scoobydude61

Hi, it looks as though a mate of mine has purchased what is looking like a stolen (from Japan) EVO6.....

Where does he stand with this? has anyone on here been in the same touble?

He is totaly in love with the car and cant bear to loose it, the thought of loosing the car and the money is killing him, poor bloke.

The chassis number on the logbook does not match the number on the V5, on the face of it it looks like a clerial error, but we have a funny feeling about the car. It is low miles (under 10k) and is only a year or so old........the engine is the original one, the car is TOTALY mint......

What are his options? The worse news is that he was stopped by the poilce sunday evening (an unrelated incident) and they checked the numbers, which didnt tally, they are now about to investigate.

We have read the BBC Watchdog report on this which is a help, but does anyone have any firsthand experience with this issue..... he cant bear the thought of loosing his new car or the money

feel so sorry for him

Thanks scoobynetters

SD61

chrisp

I am not an expert but it seems that its unlikely they woudl want to ship it back to Japan and the insurance has probably already been paid on it. The Japan insurnace firm would therefore be the owners. They may come to some arrangement over a price to keep the car. Did he buy it off an importer or garage as he may have some come back with them.

scoobydude61

Hi Chrisp, thanks for the words, he bought it on a private sale, now kicking himself for not checking it or checking the V5.

I get it, if the japanese ins firm has paid out, they are the owners, so they would hold 'good title' for the EVO?

Anyone know of any legal specialists for this sort of thing?

This may not be a totaly loss for him then, do u rekon the jap ins company would want loads for the title on the vechical?

Thanks

DS61

Attu

They may want the market value of the car, If it was me Id go and "visit" the person he bought it from.

Andy

scoobydude61

Dont worry about that, once it is all over and done with, the 'seller' will get a wake up call..... as well as a good dose of public humiliation.

SD61

Terzo 333

Unfortunately I know someone that was in your friend's position. Evo 6, had it for two days and got a knock on the door of the feds. Car was taken off him and he lost his money

Hope this doesn't happen to you, but he's got to expect the worse.

Matt

Les H

I wouldn't panic just yet I were you It probably is just a clerical error, even DVLC makes mistakes as do the people who fill out the forms to register the cars. Contact BIMTA who can do the equivalent of an HPi report for you in Japan, I think they charge about £15, check out their website www.bimta.com

Les

[Edited by Les H - 5/15/2002 10:59:29 PM]

DGRALLYING

I think i would start to strip the car and try and get some of my money back that way so when the car is finally reclamed all they will collect is the shell

mega_stream

Do they not have to find who owns the car before they can reclaim it?

IIRC the car can't be taken away from you if they can't prove its someone else's property, be it the insurance co or some poor bloke in Japan. They may well prohibit it though so you do loose it while its being looked into.

Hope it turns out ok...did he pay well below book price for it?

MattN

the logbook is the V5.

Do you mean the chassis no. on the car and the V5?

Get someone to check the chassis no. on the car to see if it's been tampered with.

Stuart J

Just a thought, what happens if it happened to be nicked or catch fire? presumably his insurance co would pay him, no car to reposes, if its only worth market value them obviously with nothing decent to look at it was a heap wasnt it, if fire damaged buy the wreck back & sell the good bits

On a serious note anything added to the car since it was nicked is not part of the car & they will have no claim to it, ie if its had a wheel change keep them, if its had an engine change they dont have a right to the engine etc

There was also a lot of info on thee BBC Watchdog page when they did their special, I havent checked but it may still be there

May be worth posting on any clubs etc that cover Skylines, Landcruisers etc as I believe these are the most likely to have been stolen & their may be more people with experience of nicked cars

Also some of the specialist importers may be able to offer some advice once you get past the "well if youd bought it from a dealer etc etc.

Lastly if (& its a big IF) you can prove the guy sold it knowing it to be stolen then you will have a strong case against him, maybe the threat of "if you give me my money back I wont tell the Police he was selling stolen goods" may persuade him to give back the money.

Good Luck

Stuart

Butty

iTrader: (2)

Any chance of getting hold of the Jap auction and deregistration sheets? This may show up the "error" if it is one.
Perhaps the original engine was ditched and a new modddifed one put in its place in Japan without any formal notification?
Lets hope it is something innocent so your mate can keep it.

Nick

Pete Croney

I cannot get my head around this one. And I've been trying since the programme went out.

