KennyG

Hi guys.

Just looking for opinion here.

I have a 2003 wrx which I got in late September. Due to the seller having a private plate on the car and not removing it until the sale I couldn't actually drive it after a week as the tax was out on the 1st of October. I have a daily driver so it wasn't a big issue

By the time i got the documents it was mid October so I didn't want to waste tax so planned to get it in November - however I didn't manage to due to wages issues and it was December before I could tax it. Once taxed I found out the battery was goosed so had to replace that... and then being able to finally drive it - I found that the temperature gauge dropped like a stone while moving.

Took it to a garage having done less than 200 miles in it and it turned out there was no thermostat in it ... this was put in and the car overheated.. so a waterpump, timing belt kit and a radiator later - its still overheating. Basically the garage have said that they suspect the head and or the gasket have gone on it.

Now given I've only done very few miles and that the thermostat had obviously been removed to disguise the overheating and the seller had not mentioned any issue with overheating do you think I would be within my rights to get some quotes for the repair and take him to small claims court for the cost? I know buyer beware etc but I asked all the questions and checked the water and oil for any cross contamination) I also have the transcript of the entire discussion of the sale as we had chatted online about it. The garage are going to also do a full report for me.

What would you do? - And no less than legal solutions please! However tempting it is.....

brendy76

iTrader: (6)

Hate to say it but being a private sale, it is up to you to satisfy yourself that you know what you are buying.

Busterbulldog

iTrader: (1)

Learn from the experience and take it on the chin

KennyG

But surely its not something that could be checked without specialist equipment (compression test) and that the seller had misrepresented the car's condition?

Either way I guess I'm looking at an engine rebuild... any ideas on costs or recommended companies in scotland?

MattyB1983

iTrader: (51)

So you bought and paid for a car without driving it ??
Its a private sale, you bought it as you saw it. Nothing you can do whatsoever, the seller will say it was fine and you've done the head gasket.

tubbytommy

iTrader: (20)

why would you buy a car and not drive it.


id say your stupidity has cost you...

rsdub

iTrader: (1)

Nope.not a leg to stand on.as soon as it leaves the drive its yours to deal with.thats why maybe dealers charge extra for premises faults warranties etc.basically same as buying at an auction

nikon-man

iTrader: (3)

what difference did it make that it had a private plate on it you surely could still have taken it for a test drive .....when you purchased it did he trailer it to you

thunder8

iTrader: (1)

just because the head gasket either 1 has gone why a rebuild ?????

KennyG

I did test drive it, the temperature was a little lower than expected but it had been idling and had got up to temperature before I had driven it and the air temp was a fair bit higher and it didn't drop to any lower than just below halfway - it certainly didn't overheat - when I mentioned the temp at the time I was told by the seller that it was possibly needing a thermostat, not that it was absent all together.

Also the difference caused by the private plate is that you cannot tax a car without the registration document - which I didn't have until he had taken his plate off and transferred the v5 into my name.

EssexJamie

iTrader: (5)

You've had the car for 3 months no court is going to accept your claim, you could have been running the car for all they know for those 3 months regardless if tax!
Why didn't you start the car regularly anyway that way the battery wouldn't have been dead and you would have noticed things sooner!

You should have negotiated the tax into the sale of the vehicle or at least gave him the money to get you the tax there and then!

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

You don't have a hope in hells chance. Even if you discovered all this the next day, it is a private sale. End of. I bought an sti 3 and on the 80 miles journey home, the engine spun a shell and I was only 5 miles from home!

Deal with it and learn from your experience.

andy_rr

You do have some rights when buying a car privately - just because it is a private sale/purchase does not mean that having driven off down the road and the car falls to bits you are resigned to taking it on the chin.
http://www.adviceguide.org.uk/englan...ed_to_know.htm

If I buy a car privately I ask some direct questions such as : are there any major issues with it that I should know about, are you the owner, has it had any accidents - that sort of thing which, if a major problem arises and it is obvious that the seller was untruthful then I'd have comeback.
I think that, as you say that the the low temperature reading was discussed, if the seller had owned the car for any length of time then he would have experienced this issue himself so it was him, not a previous owner, who bodged it and he's done it knowign that it would last a short time only.
I'd contact the seller now and tell him what has been found - might be worth going to CAB to get a little bit more ammunition before going back to him - he would likely have been ready for you contact him as he knows what state the car was in and is very unlikely to be willing to sort it out without a fight.

KennyG

I have proof of the mileage before I got it and what the mileage is now

I would have got the seller to tax it had I actually had the money at the time to tax it mid month - and it didn't help that he went away on holiday at the end of the month having sent off the documents.

I work away during the week and I was starting the car on the weekends but without the thermostat the car was still getting up to temperature at idle it wasn't until I could drive it on the road that I noticed the sudden dropping and took it to a garage.

I had asked him numerous questions including being told it had had a compression test with "150 all round" as the results. As I said I have all the conversation too. He also had talked about replacing the waterpump - and when asked why - he said it was because the thermostat housing bolt had threaded - so he was messing with the thermostat and would have known it wasn't in there when he replaced the pump.

