, The OP has asked about track and sprints, yet in your other forum posts on not just subaru threads you suggest "the GT1 are design for daily / fast road / occasional track days" & "The adjustment range at the stiffer end will push the tyres into the ground for better traction, and give crisp turn in on those occasional track days" http://www.mx5nutz.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=160330
so what are they?
Also have you sold many sets? only every thread on these is started by yourself,
If you have, how many were for subaru owners ? have you got any real feedback for them?
I have to ask as you have been pushing these since at least 2013 and I dont know anyone who owns a set yet.
so what are they?
Also have you sold many sets? only every thread on these is started by yourself,
If you have, how many were for subaru owners ? have you got any real feedback for them?
I have to ask as you have been pushing these since at least 2013 and I dont know anyone who owns a set yet.
22 July 2015, 03:44 PM
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MeisterR, The OP has asked about track and sprints, yet in your other forum posts on not just subaru threads you suggest "the GT1 are design for daily / fast road / occasional track days" & "The adjustment range at the stiffer end will push the tyres into the ground for better traction, and give crisp turn in on those occasional track days" http://www.mx5nutz.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=160330
so what are they?
Also have you sold many sets? only every thread on these is started by yourself,
If you have, how many were for subaru owners ? have you got any real feedback for them?
I have to ask as you have been pushing these since at least 2013 and I dont know anyone who owns a set yet.
so what are they?
Also have you sold many sets? only every thread on these is started by yourself,
If you have, how many were for subaru owners ? have you got any real feedback for them?
I have to ask as you have been pushing these since at least 2013 and I dont know anyone who owns a set yet.
The GT1 is now ready and we have a few owners running them, but not any for the Subaru community as far as I am aware (for now).
The GT1 "can" be for everything, that is why we always ask what customer want because they can be custom valved to specs.
One of the best feature about the GT1 is the CNC piston is "adjustable" depending on how you design the assembly stack.
We can take a set of GT1 that is being used on a race car on slicks, change the shims, and put it on a Rolls Royce.
(In case you want to know, Black Art Design do make damper for race car and Rolls Royce).
You are correct that:
"the GT1 are design for daily / fast road / occasional track days" & "The adjustment range at the stiffer end will push the tyres into the ground for better traction, and give crisp turn in on those occasional track days"
The GT1 are design to do everything well... You can drive to the track comfortably, get onto the track and be competitive, then drive home in comfort.
It is design to work well on uneven road surfaces of softer setting, but on stiffer setting will control body roll and generate traction on the ground.
This is possible because of the advance internal, and is the main difference between entry level performance suspensions and high end one.
We don't have many set on the market at the moment, I don't think we have any on any Subaru yet.
Some of the the custom GT1 we provided are on race car this year and is leading their championship.
For review, the most recent one are from Lewis who runs a Civic Type-R.
http://civictype-r.co.uk/forum/viewt...?f=30&t=287495
Originally Posted by Lewisgame
Ok so as I'm one of the very few to own these, I thought I'd give some feedback on these.
To begin with, if you're in a rush for new suspension then these aren't for you. It took just over 3 weeks for these to come through. But the dampers are hand built so it's to be expected. Just bear that in mind.
I dealt with Edwin through MeisterR. Good customer service and quick with the replies through email. I asked about stiffer spring rates but was assured that their standard rate for the EP3/DC5 is good enough for road and track use with these dampers even with semi slick tyres.
Front 8kg/mm
Rear 12kg/mm
So onto the product. They're almost identical to the Zeta-R I previously had. Differences that they have covers that protect the stanchion and spring. Also scribe marks on the bottom of the dampers and an Allen key bolt poking out.
Fitting was straight forward. As they're the same body and springs as the previous. Setting the heights and spring preload was easy. Only a few minor adjustments were needed on the car. N/S/F spring has around an extra 10mm of spring preload to compensate the extra weight of the engine and driver. With driver weight in the car, the height on the front is identical on both sides. The rear height is set to 10mm higher.
Geometry was all set up.
Front
-2.2 camber
0.5mm toe out
Rear
-1.6 camber
0mm toe
Onto the driving. First initial thoughts was how smooth the felt. Yet still maintaining feel and feedback of the road. Going over lumps and bumps the car is much more composed and less skittish. Gives greater confidence on pushing a little harder over uneven road surfaces. Less wheel spin accelerating and better braking on uneven surfaces. On the damper settings I'm fairly soft. From soft settings 5 clicks on the front and 10 on the rear. These have a range of around 36 clicks. Before I used to run 15 clicks front and 20 clicks rear on the old Zeta-R. While is feels a lot softer now, when you push in a corner it almost stiffens up, doesn't roll much and feels just as composed if not more than the old Zeta-R set up.
I'll keep updating this thread as I continue to use and test these. In 2 weeks time I've got a track session at Trax Silverstone where I'll wind the dampers up to a pretty stiff setting and see how they do on track.
To begin with, if you're in a rush for new suspension then these aren't for you. It took just over 3 weeks for these to come through. But the dampers are hand built so it's to be expected. Just bear that in mind.
I dealt with Edwin through MeisterR. Good customer service and quick with the replies through email. I asked about stiffer spring rates but was assured that their standard rate for the EP3/DC5 is good enough for road and track use with these dampers even with semi slick tyres.
Front 8kg/mm
Rear 12kg/mm
So onto the product. They're almost identical to the Zeta-R I previously had. Differences that they have covers that protect the stanchion and spring. Also scribe marks on the bottom of the dampers and an Allen key bolt poking out.
