JonMc

iTrader: (51)

I've got a dilema. I bought Ryan's (Prodriverules) old VF34 off him complete with a forge actuator to fit to my WRX. I know it was pulling well and knew the seller so it all made sense. Also the VF34s command good money because they are a good turbo but the question that is now going around in my head is are they really that good - why you ask?

When you trawl through the pages of DV threads people suggest that you can run the TD range of turbos without a DV but advise caution when it comes to doing the same with VF turbos although I did read recently that the later VF turbos, ie the 34 and 35, where fine without a DV.

They features I want from my map without changing the ECU are MAFless, LC, ALS and dual maps so I'm restricted to Carberry from what I understand. I only do a couple of thousand miles a year as the car is just a toy and the ALS and LC would only be used for fun when appropriate and not on all the time.

More recently I've approached a mapper about a map that includes ALS and LC and he has suggested that this is a bad idea on a VF34 and won't do it as it will blow the turbo. I appreciate that anything like this that adds stress will shorten the longentivity of any affected parts whether that be a shaft or roller bearing type turbo but are the VF34s so weak that it will it really result in such a catastrophic failure or is the mapper being over-cautious concerned about his reputation in this era of 'type before you communicate' keyboard warriors - which I really can't blame him for. And to his credit he has informed me at the outset rather than string me along and let me down at the last minute after I have bolted everything up so this is not a witch hunt against a particular mapper just me trying to understand whether or not to pursue the VF34 route or whether to sell it and buy a VF35

chet123

iTrader: (7)

great post and an interesting one mind you Jon. So the long and short of it all is is the Carberry map not recommended for a VF34.
I guess this post will determine whether anyone with a VF34 has.

If carberry isnt recommended on a vf34 surely it would be the same for the vf35

Kedlestone

iTrader: (9)

Can only speak from personal experience, but my VF34 which like yourself I bought second hand has been flawless since fitting and mapping over a year ago now running a not so conservative 346 bhp with AL and LC. Granted I don't use the LC to often due to an old clutch but the AL has performed as it should with no ill effect (touch wood) as yet, however I am running a simtec. For me the turbo gives good low boost throughout the rev range and only runs out of puff when ideally you should be changing up which is what sold me on it.

rickya

iTrader: (18)

The VF34 being roller bearing is more costlier to rebuild than a journal bearing VF35 & the VF35 hence may have higher tolerances? Why do want to go DV delete?

JonMc

iTrader: (51)

I am indifferent about the DV delete and have a forge fitted that works. It's the ALS and LC that I want but have been advised against

JonMc

iTrader: (51)

It's not so much whether it's Carberry, Open Source or any other map but whether or not the VF34 is strong enough to handle occasional ALS and LC use. With Keds above that's now 2 people I know of who have those features.

mantazini

iTrader: (25)

VF serious are less prone to the above mentioned "goodies" then TD range ,specially if their 10-12 years old now.. I know vf35, vf30 are rebuildable , not sure if vf34 is at all , and even if it is . Theres so many more better turbos nowadays i dont think its worth doing it with the costs involved... I couldnt imagine what i could get before i got done billet conversion to my 20G, theres a very clever guy on here , who does wicked stuff for decent price.. Give me a shout Jon if interested..

JonMc

iTrader: (51)

Thing is Mantas, I know the turbo is good and doesn't need a rebuild - I'm just amazed that a turbo that comes so highly rated as a reliable and fast spooling turbo can also be considered so weak

mantazini

iTrader: (25)

Theres o much more pressure on it when you use AL&LC , my VF30 went after cadwell bud, runing no more than 330 , seal's gone... and thats on midd power , what the mapper meant , probably is that if you tend to use them things its keen to **** it self much sooner. And for the sake of all the work involved in the end , its not worth risking it... When you'll have the carberry options i doubt you'll have them for the sake of just having them? You going to use them and AL is what normally kills them... VF34 costs decent money in working order, and it cost nothing when feked, You could probably get a billet 18G , 16G instead of that, and they will cope with the AL etc...