I've already contacted him and his response was "see you in court"...

andy_rr

"See you in court ..." is obviously this guy's shorthand for "You won't take me to court and you know it" but if you feel you have a genuine case then I'd contact CAB (my wife works for them so I know a little - this is in Scotland so some things are different here). Going to small claims court is not a massive deal, just need to get clued up and get as much evidence together as possible.
If you present a good case and do it properly then the sherrif/judge should be fair on you.
If you note down all of what you are saying here then it certainly appears that the seller was very aware that what he was selling was defective and he concealed this fact from you by lying.
As it was a 2003 WRX I'm hoping you did not pay a huge amount for it so the threat of a genuine small claims case being issued against this guy may be sufficient to at least have him look to contributing some of the cost for rectifying the problems. Maybe not - also maybe now you don't want the car since who knows how long the car was run without the thermostat with possible overheating issues but a small claims action will involve a few hours of your time and not much money. Could result in you not losing out big time with this car which, by the sounds of it, you cannot afford to do.

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

And the fact that you had the car for 3 months puts the win far more in his court than yours.

Can I ask how much you paid and what the mileage is?

BrownPantsRacing

iTrader: (6)

KennyG

I'm in scotland too Andy and yeah I did read up on it before I made this post

the section I am mostly referring to is

" When you buy a car from a private seller, you have the following rights:

the seller must have the right to sell the car
the car must match its description."

The car didn't match its description and if I had known it was overheating then I think if I was stupid enough to take it then then I would have deserved it..

I have told him what the problems were and he dismissed it - he was very keen to sell which had concerned me and now I know why. I don't want the car in the condition its in- I would actually like to drive it..

The only option I feel is to try the small claims court - I have the whole discussion about the condition, which includes the mileage, asking about the compression test why the waterpump was changed etc, and I have the garage report to back me up I know it doesn't cost too much - it depends on the report from the garage and the quote they give me for the work - its either that or I take it on the chin, save up to fix it... or sell it for a huge loss as spares or repair.. I think its worth taking a chance - after all it will be at least a grand (and then some) on repairs which I don't feel I should be solely paying for!

EssexJamie

iTrader: (5)

How much to go to court though if you lose?

tubbytommy

iTrader: (20)

the seller could argue the car did match the description and three months later the fault developed.

this is your biggest issue here

KennyG

It was actually a swap - I had a r33 skyline he wanted which I thought was equal in value - so we swapped it - he had advertised it at £4200, which I don't think it was worth - it had and still has 92k on the clock... Which is mentioned by him in the conversation we had about the car... so I can prove that despite the three months - the car has done very few miles.

I also have the date of when I taxed it and when it had run out so even though it has been 3 months I couldn't have legally driven it for two of those months and the majority of the remaining month it has been in the garage getting diagnosed..

Have only put about £30 in petrol in it ... still has half a tank too.. cheap on fuel when they don't move I guess!

tubbytommy

iTrader: (20)

thing is you cant really prove much of that, for instance you could have run the car without water on idle or low on oil, just because the mileage hasnt changed doesnt mean a whole lot

Worlasshasansti

How much is a newage wrx long engine out of interest?

Might be cheaper to just drop a known running used motor in than carry out loads of work to get it running if your not flush at the moment.

After 3 months I couldn't be bothered with small claims etc it's been too long and you were obviously happy enough to buy it, ****e situation to be in but I can't see anyone doing much about it.

What is the mileage on the car.

Did you give much for it?

Mick

Worlasshasansti

Sorry missed the posts above

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

You even admit that there were alarm bells going before you did the swap. And you swapped anyway?

Sorry fella, yes you could take it to court but I honestly think it will be a difficult case to win.

Did it drive? - Yes?
Did it overheat on the test drive - Yes
Did he give you clues that something was a bit suspect - Yes

We all make mistakes. I was heart broken when the engine went in my old car less than 70 miles way from where I bought it. It cost me £2k to put right too. I lost a ****e load of cash on that deal, but I still bought another some 5 years later.

Your best bet is to find out why it is over heating, fix that and if the heat gaskets need replacing, buy a 2nd hand engine from a known source on here and put it all down to experience.

Sorry, but I am 99% sure, due to the length of time that you have owned it that you will not win anything in court.

Just because you haven't driven it car doesn't mean that you haven't tinkered under the bonnet or ragged the nuts off of it over the few miles that you have done.

KennyG

But the fact the thermostat had been removed is in the garages opinion proof that the seller was trying to disguise an issue with the cooling system - and it just so happens that the engine is overheating?

I know its a gamble - the cost itself depends on the money involved but will be about £90 at a guess to lodge the complaint for the amount of what the repair costs, and then if it goes to court it would have limited expenses to the winning party..

The engine doesn't apparently overheat until the car is driven - its fine at idle - so what would stop me from doing the dishonest thing and putting it into an auction? It wouldn't be fair to the person buying it... so why should I just take it on the chin and stump up the cash on what is essentially an economic write off.. I'd rather take the gamble...

KennyG

Did it drive - yes
Did it overheat on test drive - No
Did he give you clues of something was suspect - yes but answers were given to address those concerns.

mickp

iTrader: (1)

Not a prayer of getting a result on this I would say. Try to put it behind you and move on.

Gear Head

iTrader: (2)

Sorry, I meant to put 'no' on the second statement.

Worlasshasansti

Take the gamble then simple really?

Does it not make things even more complicated being that there was no money exchanging hands?

Who's to say what your r33 was worth and what the WRX is worth when no money was involved?

To Stick it in an auction as is would be a ***** trick as you have said but that's what separates decent people from scum