crazyspeedfreakz

iTrader: (92)

Hi guys and girls ...

Bit of advice required... I saw a car that I was intrested in buying via eBay I spoke to the seller via texts and phone call and agreed a price that we was both happy with and also agreed on a £200 deposit to remove the car from eBay.

I was unable to go and view the car and was aware some work needed doing to the bodywork of the car which I though thats fair enough as long as the rest is sound it was a good price and was happy to take the bodywork on.

So I pay the person via PayPal the £200 requested and arrange how i was going to pay the remaing balance... Now I should say ths guy was helpfull in terms that he provided email photos of bills to show his current address etc so I no the guy is who he says he is as I couldn't view the car in the time required.

Now here's were it the popcorn comes out ! I had a final few questions the night b4 the car was due to be picked up at the same time he sent accross the copy of his bills as proof I also asked him to send a email photo of the v5 to show his name and address on the v5 his response was that the car was not in his name but in the previous owners name.
Now I now this guy has only had the car a very short while like about a month and a half but its his car and has the full v5 not just the slip and still in the previous owners name. ??

At this point I start wondering and decide to do as much digging on the car a pos, so I entered the car reg on google and guess what it throws up !! scoobynet !! So I start reading the post about this current guy going to buy the car only a short while ago so then I check his current posts / threads & I find that the engine has issues which he has asked help for, after reading the engine issue and the fact the car wasn't registered currently in his name I back out off the deal explaining that due to the engine issues and v5 not currently in his name I was worried that the car want for me. I then cancelled the collection driver for the following day at my expense.
Then i also asked for a refund of the £200 due to the above in which he said NO !!
Now I no the person I'm talking about will read this I'm more than happy for you to put your point accross, all I'm looking for is people general opinions as to wether I should be entitled to my money back, I'm not gonna name names but I felt this guy was genuine and now I feel annoyed at been £200 down.

I have no doubt the car is his just combined with everything else I pulled out should I be entitled to my £200 back...

Thanks for taking the time to read this in advance...

haulagepro

Bit of a tricky one this to be honest, if the person is a trader that could explain why the v5 is not in their name. Now regards to deposit paid, i'm afraid in most cases you wouldn't be able to claim it back. lets just say you had bought it from a trader or a dealership, they would ask for a non returnable deposit to hold it for you. Now this is where it gets tricky- if you had purchased from a trader and paid in full, you could demand a refund or replacement under what is called the sale of goods act 1974 due to the car not being fit for purpose or as described (this act also stands when the car is advertised sold as seen). but i'm afraid if you bought from private seller then you pretty much don't have a leg to stand on. apart from maybe pursuing through the small claims court. hope this helps you a little

thenewgalaxy

Well I'll get my point across, assuming the OP has the story and all details 100% straight.

First off, I've been shafted on eBay. It's put me off using it to be honest.

If it is exactly what you said there is a lesson to be learned that you should have done more homework on the car before putting down your deposit. Thankfully you have done that before parting with more money!

However, the seller would appear to have deliberately misrepresented the facts and therefore has actively deceived you.

For that reason it is my understanding that you could pursue this further. If he is reading it would be a good thing to give it back not only from a legal stance but also that of being an honest and decent person.

scoobynutta555

I suppose it's cost you £200 but saved you potentially paying for a new engine. Who knows if the person in question is a trader or not. It comes down to the wording of the deposit I guess whether you're due any money back.

McFartenplop

Bit of jumping in too soon I think? Paying a deposit then googling the reg number? Could've saved £200 doing it the other way around.

Bit of a 50/50 IMO,

Perhaps ask for a £100 refund and lesson learned?

Midlife......

iTrader: (2)

The deposit was to remove the car from sale, since you did not complete the sale then the seller is entitled to reclaim any costs involved in this action......this is irrespective of what was for sale be it a car or a t-shirt.

I would expect the seller to claim £25 quid from you for his inconvenience and refund you £175....

Shaun

tony de wonderful

OP used PayPal, he should take it up with them. Paypal usually side with the buyer.

Dreep

V5 does send alarm bells ringing straight away. I did what you've done albieth the other way round and did ALOT of digging on the car Ive just bought just now before committing to anything. I pretty much know ALL the cars history since it entered the UK.

I would also be put off if the seller is also a member on here asking questions about engine problems ect.
If you directly asked him a question such as 'is the car running ok' or 'is the engine in a healthy running state' to which he replied 'Yes' , technically, this can land him in the poop due to misinforming (lie) you during sale.
The only thing the seller has against you is the fact that he removed the advert from eBay thus preventing other buyers from viewing the advert in turn loss of interest.
All in all, the seller should IMO refund you at least some of it back if not it all and just get on with it. If he decides to be an **** about it just name and shame so people know to steer clear of that car whom are active on this forum.

