Scott J Davies

With a M8 of mine I am looking at a 4 x 4 or 3 x 4 racing harness for my motor (when I get it kin back at the end of April ).

Anyone any experience of which would be the better option a 3 x 4 or 4 x 4, my preference would be the 4 x 4, are they easy to fit??

SJD

PS Mutant Matts getting Married soon, do I hear the call of the stag?

Richard Askew

Right pay attention at the back..... here are the steps to full harness heaven:
1) Phone Peter Lloyd Rallying on 01656 724777 or

Scott J Davies

Richard

Willans Dribble Dribble

I want th eSilverstone numbers is that you have, seems cheap as you like if so!

SJD

MorayMackenzie

I went for the boring old drool free SABELT FIA 3" 4Point harness... I figured if they were good enough for Prodrive, they might just do the job.

WALKER

Why not try

IWatkins

Got a 2 inch TRS 'street-legal' one in my '4. Works as advertised.

Cheers

Ian

Ian Sutton

So Hoppy are you saying that you can't keep the original rear seat belts in place by bolting them in using the eye bolts?

Or are you saying you can but the rear seat wont fit back in place??

..Confused of London.

Mungo

Am I missing the point, but where does the rear fixing attach to?

Hoppy

Mungo, that's the easy bit! Remove rear seat base - just two bolts at front. Swap the standard belt retaining bolt/bolts with the eye-bolts.

Of course, this renders the rear seats useless for passengers, which is why they need to clip in and out easily (the belts that is, not the passengers ).

Richard.

Hoppy

I followed Richard Askew's advice. Thanks Rich. It will be far, far better than ordinary seat belts, but...

I opted for a four point harness in order to keep shoulder belts in line with equal tension..

Phoned Peter Lloyd Rallying who didn't have a clue when asked a few simple questions. "Does it come with eye-bolts?" No. "Are you sure?" I'll check. Yes it does. "Great, I'll have two harnesses, please."

Two four-point belts duly arrived, with just ONE eye-bolt each! But a quick phone call got the missing ones in the post. So away we go.

Well, not so fast. The eye-bolts supplied are shorter and have less thread than the original fixings. Had to remove some spacers to make them secure. Fitting an eye-bolt to the seat fixing (left of the driver) needs a collar to allow the normal belt fixing to move as it should (lots of messing about in the garage, drilling and filing etc).

If you want the harness to clip on and clip off quickly and easily, additional fixings are needed, as access to the eye-bolts is very tight. I bought some for camping/climbing rope fixtures which do the job.

Finally, although I've yet to test on a track day, it's clear that the harness rides up and over your stomach under tension, much more than a normal seat belt does. You really need a six-pointer to be both comfortable and safe.

Richard.

Hoppy

Sorry guys! I was trying to be helpful but seem to have confused everybody!

Ian, no you can use all the original belts and fixings. In fact, you can wear both the standard seat belt and the harness together if you're feeling insecure

An eye-bolt is a regular bolt with a large ring welded on the end, something like a big Polo mint! Take out the original bolts with a normal hexagon head and screw the eye-bolts directly in their place. The bolt secures the normal belt fixtures and the harness then clips into the ring (just make sure the harness has clip-on fixings and is not intended to be permanently bolted in place).

When you've done all this, the eye-bolts are left in place of course. They do not affect the use of any of the regular belts or seats, and they don't stick into your bum, either!

Richard.

Charlie H

What seats do you have as the ones in my 93 WRX haven't got room to fit an eyebolt between the seat and centre console Am I missing something or do you have different seats? I have a 3 point harness with eye bolts sat under my stairs which I never got round to fitting in my last car, so if they do fit please let me know

SecretAgentMan

On my MY00 the eyebolt (incl. with my 3" 4-point Sabelt harness) fit without any hassels on the console side of the seat (right side in my case...LHD...swede bastid ).



/J

SecretAgentMan

No hassles still means "seat out"...

Diesel

Now I get it - ish! You fix the replacement harness' eye-bolts under the rear seat, trapping the existing seatbelt click-buckle receiver thing underneath them. You can then use either harness with no passenger, or your OE seat belt when there's babes in the back...

Will this type of fixing align centrally with the back of drivers seat so as the single belt behind the drivers seat will 'pull' evenly? Can't think it will...

