Can England recover?
15 July 2014, 02:22 PM
#1
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Can England recover?
After the disgraceful performance of England in Brazil, the strength of some of the newer teams, the emergence of the USA, can England ever become a force in world football again?
They played a very dull style of football (could be forgiven if it worked, but.....), showed little in the way of any basic skills compared to some other teams, lack of imagination and lack of passion.
One news article seemd to sum it perfectly when they said English football has been left behind.
So, is there an appetite to change things, or has England now really been consigned to third world football?
They played a very dull style of football (could be forgiven if it worked, but.....), showed little in the way of any basic skills compared to some other teams, lack of imagination and lack of passion.
One news article seemd to sum it perfectly when they said English football has been left behind.
So, is there an appetite to change things, or has England now really been consigned to third world football?
15 July 2014, 02:55 PM
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They were still good in 1970, but Brazil were better! They reached the semis in 1990, but I agree, perhaps a force isn't the right word. Will they ever get any better? 
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15 July 2014, 03:03 PM
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15 July 2014, 03:19 PM
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There needs to be a complete clear out at the FA, a total overhaul of the systems at school & youth level, and a national manager with the both the bottle & the sense to select the best team of players, rather than those who'll sell the most shirts.
So in answer to the question, no I don't think England will ever be a major force in world football.
So in answer to the question, no I don't think England will ever be a major force in world football.
15 July 2014, 03:23 PM
#11
It was an interesting observation by the former Brazilian great, Jairzinho, that in his opinion Brazilian football started to go downhill when major players started to leave to play abroad. He also noted that many Brazilian teams have a large number of foreign players, preventing young Brazilians from developing at the top level. Sound familiar?
15 July 2014, 03:33 PM
#13
The problem IMO is the Premier League.
The Premier League is about providing the best football, regardless of nationality or money, it's business.
The FA/England is about nurturing English players and getting a pool of high-quality players who have played at the highest level (and ideally, together).
The two are mutually exclusive, and the one that wins out is naturally, the one with the money. So no, until the balance is fixed, we won't have a world-beating England team.
The Premier League is about providing the best football, regardless of nationality or money, it's business.
The FA/England is about nurturing English players and getting a pool of high-quality players who have played at the highest level (and ideally, together).
The two are mutually exclusive, and the one that wins out is naturally, the one with the money. So no, until the balance is fixed, we won't have a world-beating England team.
15 July 2014, 03:47 PM
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Don't the Germans have the same issue though? It's not as if Bayern has no foreigners, and the Bundesleaugue is not exactly Sunday football, but they have managed it.
I think the FA just don't have the *****, as opposed to the clubs having too much power.
I think the FA just don't have the *****, as opposed to the clubs having too much power.
15 July 2014, 03:53 PM
#15
The Bundesliga is not as popular (yet) as the EPL, and I suspect though do not know for sure, that it is not as flooded with foreigners as the EPL. I suspect that might be down to the requirement the German FA imposes on clubs to have Youth Academies in order to have a licence to participate in football.
15 July 2014, 04:45 PM
#16
Some interesting stats support the view that the EPL has lower levels of English participants.
From http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/foo...any-coach.html
Only around a third of Premier League players are English while 60 per cent of players in the Bundesliga are German
From http://sports.ndtv.com/football/news...premier-league
English footballers accounted for just 32 percent of the minutes played in the Premier League, compared to 59 percent for home-grown players in the Spanish Liga and 50 percent for home-grown players in Germany's Bundesliga
So it certainly seems to be the case that the EPL with it's money is just out to recruit the best regardless of where they come from. I cannot see how the FA can change that without reducing the status of the EPL. Though that in itself may be a good thing. I don't particularly think it's healthy that multi billionaires can effectively play with clubs as a dalliance.
From http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/foo...any-coach.html
Only around a third of Premier League players are English while 60 per cent of players in the Bundesliga are German
From http://sports.ndtv.com/football/news...premier-league
English footballers accounted for just 32 percent of the minutes played in the Premier League, compared to 59 percent for home-grown players in the Spanish Liga and 50 percent for home-grown players in Germany's Bundesliga
So it certainly seems to be the case that the EPL with it's money is just out to recruit the best regardless of where they come from. I cannot see how the FA can change that without reducing the status of the EPL. Though that in itself may be a good thing. I don't particularly think it's healthy that multi billionaires can effectively play with clubs as a dalliance.
15 July 2014, 05:08 PM
#17
The fa need to concentrate on schools and grass roots, the rest will fall into place. Poorer areas create more skilful players, because a lot of the time a football is their only form of entertainment. Technology has a lot to answer for.
15 July 2014, 05:58 PM
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The Bundesliga is not as popular (yet) as the EPL, and I suspect though do not know for sure, that it is not as flooded with foreigners as the EPL. I suspect that might be down to the requirement the German FA imposes on clubs to have Youth Academies in order to have a licence to participate in football.
The other big problem that has to be addressed is that of parents at junior level matches
The 'win at all costs' mentality is still far too prevalent. They are kids, they should be learning to enjoy playing the game, if they are any good, the rest will come naturally
15 July 2014, 07:52 PM
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There needs to be a complete clear out at the FA, a total overhaul of the systems at school & youth level, and a national manager with the both the bottle & the sense to select the best team of players, rather than those who'll sell the most shirts.
So in answer to the question, no I don't think England will ever be a major force in world football.
So in answer to the question, no I don't think England will ever be a major force in world football.
The problem IMO is the Premier League.
The Premier League is about providing the best football, regardless of nationality or money, it's business.
The FA/England is about nurturing English players and getting a pool of high-quality players who have played at the highest level (and ideally, together).
The two are mutually exclusive, and the one that wins out is naturally, the one with the money. So no, until the balance is fixed, we won't have a world-beating England team.
