Cold air intake kits .. a warning.
21 March 2013, 03:55 PM
#1
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Cold air intake kits .. a warning.
We've said this before, but far too many of these flippin kits are actually cold and WET. We've got one here now with water dripping out of the MAF..
I'd rather see my air filters in the dry thanks.
I'd rather see my air filters in the dry thanks.
21 March 2013, 04:16 PM
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Yep, the ones that suck water up like those lorries you see trundling about cleaning drains.
21 March 2013, 05:49 PM
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No ill effects, put it that way, other than wet MAF internals. Sorted now.
Of course it could be that we're all peeing in the river, as it's a Monsoon down here right now. Much more rain, and you could stick the filter to the headlining and still have problems!
Of course it could be that we're all peeing in the river, as it's a Monsoon down here right now. Much more rain, and you could stick the filter to the headlining and still have problems!
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21 March 2013, 06:30 PM
#8
Steady up fella, you'll fall off that horse.
For reasons noted above. Would the MAF in the car detailed by the op be full of water if the filter was in the bay?
Do you actually think they lower intake temps or increase power like advertised??
Yes the filter remains cool but the intake pipe still gets piping hot where it runs between the block and manifold.
I watched a video (YouTube iirc) where different filters and air feeds were tested against a standard air box to see if they made a difference to power and temps. Guess what the outcome was?
I see the attraction of these inner wing kits, if nothing else the shiny pipe work looks nice in the bay. But putting your filter down where there is a chance of it getting soaking wet is crazy. If (which I doubt) they do lower temps or increase power over a normal filter setup is it worth it. I'm sure Alan has seen many wet MAFS in his time.
For reasons noted above. Would the MAF in the car detailed by the op be full of water if the filter was in the bay?
Do you actually think they lower intake temps or increase power like advertised??
Yes the filter remains cool but the intake pipe still gets piping hot where it runs between the block and manifold.
I watched a video (YouTube iirc) where different filters and air feeds were tested against a standard air box to see if they made a difference to power and temps. Guess what the outcome was?
I see the attraction of these inner wing kits, if nothing else the shiny pipe work looks nice in the bay. But putting your filter down where there is a chance of it getting soaking wet is crazy. If (which I doubt) they do lower temps or increase power over a normal filter setup is it worth it. I'm sure Alan has seen many wet MAFS in his time.
Last edited by MattyB1983; 21 March 2013 at 06:38 PM.
21 March 2013, 07:23 PM
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Unfortunately there are a good number of tuning parts that are only theoretical.
We tend to go for as big an air filter as possible in the bay.
We tend to go for as big an air filter as possible in the bay.
21 March 2013, 07:35 PM
#13
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Steady up fella, you'll fall off that horse.
For reasons noted above. Would the MAF in the car detailed by the op be full of water if the filter was in the bay?
Do you actually think they lower intake temps or increase power like advertised??
Yes the filter remains cool but the intake pipe still gets piping hot where it runs between the block and manifold.
I watched a video (YouTube iirc) where different filters and air feeds were tested against a standard air box to see if they made a difference to power and temps. Guess what the outcome was?
I see the attraction of these inner wing kits, if nothing else the shiny pipe work looks nice in the bay. But putting your filter down where there is a chance of it getting soaking wet is crazy. If (which I doubt) they do lower temps or increase power over a normal filter setup is it worth it. I'm sure Alan has seen many wet MAFS in his time.
For reasons noted above. Would the MAF in the car detailed by the op be full of water if the filter was in the bay?
Do you actually think they lower intake temps or increase power like advertised??
Yes the filter remains cool but the intake pipe still gets piping hot where it runs between the block and manifold.
I watched a video (YouTube iirc) where different filters and air feeds were tested against a standard air box to see if they made a difference to power and temps. Guess what the outcome was?
I see the attraction of these inner wing kits, if nothing else the shiny pipe work looks nice in the bay. But putting your filter down where there is a chance of it getting soaking wet is crazy. If (which I doubt) they do lower temps or increase power over a normal filter setup is it worth it. I'm sure Alan has seen many wet MAFS in his time.
I, like many, have ran inner wing kits with no ill effects. I actually did a fair bit of testing in this area.. like so many have done before me. No way would I stick with any method of inlet if it was "stupid". Neither would the many thousands of people or perhaps more specific, reputable tuners.... on their own cars.