Fitting was straight forward. As they're the same body and springs as the previous. Setting the heights and spring preload was easy. Only a few minor adjustments were needed on the car. N/S/F spring has around an extra 10mm of spring preload to compensate the extra weight of the engine and driver. With driver weight in the car, the height on the front is identical on both sides. The rear height is set to 10mm higher.
Geometry was all set up.
Front
-2.2 camber
0.5mm toe out
Rear
-1.6 camber
0mm toe
Onto the driving. First initial thoughts was how smooth the felt. Yet still maintaining feel and feedback of the road. Going over lumps and bumps the car is much more composed and less skittish. Gives greater confidence on pushing a little harder over uneven road surfaces. Less wheel spin accelerating and better braking on uneven surfaces. On the damper settings I'm fairly soft. From soft settings 5 clicks on the front and 10 on the rear. These have a range of around 36 clicks. Before I used to run 15 clicks front and 20 clicks rear on the old Zeta-R. While is feels a lot softer now, when you push in a corner it almost stiffens up, doesn't roll much and feels just as composed if not more than the old Zeta-R set up.
I'll keep updating this thread as I continue to use and test these. In 2 weeks time I've got a track session at Trax Silverstone where I'll wind the dampers up to a pretty stiff setting and see how they do on track.
Originally Posted by Lewisgame
Well I cranked up the settings. You're right it really comes into its own!
Like you said, it's stiff, but not harsh. Over rough road surfaces like concrete and small imperfections the ride is almost no different to it being on the soft settings. Obviously hit a large bump or dip you know about it. But on basically it's stiffest settings you could live with it.
As for performance, it just gets better! The turn in and response is instant. Nice and firm but not too firm that it washes out on road tyres. Even pushing over bumpy roads it's still composed and not jumping around.
I did find that I still needed the front 5 clicks softer. Whether this is something I prefer or how the car is set up, but with the settings both the same front and rear I could feel the rear of the car squatting down too much to my liking. Wind down the dampening on the front by only 5 clicks and it makes such a difference to the balance.
I'll keep this difference between the front and rear, then gradually reduce the stiffness to find a happy medium for comfort and performance. I'll crank them back up for the track.
Like you said, it's stiff, but not harsh. Over rough road surfaces like concrete and small imperfections the ride is almost no different to it being on the soft settings. Obviously hit a large bump or dip you know about it. But on basically it's stiffest settings you could live with it.
As for performance, it just gets better! The turn in and response is instant. Nice and firm but not too firm that it washes out on road tyres. Even pushing over bumpy roads it's still composed and not jumping around.
I did find that I still needed the front 5 clicks softer. Whether this is something I prefer or how the car is set up, but with the settings both the same front and rear I could feel the rear of the car squatting down too much to my liking. Wind down the dampening on the front by only 5 clicks and it makes such a difference to the balance.
I'll keep this difference between the front and rear, then gradually reduce the stiffness to find a happy medium for comfort and performance. I'll crank them back up for the track.
Originally Posted by Lewisgame
Ok so tried and tested on the track at Silverstone. Again very impressed with the results.
I didn't go full hard on the damper settings as I wasn't sure how they'd react. But went with what I've used on the road briefly which is from hard, 10 clicks front and 5 clicks rear.
Handling was just superb. For me the balance was just right. Planted with the ability of a little lift off oversteer when needed. So controllable by just feathering the throttle.
After the first session I thought about winding the settings up stiffer. They didn't feel soft, but could of been stiffer. But I was getting to the point of the tyres washing out, going stiffer would probably make the problem worse, so I left them as it was. If I was on semi slicks it probably would benefit from going stiffer.
So far I can't find a negative for these coilovers. I forgot to turn the dampers down to soft driving home. For the first few miles me or my 2 passengers didn't even realise until we hit some lumpy roads. These are probably one of the best coilovers available for the daily/track combo car. At £1650 you might think that's a little steep, but to find a set up on a similar level you're looking at over £2000. These are fairly cheap in the suspension world.
Comparing to my old Zeta-R. They're considerably better in every aspect and worth the extra money. If you're looking for quality, I'd highly recommend the GT1.
I didn't go full hard on the damper settings as I wasn't sure how they'd react. But went with what I've used on the road briefly which is from hard, 10 clicks front and 5 clicks rear.
Handling was just superb. For me the balance was just right. Planted with the ability of a little lift off oversteer when needed. So controllable by just feathering the throttle.
After the first session I thought about winding the settings up stiffer. They didn't feel soft, but could of been stiffer. But I was getting to the point of the tyres washing out, going stiffer would probably make the problem worse, so I left them as it was. If I was on semi slicks it probably would benefit from going stiffer.
So far I can't find a negative for these coilovers. I forgot to turn the dampers down to soft driving home. For the first few miles me or my 2 passengers didn't even realise until we hit some lumpy roads. These are probably one of the best coilovers available for the daily/track combo car. At £1650 you might think that's a little steep, but to find a set up on a similar level you're looking at over £2000. These are fairly cheap in the suspension world.
Comparing to my old Zeta-R. They're considerably better in every aspect and worth the extra money. If you're looking for quality, I'd highly recommend the GT1.
The GT1 is going to be a long and slippery slope as we are competing on some of the high end level suspensions and brand pedigree will come into play.
However, we build to GT1 with the aim to out perform everyone's offering within the same price bracket, and the fact that we are the only suspension to offer a lifetime warranty on the damper shows how confident we are with the GT1 durability and quality.
Jerrick
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