The Premier League is about providing the best football, regardless of nationality or money, it's business.
The FA/England is about nurturing English players and getting a pool of high-quality players who have played at the highest level (and ideally, together).
The two are mutually exclusive, and the one that wins out is naturally, the one with the money. So no, until the balance is fixed, we won't have a world-beating England team.
That is the key, and to be fair, the premier league academies are getting better.
The other big problem that has to be addressed is that of parents at junior level matches
The 'win at all costs' mentality is still far too prevalent. They are kids, they should be learning to enjoy playing the game, if they are any good, the rest will come naturally
The other big problem that has to be addressed is that of parents at junior level matches
The 'win at all costs' mentality is still far too prevalent. They are kids, they should be learning to enjoy playing the game, if they are any good, the rest will come naturally
15 July 2014, 07:56 PM
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Toni Kroos, world cup winner, to Real Madrid - £20 million.
Luke Shaw, won nothing of note, to Man Ure - £25 million.
Half decent English/British players cost a premium, yet mediocre, I'm not inferring that Kroos is mediocre - he's far from it, foreign players can be bought on the cheap.
These cheap imports then keep promising English youngsters out of the first teams of most clubs, Southampton a bit of an exception.
If England ever want to even try and compete at International level again, then there has to be a massive change from the ground up. Coaching, facilities etc.
Also, there needs to be a cap on the amount for foreign players in squads reintroduced. The EPL is only supposedly the "best league in the world" due to the richest clubs buying the best players from around the world.
As much as I dislike Man Ure, under Alex Ferguson they at least brought good British players through. Whether that will continue under LVG remains to be seen.
In short, unless something changes, we're fcuked on the world stage.
Luke Shaw, won nothing of note, to Man Ure - £25 million.
Half decent English/British players cost a premium, yet mediocre, I'm not inferring that Kroos is mediocre - he's far from it, foreign players can be bought on the cheap.
These cheap imports then keep promising English youngsters out of the first teams of most clubs, Southampton a bit of an exception.
If England ever want to even try and compete at International level again, then there has to be a massive change from the ground up. Coaching, facilities etc.
Also, there needs to be a cap on the amount for foreign players in squads reintroduced. The EPL is only supposedly the "best league in the world" due to the richest clubs buying the best players from around the world.
As much as I dislike Man Ure, under Alex Ferguson they at least brought good British players through. Whether that will continue under LVG remains to be seen.
In short, unless something changes, we're fcuked on the world stage.
15 July 2014, 09:28 PM
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English mentality is about negativity, we criticise players for everything and never seem to accept their limitations or failures. We all make mistakes but British footballers are never allowed to forget theirs.
16 July 2014, 08:35 AM
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This is Zak Brunt at 8 years old, he's from the village where I live. Trialled at all the big English clubs but was signed by Athletico Madrid . We have the youngsters coming through the academies you only have to look at the players that have come through Southampton. What we are lacking is coaching staff with vision.
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ieOAiQVnE6Q
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iAKmzh9TjsY
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ieOAiQVnE6Q
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iAKmzh9TjsY
Last edited by Xx-IAN-xX; 16 July 2014 at 08:36 AM.
16 July 2014, 08:58 AM
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I find this hard to understand. I get the tribalism of football, I really do, but whichever club you support is not representative of why you originally supported that club!
I don't know who you support, but for arguments sake, let's say it is Manchester City, and you are from Manchester, so naturally, you support them (but could have supported Utd.). You support them because as a Manc, you want to beat the Scousers, the Cockneys, etc. But, Man City's 27 man squad for 2014 has 8 UK players. To the best of my knowledge, none of them are from Manchester either.
On that basis, you may as well support any team you like in the EPL. At least in international football, you can fully realise your triballistic tendencies to the full. A real feeling of one upmanship as something you belong to beats someone else.
I don't know who you support, but for arguments sake, let's say it is Manchester City, and you are from Manchester, so naturally, you support them (but could have supported Utd.). You support them because as a Manc, you want to beat the Scousers, the Cockneys, etc. But, Man City's 27 man squad for 2014 has 8 UK players. To the best of my knowledge, none of them are from Manchester either.
On that basis, you may as well support any team you like in the EPL. At least in international football, you can fully realise your triballistic tendencies to the full. A real feeling of one upmanship as something you belong to beats someone else.
16 July 2014, 09:47 AM
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I find this hard to understand. I get the tribalism of football, I really do, but whichever club you support is not representative of why you originally supported that club!
I don't know who you support, but for arguments sake, let's say it is Manchester City, and you are from Manchester, so naturally, you support them (but could have supported Utd.). You support them because as a Manc, you want to beat the Scousers, the Cockneys, etc. But, Man City's 27 man squad for 2014 has 8 UK players. To the best of my knowledge, none of them are from Manchester either.
On that basis, you may as well support any team you like in the EPL. At least in international football, you can fully realise your triballistic tendencies to the full. A real feeling of one upmanship as something you belong to beats someone else.
I don't know who you support, but for arguments sake, let's say it is Manchester City, and you are from Manchester, so naturally, you support them (but could have supported Utd.). You support them because as a Manc, you want to beat the Scousers, the Cockneys, etc. But, Man City's 27 man squad for 2014 has 8 UK players. To the best of my knowledge, none of them are from Manchester either.
On that basis, you may as well support any team you like in the EPL. At least in international football, you can fully realise your triballistic tendencies to the full. A real feeling of one upmanship as something you belong to beats someone else.
I bet if you ask any Sh1tty fan (over the last 12 years) they would say that the English League (EPL in particular) has given them the most amazing time/excitement - for 9/10 months each year of those 12 years
incomparable to a simple "big" win once every 4 years
just my view