I don't know about you or anybody else, but I don't have a tendancy of driving through 2ft of water to warrant injesting water through my inlet.
If everything post turbo was the real deal, then why does increased ambient temps increase charge temps? The cooler you can get the air prior to the turbo, helps the resultant temps the intercooler has to deal with, thus effecting the charge temps entering the engine.
These kits can work really well, especially when the inner wing box section is retained and a ram air effect via an appropriate inlet hole (from the front of the car) into the inner wing is constructed or kept.
I prefer to make comment on what I have tested personally, rather than what videos I have seen on the internet.
21 March 2013, 08:02 PM
#15
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I'm interested by all this as its not long ago I was looking at an alternative to my CAI due to my filter having rusted and rotted away to nowt, if I had the time/money I would return to oe air box with updated filter.
I think mine was seeing excess water due to the arch liner being cracked badly infront of the wheel underneath so the spray off the road/puddles was finding its way in.
It's not ideal by any means but I couldn't afford to have the car mapped again after reverting back to the standard air box setup, so I fitted a foam type filter instead of a gauze cone type filter, after all its been running like this for approx 3-4 years lol.
Mick
I think mine was seeing excess water due to the arch liner being cracked badly infront of the wheel underneath so the spray off the road/puddles was finding its way in.
It's not ideal by any means but I couldn't afford to have the car mapped again after reverting back to the standard air box setup, so I fitted a foam type filter instead of a gauze cone type filter, after all its been running like this for approx 3-4 years lol.
Mick
21 March 2013, 08:08 PM
#18
Remember this thread is titled warning not these are pap don't buy them remove them all now or your suck water in from the local canal.
Its more down to respect from the end user and knowing what could happen and how to treat the modification (ie not driving through floods or large puddles etc)
I'm sure these kits are quite effective and I can't see the little bit of pipe suffering heat soak to the level it would effect the results of a caik the speed that air is being sucked into the turbo would not have chance to heat up pre turbo obviously to a level you would notice.
Look after your car and you won't run into issues seen by Alan Jeffrey a wet filter is neglect pure and simple.
Its more down to respect from the end user and knowing what could happen and how to treat the modification (ie not driving through floods or large puddles etc)
I'm sure these kits are quite effective and I can't see the little bit of pipe suffering heat soak to the level it would effect the results of a caik the speed that air is being sucked into the turbo would not have chance to heat up pre turbo obviously to a level you would notice.
Look after your car and you won't run into issues seen by Alan Jeffrey a wet filter is neglect pure and simple.
21 March 2013, 08:25 PM
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I'm sorry but if you make an absurd generalised comment like that on a public forum what kind of response did you really expect.
I, like many, have ran inner wing kits with no ill effects. I actually did a fair bit of testing in this area.. like so many have done before me. No way would I stick with any method of inlet if it was "stupid". Neither would the many thousands of people or perhaps more specific, reputable tuners.... on their own cars.
I don't know about you or anybody else, but I don't have a tendancy of driving through 2ft of water to warrant injesting water through my inlet.
If everything post turbo was the real deal, then why does increased ambient temps increase charge temps? The cooler you can get the air prior to the turbo, helps the resultant temps the intercooler has to deal with, thus effecting the charge temps entering the engine.
These kits can work really well, especially when the inner wing box section is retained and a ram air effect via an appropriate inlet hole (from the front of the car) into the inner wing is constructed or kept.
I prefer to make comment on what I have tested personally, rather than what videos I have seen on the internet.
I, like many, have ran inner wing kits with no ill effects. I actually did a fair bit of testing in this area.. like so many have done before me. No way would I stick with any method of inlet if it was "stupid". Neither would the many thousands of people or perhaps more specific, reputable tuners.... on their own cars.
I don't know about you or anybody else, but I don't have a tendancy of driving through 2ft of water to warrant injesting water through my inlet.
If everything post turbo was the real deal, then why does increased ambient temps increase charge temps? The cooler you can get the air prior to the turbo, helps the resultant temps the intercooler has to deal with, thus effecting the charge temps entering the engine.
These kits can work really well, especially when the inner wing box section is retained and a ram air effect via an appropriate inlet hole (from the front of the car) into the inner wing is constructed or kept.
