Chocolate syncro's on 6 speed gear boxes
18 July 2013, 06:06 AM
#1
Chocolate syncro's on 6 speed gear boxes
Hello STI fanboys.
Ok so i'm ever so slightly taking the P!SS and i'm sure i'll be accused of trolling by someone
But on a serious note and just in the interest of fairness and a small amount of curiosity.
Who has had problems with a 6 speed or knows someone that has.
Now I don't want this to turn into a which box is best thread because all of us in the know already know it's the 5 speed
but I am genuinely curious to know just exactly how fantastic or not as the case may be the six speed box is.
I know it's a bit of a how long is a piece of string question but i'd also be interested to know what sort of miles they "showed signs of problems" at and what the problem was, along with what kind of abuse it had taken, ie: drag strip / track use or just general day to day use with the odd blast.
Ok so i'm ever so slightly taking the P!SS and i'm sure i'll be accused of trolling by someone
But on a serious note and just in the interest of fairness and a small amount of curiosity.
Who has had problems with a 6 speed or knows someone that has.
Now I don't want this to turn into a which box is best thread because all of us in the know already know it's the 5 speed
but I am genuinely curious to know just exactly how fantastic or not as the case may be the six speed box is.I know it's a bit of a how long is a piece of string question but i'd also be interested to know what sort of miles they "showed signs of problems" at and what the problem was, along with what kind of abuse it had taken, ie: drag strip / track use or just general day to day use with the odd blast.
18 July 2013, 07:07 AM
#4
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The gearbox is strong in its own right for road use
I would imagine heavy shifting & sustained abuse the dogs would wear causing gear slip & false neutral etc . If you had deep pockets & wanted more
KAPS transmissions do a full upgrade using the original casings
Or a full bling bling sequential gearbox rated to over 800nm torque
Incidentally how often do you guys check & replace your gear oil ?
I would imagine heavy shifting & sustained abuse the dogs would wear causing gear slip & false neutral etc . If you had deep pockets & wanted more
KAPS transmissions do a full upgrade using the original casings
Or a full bling bling sequential gearbox rated to over 800nm torque
Incidentally how often do you guys check & replace your gear oil ?
18 July 2013, 07:26 AM
#5
For those that don't know, the reason I asked, and it really is a genuine question, is Max aka Hurst cars mentioned on another thread that he's had to replace the syncro's on two 6 speed gear boxes recently, so I just wanted to see exactly how many had experienced problems.
I'd actually like to discover that problems are few and far between or more a case of poor maintenance, which is probably most likely as not too many people get involved with their gear box until there is a problem.
There's plenty of info about 5 speed failures/problems but nothing much gets said about the 6 speed, now I know that's because generally speaking they are more reliable and can take big power.
I'd actually like to discover that problems are few and far between or more a case of poor maintenance, which is probably most likely as not too many people get involved with their gear box until there is a problem.
There's plenty of info about 5 speed failures/problems but nothing much gets said about the 6 speed, now I know that's because generally speaking they are more reliable and can take big power.
18 July 2013, 07:34 AM
#6
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5th gear is the common one so I believe my last impreza had a crunchy 5th if you snatched for it at high rpm. Was far from knackered though. Lad on here got the car and still seems to be fine. Didn't get any worse in over the year I had it. Am sure after 2003 they changed the material of components used in the box fixing the problem.
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18 July 2013, 07:50 AM
#8
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My 4th syncro has gone ish ,,,but its had a very very hard life and gets abused like you wouldn't believe ,,,it came from a 80k ish car and I abused it from day one and have prob put another 10k very hard miles on it and to be honest its got loads left in it if I didn't want to smash it around the track every weekend and go from 5th to 4th and high speeds ,,,but whatever box you have in 5 or 6 if you drive it like I do then it will need rebuilding one day anyway so why worry just get on and have fun with it ,,,my 5 speed didn't last at half the power the 6 speed is running and I never go to the strip so didn't see the point in building a 5 speed as I like my car to be in the right rev range when I'm out on the track
18 July 2013, 07:57 AM
#9
I bought an early 6 speed for my V3 STI & had to have all the synchros replaced at great expense. The replacements were modified as are the ones in the later boxes. If doing it again I'd pay more money for a late low milage box.
18 July 2013, 09:37 AM
#16
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The only problem I have had with my 6 speed followed a premature oil change.
Having fitted a new engine and with a track day pending, I thought it would be a good idea to change the gearbox oil. I duly bought some Redline 75/90 and stuck it in. Within 50 miles I was experiencing difficulty downshifting into 4th. On the track day it was dramatically worse and was getting severe synchro crunching on all but the softest downshifts, again all 4th gear.
I went to Zen Performance to see what would be the fix and it turns out (as some of you will have already guessed) that I used the wrong oil.
It should have been 75/90NS
I have since bought some Redline Heavy Shockproof oil and all is back to normal again. It did have me worried for a while though
Having fitted a new engine and with a track day pending, I thought it would be a good idea to change the gearbox oil. I duly bought some Redline 75/90 and stuck it in. Within 50 miles I was experiencing difficulty downshifting into 4th. On the track day it was dramatically worse and was getting severe synchro crunching on all but the softest downshifts, again all 4th gear.