JonMc

iTrader: (51)

It doesn't matter what turbo you fit it's life will be shortened with ALS, it just seems from the fact that the first person I approached wouldn't map the VF34 that they are likely to go almost straight away - I accept that things break especially when you stress them but if the VF34 is going to break the first time I use the ALS I need to look at other options - if the answer is it'll only do 5000 miles with ALS whereas a TD05 will do 15000, well that's 3 years worth of use of which about 500 miles might have the ALS switched on

jura11

iTrader: (7)

Hi Jon

As you know VF34 is and has been used in numerous Rally cars,they using more aggressive ALS/LC than you will be using(or I assume you will be running only mild,which is in most cases just for show off )

About the running DVless you should be OK to run too DVless and as above pointed out Ricky they're more costly to rebuild

All depends on mapper who will be mapping yours and how aggressive ALS/LC you will be have

Assume you be using only for show off,then you should be OK,if you want use aggressive ALS on daily basis then problems with the turbo will/can be yours last worry

Jura

Tidgy

why would you want to run DV less is the question?

veerinder9

iTrader: (1)

Off topic but does dv'less cause lag?

JonMc

iTrader: (51)

I don't want to run DV-less, the question is about whether or not the VF34 would blow a seal or similar if I mapped it with LC and ALS and used them occasionally...

The DV-less piece is another element to the discussions that I have read that people seem to think the roller bearing turbos are less robust and running without a DV is an example of where some people believe you'll prematurely end the life of your turbo - I accept anything that adds stress will reduce the life but nothing lasts forever

Tidgy

doesnt cause lag so to speak, just causes alot of system pressure so loads the components up yet makes sod all difference lol

mantazini

iTrader: (25)

How long rally car engine and components last ?

**jay**

iTrader: (1)

Ran my vf34 for 3 years with al and lc used a bit but not all the time, great turbo.

jura11

iTrader: (7)

How long is piece of string?

As you know VF34 has been mostly used on Group N cars,on WRC guys using think IHI RX series


Jura

53

iTrader: (41)

Few points from experience, no agenda or suggestion as to which way to go

DV'less is excellent for rapid aggressive driving, makes little difference most of the time when driving normally If I were doing it again I would probably invest in a VTA with a heavy spring to achieve 99% of the same thing with a cushion for high boost I wouldn't run DV'less with proper boost over 1.4.

ALS and LC, waste of money unless it's the real deal. Had it on my simtek and frankly all it did was boil the **** off the cooling system LC was fun but killed the transmission. Mapped in pops and bangs whilst childish is a better way to enjoy pissing away petrol

VF34 if anything like the VF28 I've experienced will be awesome, but they all like to crack around the wastegate. The later VF43's were notorious for this and I believe David at APi once said he had a skip full round the back of his yard

If it were me I would focus on performance and a nice tight aggressive map and leave the ALS and LC on the shelf

Just my opinion having tried it and thought, meh

On a more dedicated car with a bigger budget I might be less cautious

JonMc

iTrader: (51)

TBH Stu, I'm tempted to map it with ALS and LC knowing the risks but use it as a test mule - I'd never planned to go down the forged route with a stronger gearbox but if it survives long enough for me to convince the Mrs it's finished I can buy the kit car kit and donor and then innocently claim it just broke and have 2 projects on the go - feeds the need for a double garage too

53

iTrader: (41)

PMSL The VF34 must be good anyway they put it in the S202

APIDavid

iTrader: (4)

ALS & Launch are not 'toys', they are serious working improvements if used correctly.

I had launch on my 04 JDM STi blob and used it to demonstrate launch for customer who were not sure what they were getting. It is / was brutal and once demonstrated I mostly got " wow!, that is extreme I am not doing that to my car ".

Similarly, proper ALS using a jacked open throttle etc., etc., is harsh on a car. On a road car it should be used sparingly as it redirects so much heat back into the headers and heads and valves that EGT could reach critical very quickly.
It can also unsettle the ICV to the point that idle goes all funny and until the ICV recovers you may have stalling issue or over-revving issues, in fact anything controlled by the ICV is at risk.

Most people want ALS to make noises and sound 'cool' when they drive around. If that is your thing then good luck. I usually spend 20 minutes explaining the above and why it is not a good idea. Some listen, some don't.

I'd be happy to run any good looking VF30 upwards without a DV.

David APi

53

iTrader: (41)

Spot on The old adage, "just because you can doesn't mean you should"

JonMc

iTrader: (51)

If nothing else this has been an education - certainly getting a Carberry ROM map with twin maps and it gives me food for thought for the LC and ALS. Not in any rush as I still have some work to do before it goes in