I prefer to make comment on what I have tested personally, rather than what videos I have seen on the internet.
Kinda see your point, but disagree.
Once the car is rolling there's plenty of airflow in the bay, I know this cause I took the time to measure temps at different speeds on warm day. Results were very surprising.
Cold air kit is a waste of time IMHO, the extra work, weight, money, potential water pickup far outweighs any power gain..... If any.
Buy a descent inter cooler if you wanna really lower charge temps
21 March 2013, 08:30 PM
#21
I'm sorry but if you make an absurd generalised comment like that on a public forum what kind of response did you really expect.
I, like many, have ran inner wing kits with no ill effects. I actually did a fair bit of testing in this area.. like so many have done before me. No way would I stick with any method of inlet if it was "stupid". Neither would the many thousands of people or perhaps more specific, reputable tuners.... on their own cars.
I don't know about you or anybody else, but I don't have a tendancy of driving through 2ft of water to warrant injesting water through my inlet.
If everything post turbo was the real deal, then why does increased ambient temps increase charge temps? The cooler you can get the air prior to the turbo, helps the resultant temps the intercooler has to deal with, thus effecting the charge temps entering the engine.
These kits can work really well, especially when the inner wing box section is retained and a ram air effect via an appropriate inlet hole (from the front of the car) into the inner wing is constructed or kept.
I prefer to make comment on what I have tested personally, rather than what videos I have seen on the internet.
I, like many, have ran inner wing kits with no ill effects. I actually did a fair bit of testing in this area.. like so many have done before me. No way would I stick with any method of inlet if it was "stupid". Neither would the many thousands of people or perhaps more specific, reputable tuners.... on their own cars.
I don't know about you or anybody else, but I don't have a tendancy of driving through 2ft of water to warrant injesting water through my inlet.
If everything post turbo was the real deal, then why does increased ambient temps increase charge temps? The cooler you can get the air prior to the turbo, helps the resultant temps the intercooler has to deal with, thus effecting the charge temps entering the engine.
These kits can work really well, especially when the inner wing box section is retained and a ram air effect via an appropriate inlet hole (from the front of the car) into the inner wing is constructed or kept.
I prefer to make comment on what I have tested personally, rather than what videos I have seen on the internet.
In your testing did you compare temps of both a inner wing kit and normal filter in the bay ?
21 March 2013, 08:38 PM
#22
i just checked mine after reading this thread and its very clean still but im careful of puddles etc, i must admit i dont like the idea of it at all though.
21 March 2013, 10:50 PM
#25
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Shaun old chap, tell me which part of this great country has roads where you can avoid three foot deep water filled potholes? We need lifejackets and schnorkels down here mate..
Apologies for this one, but this is the RCM Gobstopper, and I bet you won't find a CAIK on the new version either.
It's only an opinion, but I personally think the cold air feed thing is pants.
Apologies for this one, but this is the RCM Gobstopper, and I bet you won't find a CAIK on the new version either.
It's only an opinion, but I personally think the cold air feed thing is pants.
21 March 2013, 11:01 PM
#26
Once the car is rolling there's plenty of airflow in the bay
I have a monitor for the intake via a GReddy sensor.... with a filter in the wing air intake was 2 degree above ambient... moved the filter to the engine bay and its 10 degree above ambient. So above not true at all....
Anyone with a degree in thermal dynamics can confirm, but the intake temp can only rise proportionately to the max temp the turbo can compress/heat the air to....
Or if the intake is 5 degree the turbo might heat it to 50 degree... if the intake is 15 degree the turbo will heat it to 50 degree, not 65 degree.....
FMIC will always do the job after intake charge and turbo temps heat up the intake etc etc blah blah.....
I have a monitor for the intake via a GReddy sensor.... with a filter in the wing air intake was 2 degree above ambient... moved the filter to the engine bay and its 10 degree above ambient. So above not true at all....
Anyone with a degree in thermal dynamics can confirm, but the intake temp can only rise proportionately to the max temp the turbo can compress/heat the air to....
Or if the intake is 5 degree the turbo might heat it to 50 degree... if the intake is 15 degree the turbo will heat it to 50 degree, not 65 degree.....
FMIC will always do the job after intake charge and turbo temps heat up the intake etc etc blah blah.....