What are our police doing confiscating cars for Japanese insurance companies?

Are our police forces busy improving the clean up rate of Japanese vehicle crime, whilst our domestic figures soar and the clean up rate falls?

And what crime has been committed in the UK?

If the vehicle was bought by a UK importer in Dubai, at the free trade port shown on the TV programme, then it may be that tittle has been passed. Just the same as goods bought at a Market Ouvert in the UK (for those that don't know, some UK market towns have a license to hold Market Ouverts at which title passes even if the goods were stolen. Medieval laws etc).

Since the programme, I have not seen news of any court cases involving the importers, although the programme seemed confident enough to identify the main players and some even admitted the trade on camera. Have I just missed the news?

Are other police forces around the world busy recovering the RHD luxury cars and construction plant that is stolen from the UK and shipped off shore?

The whole affair does show the importance of pre-purchase checks.

chiark

Be happy, it could be a clerical error.

I bought a brand new UK spec import from Holland, filled out the forms, sent of the V55/5, CoC, invoice, all showing the correct VIN. DVLC still managed to change a Y into a 7. Shows how much they check the paperwork...

Wrote to them, and they changed it.

Again, Citizen's Advice Bureau would be my first point of call and take it from there. Plus the seller - I'd ask questions as to where he bought it from, etc. It may be a really simple **** up due to someone writing the wrong number in a box, after all!

scoobydude61

So it looks like all may not be lost.

The car has had a host of modifications, it will prob be a good idea for him to wait to find out what the police think, at the end of the day, he is innocent after all.

Terzo 333 - Sorry to hear about that, did he have no recourse at all?

Les H - We shall contact BIMTA today, see what they can offer.

DGRALLYING - The thought has crossed our minds, most of the mods were completed after the car was in the UK. We dont want to strip it and then find out it has all been a clerical error

mega_stream - We are hoping (praying) that they will not take the car, if it does turn out to be hot, we will seek legal advice and attempt to purchase good title from whoever now has it.... he got the car at a good price.

MattN - Sorry, the chassis number on the V5 (logbook) doesnt even come close to matching the number on the car. The chassis number on the car does match the chassis number on VIN plate, but I spose they are easily forged.

Stuart J - I think it may be a little obvious if his car just disappeared and blew up . We have read the watchdog report several time, it does offer some good advice and a couple of glimmers of hope! I will also ask on a few other BBS. The seller will be delt with a little later, legaly of course.

Butty - That may well be an option, would the police do this?

Pete - Know what you mean mate. On the face of it, it looks as if the police are acting a baylifs for the japanese insurance companies. With regard to pre-purchase checks, you are right, he is kicking himself, v disapointed in himself as the numbers would usualy be the first thing he would check

chiark - Fingers/Legs/Arms all crossed! The seller did purchase from a garage, we cant for the life of us figure out why he didnt just take it back - surely the garage would have offered a full refund when threatened with closure?

Thanks for all the great advice guys, it is much appreciated. Keep it coming.

SD61

seejay555

SD61,
I suspect it's bad news. The law starts from the premise that you can't validly sell what you don't own. Whoever sold the car to your mate probably didn't own the car. So, your mate hasn't acquired "title" (i.e. legal ownership)to the car. Either the original owner in Japan still owns the car or the insurance company will own it if they paid out after the theft, assuming Japanese insurance law is the same as English.
There are exceptions to the general rule and Pete C has mentioned one that used to exist (but has been abolished) but I can't see any others fitting your circumstances.
Suggest your mate goes to the CAB with all the facts so they can advise fully.
Sorry.

Sparks

Just a thought..

Does the chassis number on the V5 match the style of the one on the car ? e.g. GC8****** - same number of characters etc ?

Could it be when the car was registered in the UK initially the incorrect chassis number was supplied by the importer when registering the car ? Or maybe its been registered with another number ? consignment/shipping number ?

There have been posts here in the past about how to check if a import has been previously stolen in japan etc... maybe use these to clarify if the car is stolen or not as a first port of call ?

scoobydude61

Sparks - The chassis number on the V5 begins with what appears to the be model number of the car, the actual chassis number is twice as long.

That is why on the face of it, it does look like a clerial error.

Do you have a link to any of the threads you mentioned?

