Insurance help, fraudulent claim
03 December 2013, 01:32 PM
#4
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Hang on, the inspector said that your car was not in a collision and they still want to pay out? 
I would be shouting 'fraud' from the roof tops at this point. Surely the insurance companies are used to this by now?
Also, what garage declared it as a right off? It could have been because of other reasons. Is there a report from said garage?
I would write a letter to your insurance company stating that they are going to aid a fraudulant claim if they pay out and that you catagorically do not accept any loss of no claims. There was no accident so if they think there was an accident, let them prove it.
I would be shouting 'fraud' from the roof tops at this point. Surely the insurance companies are used to this by now?
Also, what garage declared it as a right off? It could have been because of other reasons. Is there a report from said garage?
I would write a letter to your insurance company stating that they are going to aid a fraudulant claim if they pay out and that you catagorically do not accept any loss of no claims. There was no accident so if they think there was an accident, let them prove it.
03 December 2013, 01:40 PM
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Hang on, the inspector said that your car was not in a collision and they still want to pay out?
I would be shouting 'fraud' from the roof tops at this point. Surely the insurance companies are used to this by now?
Also, what garage declared it as a right off? It could have been because of other reasons. Is there a report from said garage?
I would write a letter to your insurance company stating that they are going to aid a fraudulant claim if they pay out and that you catagorically do not accept any loss of no claims. There was no accident so if they think there was an accident, let them prove it.
I would be shouting 'fraud' from the roof tops at this point. Surely the insurance companies are used to this by now?
Also, what garage declared it as a right off? It could have been because of other reasons. Is there a report from said garage?
I would write a letter to your insurance company stating that they are going to aid a fraudulant claim if they pay out and that you catagorically do not accept any loss of no claims. There was no accident so if they think there was an accident, let them prove it.
Some people really are scum trying this on!
03 December 2013, 02:17 PM
#7
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The inspecting engineer would have declared it a write off, not the garage. The garage would have given an estimate for repair work to the engineer, who then would have valued the car and when its found to be less than the repair - write off.
This would be what the insurance industry calls a "quantum dispute", or it would be if you accepted you made contact.
It does not necessarily make it fraud.
You need to make sure your insurance company are aware that you are stating that no contact was made at all. If you accept even the slightest touch happened then there is nothing you can do. It is very harsh, but if you even just touched the other car then they are entitled to have the bumpers checked and a minor scratch repaired or any brackets and holdings underneath repaired/replaced. And that will be more expensive than an old car is worth, hence write off.
Go back to your insurance co and reiterate that you didnt even touch the other car and that you are not involved. If you have already had your car inspected and the engineer has stated that your car was not involved in any incidents then it should be up to the other insurance company to prove you were involved.
I feel your pain as I have to deal with these sort of claims all the time (yes, I work for an evil insurance company in the claims dept). I would suggest you remain calm any time you talk to the insurance co as yelling or getting frustated at someone on the phone will not help your case, and will help the handlers understand that you can be a credible witness (yes you can be a "witness" involved in your own cases) and willing to assist in any action that may be deemed necessary.
Were there any witnesses? Not including anyone who was in either car?
Who are you insured with?
This would be what the insurance industry calls a "quantum dispute", or it would be if you accepted you made contact.
It does not necessarily make it fraud.
You need to make sure your insurance company are aware that you are stating that no contact was made at all. If you accept even the slightest touch happened then there is nothing you can do. It is very harsh, but if you even just touched the other car then they are entitled to have the bumpers checked and a minor scratch repaired or any brackets and holdings underneath repaired/replaced. And that will be more expensive than an old car is worth, hence write off.
Go back to your insurance co and reiterate that you didnt even touch the other car and that you are not involved. If you have already had your car inspected and the engineer has stated that your car was not involved in any incidents then it should be up to the other insurance company to prove you were involved.
I feel your pain as I have to deal with these sort of claims all the time (yes, I work for an evil insurance company in the claims dept). I would suggest you remain calm any time you talk to the insurance co as yelling or getting frustated at someone on the phone will not help your case, and will help the handlers understand that you can be a credible witness (yes you can be a "witness" involved in your own cases) and willing to assist in any action that may be deemed necessary.
Were there any witnesses? Not including anyone who was in either car?
Who are you insured with?
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03 December 2013, 02:46 PM
#8
If there was no contact why did both parties stop and exchange details?
It is odd that she has got 'rid' of her car as without an engineers report there is no evidence of any damage. If she had a engineers report carried out before getting rid then it's another matter...