Next time research first then commit to deposit/buy.

lordharding

iTrader: (1)

Yes afraid you have lost the £200
Unless he was a trader ,then you have different rights as mentioned earlier
Best you negotiate say £100 partial refund
And knowing you have saved lots of ££££££

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

What's the engine problem?

As far as i'm concerned if the fault was something terminal and he's put it up for sale without disclosing the problem then he owes you £200 and i'd be off down to his house to get the money, regardless of what it cost me to get there, just out of principal.

or you could try paypal.

domino46

You have lost your 200 IMO as that's what putting a deposit down is all about ,,,ie I give you this 200 for you to keep the car for me till I'm ready to buy it ,,,if you back out for any reason then its you that should lose the deposit as someone can't be expected to hold a car for you while you decide weather its for you or not as your ment to do your research first

stonejedi

iTrader: (51)

Kiss your £200 goodbye,as you said it was a deposit for the car and to take it off of ebay.wether you purchase the car was down to you,and saying you don't want it now after arranging to buy it is totally your decision,but according to your research was most proberly the right one,but I personally still would not expect the deposit back.SJ.

stuart148

iTrader: (12)

the man lied about the engine probs , so get your cash back
if you payed by PayPal just put a dispute in and let PayPal decide

stuart148

iTrader: (12)

and if he his on here get a grip mate and stop trying to scam people with a car with engine probs

can't stand ***** like this , just be honest, it will get you more sales in future rather than trying to make a few hundred out of a car that's fu&£@

gpssti4

iTrader: (6)

I had something similar years ago.

I agreed to buy a car from someone in the trade and to meet him at a car show. When he turned up with the car it was clearly 'not as described'. It was late in the evening and getting dark. I said that I wasn't happy as it needed quite a bit of work doing and that I'd like a refund of my deposit which I'd paid via PayPal. Unsurprisingly, he said no and that unless I bought the car I'd lose the money.

In the morning I decided that I'd have another look and then make a decision. I went and found the seller, but the car had gone, in fact he sold it to someone at the show. He still wouldn't refund the money 'because I'd messed him around'!!!

I contacted PayPal and told them the whole story and they advised that cars are not covered by themselves and that they'd not refund my money.

So, whilst the OP has my sympathy, I don't think that going through PayPal will get your money back. If the seller is on here I'd name and shame as the pressure of scoobynet may help you get your deposit back.

Oldun

Misrepresented sale is not on.
Money back or name and shame by putting up the eBay ad or reg no to protect other members..

MattyB1983

iTrader: (51)

If the car does have mechanical issues that were not disclosed in the advert then yes, you are entitled to all your money back.

If it was me, I'd have a drive over to the guy. Inspect the car thoroughly, if it isn't how described in his advert then demand your money back.
If the car is how he described then you've lost your money.

LuckyWelshchap

I think every piece of advice given is good advice.

The issue though is one of which of the circumstances applies in this case?

Yes, if you asked a question which he wrongly answered (is the car running OK?) - then he's misrepresented and there should be some sort of comeback for that (anything in writing, email etc?)

No, because by paying a deposit you could be deemed to be entering into a contract and in theory you could be chased for the remainder.

In the extreme (in fact absurd) situation that you were hauled into a Small Claims Court for the rest then of course the whole situation would be taken into account and it's quite likely that there wouldn't be a judgement against you.

So, let's leave the legal bits out and concentrate on the morals.
Name and reputation should be more important than the amount of money we're talking about. (If not then there's something seriously wrong somewhere).

* It's not fair (I'd go farther but then...) to try to sell a car that you know is going to cost the buyer more money. The fact that it goes on and is seen by a lot of people as part of the business of buying cars is not acceptable.
* It's been tried in this case and hasn't worked out as planned.
* The car and this story could end up splattered all over the Net, making it either unsellable or with a marked decrease in the price.
* The seller has every right to try to sell it and it has cost them money (and a possible sale to someone else in the meantime) to withdraw the car from E-bay and they have incurred expenses from that.

I'd therefore suggest that both parties agree on a fair figure for the expenses, get it sorted and then let sleeping dogs lie.

If this does escalate there will be one person £200 down and another perhaps a lot more, in terms of a greatly reduced selling price.

Finally, act quickly.
If the car goes then there's no moral hold.
Email them with a link to this thread and ask their views.
Set yourself a deadline, after which you'll take whatever action you decide.