Last edited by nyscooby; 21 March 2013 at 11:02 PM.
21 March 2013, 11:19 PM
#27
On the legacy, with the size of the fogs, and once the FMIC pipework was in, a wing mounted filter wasnt an option.
I bought the largest k&n that could fit which is nowhere near as big as the rcm cone, but still rated to 550bhp and has easily mapped to 450.
Then stuck a naca duct in the bumper and made up a filter shrowd with a tube on the side for the duct from the bumper naca duct. The duct is routed in a nice big S, so the water doesnt seem to rise as high as the filter and even if it does it wouldnt suffocate the whole filter.
Last track day was monsoon conditions and after i stopped the filter was completely dry, and have driven hard when dry with a hot engine bay and the filter is much colder to the touch than the surrounding engine bay.
I know cutting a duct into the bumper isnt to everyones taste but it works well.
Anything im overlooking or any thoughts?
Could get a few more of these filter shrowds made if theres any demand.
I bought the largest k&n that could fit which is nowhere near as big as the rcm cone, but still rated to 550bhp and has easily mapped to 450.
Then stuck a naca duct in the bumper and made up a filter shrowd with a tube on the side for the duct from the bumper naca duct. The duct is routed in a nice big S, so the water doesnt seem to rise as high as the filter and even if it does it wouldnt suffocate the whole filter.
Last track day was monsoon conditions and after i stopped the filter was completely dry, and have driven hard when dry with a hot engine bay and the filter is much colder to the touch than the surrounding engine bay.
I know cutting a duct into the bumper isnt to everyones taste but it works well.
Anything im overlooking or any thoughts?
Could get a few more of these filter shrowds made if theres any demand.
21 March 2013, 11:50 PM
#29
Once the car is rolling there's plenty of airflow in the bay
I have a monitor for the intake via a GReddy sensor.... with a filter in the wing air intake was 2 degree above ambient... moved the filter to the engine bay and its 10 degree above ambient. So above not true at all....
Anyone with a degree in thermal dynamics can confirm, but the intake temp can only rise proportionately to the max temp the turbo can compress/heat the air to....
Or if the intake is 5 degree the turbo might heat it to 50 degree... if the intake is 15 degree the turbo will heat it to 50 degree, not 65 degree.....
FMIC will always do the job after intake charge and turbo temps heat up the intake etc etc blah blah.....
I have a monitor for the intake via a GReddy sensor.... with a filter in the wing air intake was 2 degree above ambient... moved the filter to the engine bay and its 10 degree above ambient. So above not true at all....
Anyone with a degree in thermal dynamics can confirm, but the intake temp can only rise proportionately to the max temp the turbo can compress/heat the air to....
Or if the intake is 5 degree the turbo might heat it to 50 degree... if the intake is 15 degree the turbo will heat it to 50 degree, not 65 degree.....
FMIC will always do the job after intake charge and turbo temps heat up the intake etc etc blah blah.....
22 March 2013, 12:02 AM
#30
Once the car is rolling there's plenty of airflow in the bay
I have a monitor for the intake via a GReddy sensor.... with a filter in the wing air intake was 2 degree above ambient... moved the filter to the engine bay and its 10 degree above ambient. So above not true at all....
Anyone with a degree in thermal dynamics can confirm, but the intake temp can only rise proportionately to the max temp the turbo can compress/heat the air to....
Or if the intake is 5 degree the turbo might heat it to 50 degree... if the intake is 15 degree the turbo will heat it to 50 degree, not 65 degree.....
FMIC will always do the job after intake charge and turbo temps heat up the intake etc etc blah blah.....
I have a monitor for the intake via a GReddy sensor.... with a filter in the wing air intake was 2 degree above ambient... moved the filter to the engine bay and its 10 degree above ambient. So above not true at all....
Anyone with a degree in thermal dynamics can confirm, but the intake temp can only rise proportionately to the max temp the turbo can compress/heat the air to....
Or if the intake is 5 degree the turbo might heat it to 50 degree... if the intake is 15 degree the turbo will heat it to 50 degree, not 65 degree.....
FMIC will always do the job after intake charge and turbo temps heat up the intake etc etc blah blah.....
The main contributer to compressorwheel outlet temps is how hard the turbo is working to produce required boost and that must include how easily it can grab the air, not so much the temperature of it.
Trev