It's boils down to one persons word against another and odds on your insurers would rather pay out a few hundred quid for a write off than spend thousands taking it to court. Just be glad that no PI claim has come through
It is odd that she has got 'rid' of her car as without an engineers report there is no evidence of any damage. If she had a engineers report carried out before getting rid then it's another matter...
It's boils down to one persons word against another and odds on your insurers would rather pay out a few hundred quid for a write off than spend thousands taking it to court. Just be glad that no PI claim has come through
03 December 2013, 02:57 PM
#9
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How can the insurance pay out if she has got rid of the car? The car technically belongs to the insurance company once a claim is settled, seems a bit strange tbh
03 December 2013, 06:25 PM
#13
There were no pictures taken or witnesses
It was my wife with my 9 month old in the back she felt intimidated as there was 2 of them so just have her mobile number.
Her car had a report saying it was freshly damaged but no proof that it was our car.
The inspector said our car was untouched original citroen numberplate ect.
It annoys me that my insurance company 'covea' are willing to pay with no evidence I could just say someone hit me in my impreza and claim damages and injury and they'd just pay out? What a joke.
03 December 2013, 06:58 PM
#14
Yes, probably one of these numpties that think cos they pay so much for car insurance they should make a claim to get something back, probably doesn't even occur to them that they're the kind of people that make insurance expensive in the first place!
The reason I said what I did in my first post, about ten years ago my wife reversed our car at the time (Volvo S40) into a 6 or 7 year old Citroen AX outside her place of work.
There was not a scratch on the Volvo, the Citroen had a small ding on the front wing (between the door and wheel arch).
Wife knocked on owners door and told her, she wasn't bothered but her boyfriend kicked up a fuss. They took the car to a Citroen dealer about a mile away.
I then receive a quote through the door from the stealer.
Now, I know that the wings on those are plastic, and a bit of heat probably would have popped the dent out, it was only about the size of a golf ball.
The quote included;
New o/s/f wing
Respray bonnet, front wings, front bumper, o/s/f door
Four (yes 4!!!) new tyres
Set of new plastic wheel trims
Wheel alignment
The quote came to around £1500
Dent magician or some such probably would have charged £100 at the most.
Car was written off (I believe).
The reason I said what I did in my first post, about ten years ago my wife reversed our car at the time (Volvo S40) into a 6 or 7 year old Citroen AX outside her place of work.
There was not a scratch on the Volvo, the Citroen had a small ding on the front wing (between the door and wheel arch).
Wife knocked on owners door and told her, she wasn't bothered but her boyfriend kicked up a fuss. They took the car to a Citroen dealer about a mile away.
I then receive a quote through the door from the stealer.
Now, I know that the wings on those are plastic, and a bit of heat probably would have popped the dent out, it was only about the size of a golf ball.
The quote included;
New o/s/f wing
Respray bonnet, front wings, front bumper, o/s/f door
Four (yes 4!!!) new tyres
Set of new plastic wheel trims
Wheel alignment
The quote came to around £1500
Dent magician or some such probably would have charged £100 at the most.
Car was written off (I believe).
03 December 2013, 07:29 PM
#15
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had it years ago with the wife taxi driver, wife touches his towbar no damage to her fiesta 2 weeks later phone call from there insurers car what you hit is a right mess there was no damage to the taxi anyway a assesor was called out and said the wifes car could not have caused that amount off damage and put it down to fraudulent claim hewas well known for it he got a visit off me and some associates shortly after
04 December 2013, 02:15 AM
#16
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This type of situation happened with my daughter a couple of years back.
Waiting behind her 'friend' to get onto a main road. 'Friend' pulls off and then stops. Daughter touches the bumper. No probs - until 'friend' has her father interfere.
Whiplash etc. etc.
I took photos of daughter's car, clearly showing little damage (scratch on bumper).
Her insurance company said they were paying out, NCD affected etc.
Letter to said company stating that the damage was disputed, daughter was paying premium to Ins Co, so they had a duty of care to her, and if they rolled over and paid - and removed (part of) NCD a claim would be made against them.
As far as I know they paid the fraudulent claim.
But what I do know is that they never reduced my daughter's NCD.
You pay an Ins Co to take risks ON YOUR BEHALF.
If they fail to do so they have breached the contract.
NOTE - the policy will cater for claims where you are clearly (or found to be) at fault ie. they reserve the right to reduce your NCD.
However, you are paying them to protect you against claims either through liability or financially.
