serpico

All, I'm thinking of uprating my intercooler (on my classic my00 turbo) to either a front mount intercooler or a newage sti top mount. I'm only aiming at 320-330bhp with supporting mods.
How hard is it to fit a newage a newage sti tmic & has anyone here done this or with it be easier & better to go with an aftermarket fmic?
Cheers

Tidgy

front mount, no question.

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

Guide for STi TMIC onto classic here: http://www.scoobypedia.co.uk/index.p...ntoMY00Classic

You will also need a undertray arrangement. Additionally found it very tight around bulkhead which needed some hammering to minimise fouling.

Worth considering adding some type of waterspray arrangement to help with heatsoak.

If you go with a FMIC, don't fit a cheap and nasty one.

Tidgy

and by the time you've done that you may as well go front mount lol

serpico

Cheers, it seems there is fair bit of fettling to go with the sti tmic. What sort of makes fmic should I be looking for & what sort of prices? I have seen some cheap kits on eBay. I take it they're not up to the job?

gpssti4

iTrader: (6)

There will be faffing with either a front mount or a newage top mount. If only going for circa 330bhp then a newage top mount is fine and will keep the standard look. These sometimes come up in the for sale section and occasionally with a fitting kit for a classic. My Type R is running around 370bhp on a newage TMIC.

Tidgy

or would have been about 380-390 on a fm,, lol

Coc-ker

iTrader: (1)

Some interesting reading.

https://www.scoobynet.com/scoobynet-general-1/954531-bhp-difference-tmic-and-fmic.html

Tidgy and Felly have had this subject out at length!

MattyB1983

iTrader: (51)

Id always go front mount over top mount.

Tidgy

Hehehe, yeah its a long standing subject

Scoobyclinic and harvey (RIP) have done back to back testing, in harveys case he spent alot of his ownt time on the subject and they came up with the same answers. Somethign to bar in mind it isn't all about peak power, its about what you dont loose when temps go up.

Funniest thing on that thread is john felstead, he's spent £2000 yep 2 grand on a chevron top mount, yet never tried a front mount and argues the top mount is better than a front mount would be. What he bases that on i dont know, but we agree to disagree on this one hahaha

As sid in that thread, on a TD04 then theres no point in changing either the top mount or switching to a front mount, however once you change the turbo then its well worth switchign to a front mount. Taking into account the top mount isn;t a direct fit and needs work as well then to me its a no brainer.

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

If you want a quality one, fit a Hybrid GT2 Spec: http://www.superhids.co.uk/hybrid-hd...ts-fmics-.html

If you want something cheap and aren't too bothered by performance, take your pick of the generic ones all around here and ebay for £200.

serpico

Interesting mate, is it a straight swap or will it require modifying to fit on like the sti tmic? If so they're much cheaper in comparison & maybe a better cost effective mod.

stevebt

iTrader: (8)

I would go with an STI TMIC over a FMIC at such low power ever time, I had a td05/6 20g mapped ages ago and on the tmic it was fantastic but as soon as I added a fmic it may of had more power but it lost all its fun .

I have a huge turbo and I tell others a few rpm for spool isn't a big deal when you spec up to a larger intercooler, as it really isn't but on such a low power car to loose rpm for the sake of an intercooler seems silly.

The sti8 inter cooler will sell easily if your not happy but a fmic will require a few more mods to make you happy.


Coming from a big turbo I don't see the problem of lag as when my turbo comes on song its in a different league to normal cars but most people require really early spool and nothing beats the STI 8 tmic with a low powered turbo

serpico

Very interesting read. Both with valid points. Think for my mediokre power hike a tmic will perhaps suffice.

serpico

That looks like a smart piece of kit mate. Tho Its not cheap but I appreciate you get what you pay for etc but a nice discount from a group buy or special scoobynet offer may make it a bit more tempting for me! ;-)

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

It's very cheap for what it is. You won't find any intercoolers even at twice the price that are as good.

They sell themselves really at that price and there is very little in it for us.

ditchmyster

iTrader: (7)

I think it depends what the car is predominantly used for along with what your ultimate power goal is.

If your heading above 350bhp and tracking the car then fmic all the way.

If your only going to around 350bhp and won't see the track and just the odd sprited blast for 10mins at a time then there's no real point in cutting the bumper and going to the extra expense as well as introducing more lag.

You need the right tool for the job.

serpico

You have a point there. I doubt I'll be surpassing 350 bhp. Well not for now anyway. Eventually I may go for a forged 2.5 or sti engine with 6 speed box etc but that's a way off. So perhaps tmic may be the way to go. The question is will my standard tmic cope or will I need a newage one?

serpico

It is a very tasty bit of kit mate. I've read in places f I were to reverse the manifold where the throttle body etc is (if I've got it right) I will reduce lag caused by fmic but will this kit still fit or mate up?
Cheers

MattyB1983

iTrader: (51)

You will require custom pipework if rotating the inlet manifold.
Increased lag due to front mount fitment is a setup issue and can be (with a decent mapper) brought to an unnoticeable level.
If I was heading for circa 350bhp then a front mounted intercooler would certainly be on my list.

johnfelstead

It must hurt your head too much to understand. I've driven plenty of Impreza's with all configurations thanks, been driving these things since the 90's and have been running turbo cars since the ark.

I've never won anything with a TMIC equipped car though, err, hang on a minute.

gpssti4

iTrader: (6)

It's almost a straight swap, I bought mine which had been modified by Zen Performance (IIRC). You do need all the associated brackets etc, and you'll need to trim the brake reservoir.

If you can find one second hand it's a straightforward mod and easier than a front mount. Supposedly good for 'around' 400bhp with the correct associated mods. So it should be fine if you're 'only' looking for 330bhp.





Maybe.......

serpico

Cheers mate. I think I'll stick with a newage tmic for now in that case as even with my planned mods I wouldn't really go over 330bhp.

Tidgy

Then you should no better, or have you tried a front mount on your car yet?

shall we not start all this again and just carry on agreeing to disagree?

johnfelstead

LOL as thought you just don't get it.

Tidgy

john, you don't get it, you can;t even answer a yes or no question.

have you tried a front mount on your current setup as it is now? we both know the answer is no, so how can you say its better?

the things i refer to are back to back test, done on same day, same mapper, same car, same tank of fuel.

I'm not sure why you wont accept your wrong, o and since were not on 22b you cant ban me for challenging your theorys. lol

MattyB1983

iTrader: (51)

Here we go again, im waiting for the logs to get posted up...lol...

Tidgy

hahah he will, at least he'll post the logs of his £2000 top mount with no comparison of any use

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

Rotating the inlet manifold is only a consideration for those squeezing the final few % out of their competitive cars. For the vast majority reversing the inlet manifold is not worth the hassle for the small gain.

MattyB1983

iTrader: (51)

Heres a quote from Bob himself.

".Since I have now mapped several cars using both the Chevron ultimate F1 cored TMIC and the lower cost budget version I have to say they are impressive, the f1 core is fantastic and on the road is the equal of a FMIC. But, yes, its expensive, the core is the very same used for F1 coolers (oil, fuel etc) and is very high efficiency .cheersbob"

Bob himself said the super expensive top mount that john uses is equal to a front mount. A front mount that costs a damb sight less than 2K.
So, if the 2K top mount is equal to a front mount that would lead me to believe a bog standard sti top mount is a far worse option than a front mount.

So if you haven't got 2 grand to throw at a top mount then a front mount at quarter of that price is a far better option.