It's far better for both to come out with a little credit than feeling that they are fools to themselves. (And I don't think that of the OP. I haven't heard the other party's side of course, so can't comment).

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

This ^^^^

The item was misrepresented. Take him to small claims court!

scoobynutta555

If he's a private seller then he doesn't have to disclose anything unless directly asked.

LuckyWelshchap

Yes, one of my points.

If they were asked 'have you had any problems in the last couple of months?' for example and they said 'no' then the fact they were asking for advice on here proves they lied, and there it's misrepresentation.

As I've said, all the advice given here would be correct in the right circumstances. It's the circumstances of this that determines which is the best advice in this particular case.

It won't do much good trying to get a judgement on the matter, legally or for that matter by a straw poll here (not saying that's what the OP meant).
Just look at the differing advice and views we've had.

A compromise is best.

I'll look at it from the buyer's part. They took a calculated risk that the car was what they wanted, that it was OK and that a deposit was refundable and given that time was short they took the risk. Result - money spent, perhaps lost, but much money saved.

Now the seller. They can afford to come down £200 because they've got this deposit that they're holding on to, could even make an extra £200 if someone else pays the full asking price (less readvertising costs). Result - money gained, but potentially much money lost if this gets out before its sold, and perhaps a lot of hassle from the eventual buyer if they discover that there were known faults, perhaps by discovering this thread.

I know which one I'd want to be if I wanted a reasonable night's sleep.

tony de wonderful

Really? So if he advertises a 'wheel' and you get something which manifestly isn't a wheel from a functional point of view that is ok?

scoobynutta555

It's still a wheel. It's up to the buyer if they purchase. Buyer beware unless from a trader or wilfully lied to when directly asked questions as to its condition.

In any case this is regarding a non refundable deposit not a purchase.

MDS_WRX

iTrader: (1)

It depends on how it was described. Trading Standards simply state:

You have no right to expect that the vehicle is of satisfactory quality or fit for its purpose, but there is a requirement that it should be 'as described'. For example, if an advertisement says 'low mileage, one previous owner', it must be correct.

So in terms of the vehicle (not the wheel ) the seller does not have to disclose any potential problems with it. However, if they have been asked a question, their reply is now part of that description. So,

• If the OP specifically asked a relevant question and was told there no issues then it is not as described.
• If the OP did not ask a specific question relating to the issues it had then the seller has legally done what is required of them.

tony de wonderful

Ok sure, but certain 'problems' would mean it wouldn't even fit the description of 'vehicle'. For example if they advertised a 'vehicle' and you get an engineless shell. So it isn't just the case that they can get away with anything so long as they don't mention it.

MDS_WRX

iTrader: (1)

Of course yes, a shell clearly isn't a vehicle. I haven't seen the original advert but assuming it just states that the car is for sale (but does not mention any engine problems) then I imagine that any court/law would class that as being a "vehicle".

I think the only question to answer is required from the OP;

Did the original advert state it had no engine issues, or did any questions you asked the seller describe it as having no issues?

Until we know that I would guess that no-one knows whether the OP is legally (and morally) entitled to a refund.

tubbytommy

iTrader: (20)

Kick him in the **** the lying ****.....

LuckyWelshchap

IMO spot on

I do however think it poor form to advertise a car that you know to be in need of repair, unless of course the price reflects that.

LuckyWelshchap

Priceless.
One of the best examples of an oxymoron I've ever seen

crazyspeedfreakz

iTrader: (92)

Sorry I've haven't posted people, I've been monitoring the thread to see people responses seems a bit 50/50. I was interested in people views but am unable to post the sellers details as I don't wanna affect any refund on deposit I may get hopefully ! ?

What I will say is this isn't a trader issue so private sale via eBay, the original advert stated that the car was mechanically correct, and has had a rebuild to forged internals in the last few years, I'm not disputing the rebuild just the Engine issue i believe it has due to posts I have read.

I can also confirm the seller has been incontact with me since he read the add but
what I would like to point out is the bloke says its not his snet acc and that he shares with a friend and that the info I read was relating to his friends car which I must point out is the same type impreza with the same aftermarket ecu and the same bodywork issues in the same town :/

so this isn't compleatly bias on my half in the add it dose state that the car can be checked over prior to sale !?

Like I said before I'm not gonna name names but I just feel gutted at losing £200, I no this is partly my fault or not googling the np earlier but I had done everything else including a car check and getting the buyer details which I should point out he was happy to do.

The thing that gets me is the guy seems genuine when I have spoken to him !! ?? Feel like its a head f**k anyway that's my update.