If they fail to take adequate measures to protect you from liability (such as rolling over) it could be argues that they haven't fulfilled their part of the bargain, and hence you can claim against them.
Remember, Insurance Underwriters (NOT brokers such as KM, AF etc) are 'employed' by you, to protect you.
Waiting behind her 'friend' to get onto a main road. 'Friend' pulls off and then stops. Daughter touches the bumper. No probs - until 'friend' has her father interfere.
Whiplash etc. etc.
I took photos of daughter's car, clearly showing little damage (scratch on bumper).
Her insurance company said they were paying out, NCD affected etc.
Letter to said company stating that the damage was disputed, daughter was paying premium to Ins Co, so they had a duty of care to her, and if they rolled over and paid - and removed (part of) NCD a claim would be made against them.
As far as I know they paid the fraudulent claim.
But what I do know is that they never reduced my daughter's NCD.
You pay an Ins Co to take risks ON YOUR BEHALF.
If they fail to do so they have breached the contract.
NOTE - the policy will cater for claims where you are clearly (or found to be) at fault ie. they reserve the right to reduce your NCD.
However, you are paying them to protect you against claims either through liability or financially.
If they fail to take adequate measures to protect you from liability (such as rolling over) it could be argues that they haven't fulfilled their part of the bargain, and hence you can claim against them.
Remember, Insurance Underwriters (NOT brokers such as KM, AF etc) are 'employed' by you, to protect you.
04 December 2013, 07:25 AM
#17
Mrs had a similar thing where no contact was made, numpty in a bmw tried to pass where 3 lanes go into 2 and ended up kerbing it and onto central reservation, but she being a decent sort stopped to see if he was ok and by doing so according to the insurance company she accepted some sort of liability and they coughed up even though no contact was made.
So be warned.
So be warned.
04 December 2013, 09:32 AM
#18
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This isn't good 
if you witness an accident ahead of you and stop to offer assistance, phone police and God forbid an ambulance you could find yourself liable for a claim against you? all I can say is, Video Phones start recording before you get out of the car
Very sad state of affairs IMO
if you witness an accident ahead of you and stop to offer assistance, phone police and God forbid an ambulance you could find yourself liable for a claim against you? all I can say is, Video Phones start recording before you get out of the carVery sad state of affairs IMO
04 December 2013, 10:39 AM
#19
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This isn't good if you witness an accident ahead of you and stop to offer assistance, phone police and God forbid an ambulance you could find yourself liable for a claim against you? all I can say is, Video Phones start recording before you get out of the car
Very sad state of affairs IMO
if you witness an accident ahead of you and stop to offer assistance, phone police and God forbid an ambulance you could find yourself liable for a claim against you? all I can say is, Video Phones start recording before you get out of the carVery sad state of affairs IMO
On a more serious note, this wont help with the OP, but I'd suggest everyone getting HD cameras fitted to the front and rear of your cars. It is an absolute saviour in cases like this:
"I didnt make contact and here's the video evidence to prove it."
Plus you can create fun you tube videos of all the idiot drivers you see everyday
Last edited by Lunchmoney; 04 December 2013 at 10:45 AM.
04 December 2013, 10:59 AM
#21
The problem is that it costs the insurers so much to fight the claim that it's cheaper to just pay out.
More insurers are starting to fight these kind of claims, but a lot will take the hit to avoid the costs.
More insurers are starting to fight these kind of claims, but a lot will take the hit to avoid the costs.
04 December 2013, 11:14 AM
#22
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My wife was driving her saxo and a woman slammed on for no reason as she was just about to turn into a corner. My wife slammed on too and they didn't touch, they both got out and said there was no damage but that the woman would get the car checked out as mot coming???
04 December 2013, 12:04 PM
#25
They didn't exchange details as such! My wife got out to see what the woman was playing at! The woman agreed it was her fault and then her fella got out, my wife felt intimidated with my 9 month old in the car so just have her mobile number so she could get out of there!
04 December 2013, 12:09 PM
#26
Cheers Marc
04 December 2013, 01:32 PM
#28
Hi mate what do you think I should say to the insurance company? Like I said our insurance inspector said there was no way our car caused the damaged they were claiming and they also had a tow bar. A saxo against a tow bar and no damage to the saxo WHATSOEVER It would smashed that cheap piece of plastic right in.
Cheers Marc
Cheers Marc
Hopefully you're with an insurer who'll fight the claim and not roll over.
04 December 2013, 02:22 PM
#30