I went to Zen Performance to see what would be the fix and it turns out (as some of you will have already guessed) that I used the wrong oil.
It should have been 75/90NS
I have since bought some Redline Heavy Shockproof oil and all is back to normal again. It did have me worried for a while though
18 July 2013, 11:04 AM
#18
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5th gear is the common one so I believe my last impreza had a crunchy 5th if you snatched for it at high rpm. Was far from knackered though. Lad on here got the car and still seems to be fine. Didn't get any worse in over the year I had it. Am sure after 2003 they changed the material of components used in the box fixing the problem.
Definitely doesn't warrant a £650 recon yet
I might try this redline shockproof stuff see if actually changes owt.
Mick
18 July 2013, 11:26 AM
#19
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There are two grades available, light and heavy. I went for the heavy as I needed maximum benefit in case I had damaged any components through using the wrong oil.
Alyn was very helpful, as were the guys at Zen for that matter.
18 July 2013, 01:36 PM
#20
Found it being mainly 2003 model blob sti's, widetrack and hawks no where near as much. Tried gearbox oil i.e redline etc on numerous occasions, i'm yet to have one where this "magic oil" has fixed the problem. I do hope im wrong as its far cheaper trying that than a rebuild but only adds to the expenses if it's going to get rebuilt at the end of it all.
18 July 2013, 01:39 PM
#21
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despite claims, 6 speeders arn;t bullet proof, they do suffer with weak syncro's. road cars tend to be ok, but i do know a couple of folks who have shat them in race/track cars.
18 July 2013, 02:25 PM
#23
Rich out with his wooden spoon again
In my experience when something is said to be bulletproof it usually comes with one or two provisos. Namely that some people will see that tag as a challenge and WHEN not IF they break said componentry it will be labelled as being anything but bulletproof. The six speeder is a good robust gearbox which will stand a lot of abuse but give an idiot enough rope.....
When Subaru launched the newage STI they spent a lot of money on engineering the new gearbox. They enlisted the help of Porsche in the design of the six speeder. This gearbox will handle huge power and a lot of track abuse. For the road and on a modified STI it will be fine but throw in the factors of highly modified and track use on a regular basis then yes it 'may' fail. I wouldn't call it chocolate, I'd reserve that accolade for the pistons in the 2.5s
Now there's another can of worms.
In my experience when something is said to be bulletproof it usually comes with one or two provisos. Namely that some people will see that tag as a challenge and WHEN not IF they break said componentry it will be labelled as being anything but bulletproof. The six speeder is a good robust gearbox which will stand a lot of abuse but give an idiot enough rope.....
When Subaru launched the newage STI they spent a lot of money on engineering the new gearbox. They enlisted the help of Porsche in the design of the six speeder. This gearbox will handle huge power and a lot of track abuse. For the road and on a modified STI it will be fine but throw in the factors of highly modified and track use on a regular basis then yes it 'may' fail. I wouldn't call it chocolate, I'd reserve that accolade for the pistons in the 2.5s
Now there's another can of worms.
18 July 2013, 03:15 PM
#24
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Tbh I don't think its ever done it while I've had it mate lol, once or twice its been notchy changing down from 6th at speed by its never actually "crunched" into gear.
Definitely doesn't warrant a £650 recon yet
I might try this redline shockproof stuff see if actually changes owt.
Mick
Definitely doesn't warrant a £650 recon yet
I might try this redline shockproof stuff see if actually changes owt.
Mick
18 July 2013, 03:53 PM
#26
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Don't try and beat the syncro's........ that is one of the reasons for these box's having issues.
My old MY03 SPEC C 6sp took a right beating (competition use, track use, drag use etc) and never caused me any issues. The above can be a contributory factor.
My old MY03 SPEC C 6sp took a right beating (competition use, track use, drag use etc) and never caused me any issues. The above can be a contributory factor.
18 July 2013, 04:44 PM
#28
Only in the interest of a little clarity.
Absolutely, which is pretty much what I thought and said as much on the other thread.
In my experience when something is said to be bulletproof it usually comes with one or two provisos. Namely that some people will see that tag as a challenge and WHEN not IF they break said componentry it will be labelled as being anything but bulletproof. The six speeder is a good robust gearbox which will stand a lot of abuse but give an idiot enough rope.....
When Subaru launched the newage STI they spent a lot of money on engineering the new gearbox. They enlisted the help of Porsche in the design of the six speeder. This gearbox will handle huge power and a lot of track abuse. For the road and on a modified STI it will be fine but throw in the factors of highly modified and track use on a regular basis then yes it 'may' fail. I wouldn't call it chocolate, I'd reserve that accolade for the pistons in the 2.5s Now there's another can of worms.
Now there's another can of worms.
18 July 2013, 04:51 PM
#30
So pretty much as I thought then, STI's are shoit and a waste of money buying one because not only are the ratio's crap and the seats horrible, the gear boxes **** themselves too.
5 Speed PPG FTW.
5 Speed PPG FTW.
Last edited by ditchmyster; 18 July 2013 at 04:53 PM.