Sparks

I have a couple in my favourites...

http://www.scoobynet.co.uk/bbs/threa...ThreadID=84058

http://www.scoobynet.co.uk/bbs/threa...ThreadID=90315

Butty

iTrader: (2)

The trail to look for the paperwork sounds long and is likely to have been chucked.
I don't know if the police will bother looking for import papaers, they well just want to ship it back to Japan if it is not legit.
The original garge may have them or pass on the name of the importer if they did not do it directly.


Nick

tarmacterrorist

Well here is my experience.
Scooby written off due to crash...insurance would not payout until I paid for a check to make sure car was not stolen from Japan.
Police told me to let nearest Subaru dealership take details of the car & they would get the equivalent of DVLA in Japan to confirm ownership/car details etc. A written report is provided & will show if the car is legite or not.

The info that came back was that the engine number was different but that was because Subaru had written the wrong number down.

I was told by Police that if the car was identified as a stolen one a search for the owner in Japan would start. If owner was found then the car would be shipped back if owner agreed to shipping costs (be it private or insurance owned). During the search of the owner period I would have lost use of the car. If the owner is identified then I would lose any monies paid for the car & would need to speak to the seller to get my money back.

Hope it works out in your mates favour.

Andy.

chiark

Andy, that's 'kin outrageous!!!! You are involved in a smash and, basically, the insurance company is accusing you of doing it deliberately because it might have been stolen?????

I'd be extremely nadded off with 'em!

unikey

Cant speak for mitsubishi but toyota dealers will do a check on jap imports for £25 takes 28 days and will tell you if it is stolen (got my supra and mr2 done both clean) the advice I was given is that almost always an insurance company will own the title to the vehicle and unless its a very special car will negotiate for you to purchase the title the example he gave was a 2 year old land cruiser which the insurance company took £2500 for to transfer the title

Jon1T

Assuming this isn't a 'fresh' import - why not get onto the DVLA seperately from the Police and check the story re the V5 - ie that they have issued it, as there are a lot of forged ones about. Simple phone call could a least set his mind at rest.

Why not just send the V5 back and say they've got the chassis number wrong - I assume you're talking about the new V5 they issued when the owners chnged - and get them to change it to the correct chassis number? I've had plenty of V5's sent to me with incorrect info on - they just ask for it back with supporting info and they've changed it?

I assuem you mate checked the original V5 when he bought it, and checked that the chassis number matched with the vehicle ID plate?

Tell me he did??!

[Edited by Jon1T - 5/16/2002 5:21:15 PM]

tarmacterrorist

Chiark - tell me about it. Apparently the insurance company was sending out letters to all import owners but if you claimed before the letter was sent to you then they told you then

In other words my insurance company was trying all things available to them to stop payment of my claim. Very convenient as the report on stolen imports had just been in the news a week earlier (Top Gear I think).

Only when the report from Subaru came back did they pay out.

I did say in a thread a long time ago that people with imports should get the report done just for peace of mind.

Andy.

johnfelstead

I wouldnt buy an import unless it had been verified and you had the proof in writing. Your risking a hell of a lot of money.

When i bought my westfield i noticed the VIN # on the chassis has 1 digit that was incorect compared to the V5 document. Fortunately with the car being pretty unique i was able to call the factory to confirm that the chassis # was correct and someone had made a mistake at the DVLA. I wrote to the DVLA and had the documentation corected, it had been like that from first registration! Been through 3 other owners and even used as the factories press car for 2 years.

I find it astonishing that people buy cars where the V5 doesnt match the Chassis number and the engine # doesnt match the V5. What are people thinking?

I had the short motor on my Impreza Sport replaced under waranty due to piston slap. This gave me a new engine number which i imediately informed the DVLA about and they altered the V5 to match. I wonder how many other cars that had engine work under waranty now have the wrong engine # on the V5? The dealer never suggested i get the V5 updated, i just made sure of it.

Maybe i am more cautious than most because one of my mates bought a stolen car when i was 17 and lost all his money and the car. I dont ever fancy having that happen to me. You have to cover your ****.

There is no point getting into a debate as to whether it is apropriate or not that british police do the work for the japanese. All police forces do work for each other under the interpol agreements. It's irelivent, just dont buy a stolen car, you can do plenty to protect yourself. Just remember it's a big chunk of money you are gambling with when you buy a car, so take due caution based on that, it's very easy to forget when your looking at buying a nice car, especially if you get a loan for it as it isnt real money is it?

Good luck.