Also, what fixes the 'lap belt' on BOTH sides - simple on left as it fits to existing seatbelt mounting clip. What about the other side?

Bit thick here sorry!

Finally what is the best one to get - one that will fit an STi V with no cursing and driving without seat belts to B&Q to buy bloody washers and a nail file on a busy Saturday afternoon!
Fancy low key, black un's with no big SQUEEZCO branding on them really. Maybe a company that can emboss my signature on them instead would be nice

Thanks!

Diesel

double post - deleted

[This message has been edited by Diesel (edited 10 April 2001).]

Steve Williams

Hi Richard...

So basically they are easy to fit, do not affect any other belts or seats (i.e. you can use the harness in the fronts and still have rear passengers?).

Sounds like I will be ordering some as well, just one thing, are they MOT legal or do they have to be removed come MOT time?

Charlie H

As long as their "E" marked, they are road legal, but always ask before buying them. My last car passed two MOT's with one fitted

Following my last post, can anyone tell me if eye bolts will fit Subaru sports seats (ie later spec uk or early wrx ones) when fitted in a pre 97 car (ie older type centre console) As I still can't see how they would fit without plastic surgery to it

Hoppy

Hi guys. I'll try to explain. Sorry, but it's a bit of a novel.

Richard Askew's basic idea is a good one, it's just not quite that simple to do the actual install and if you want to clip the belts in and out easily you'll need extra fittings, in my view. Here goes...

The general plan is to replace the standard seat belt retaining bolts with eye-bolts which, as explained above, both retain all the existing fixings but also allow you to clip a harness into the protruding ring or 'eye'. When you've done, the car's standard seat belts and seats can be used exactly as before which is what makes it such a cool fitment.

Let's start with the easy bit - the rear. Take out the back-seat base (just the two bolts at the front) and you'll find hex-headed bolts securing the rear belts. I chose a four-point harness using two of the fixings at the rear. The harness adjustment facility ensures it then pulls equally left and right, even though the rear fixings are not perfectly in line with the front seat. Two fixing points are also stronger than one, should it be put to the test.

Remove the standard bolts and replace with eye-bolts. You may need to play with washers in order to get the fixing secure, but leave the eye-bolt correctly orientated for easy harness fixing.

The front is a bit more tricky, but not much. Starting with the right, door pillar side. Unclip the plastic trim from the B-post (door pillar) from above the window right down to the sill. Ease back the carpet and you now have access to the seat belt retaining bolt. Swap it for an eye-bolt, snip off a tiny bit of carpet for the eye to poke through, refit trim and there you are.

The fourth fixing point is connected to the seat. Slide the seat right back for best access, from behind. Getting this eye-bolt in was not a problem on my UK00 car. It was a tight fit between the seat and centre console, but no need to remove the seat. Other cars may be different, but so are some eye bolts. The shank on my eye-bolts is 23mm long. If yours are longer and won't squeeze in, maybe you could cut them down. But this is YOUR DECISION. If you are unsure of the security of the fitting, check with your dealer.

This front seat fixing is where you'll meet the main problem with this install, as the female stalk which connects with the standard belt is designed to move back and forth to accommodate all shapes and sizes. To allow movement, the bolt on this fixing has a collar which will not be replicated on the eye-bolt you want to replace it with. So you need to fabricate a collar, which will be obvious when you remove the standard bolt. I did it with an old nut, carefully drilled out, ground to the right width, then filed and honed into shape. Not the most elegant solution perhaps, but I couldn't find another way round it and it works fine.

Now you should have four eye-bolts in place, and both front and rear standard seat belts working exactly as normal. Yes?

Fine. Now take your new harness, with quick release fittings, and clip them in place. It shouldn't be difficult. Okay? Good. Have a nice track day.

Now your track day is over, and this harness thing is a bit of a pain, right? Nobody can sit in the back with the harness in the way and those quick release fittings aren't so quick after all. In fact, they're a knuckle bashing, nail chipping bloody nuisance. This is why I have fitted figure-of-eight style spring clips (sorry, I don't know what they're technically called) which, in effect, allow you easy access to unclip the harness from the eye-bolts. Again, once you have gone through the eye-bolt fitting procedure, you'll know what I mean. Try your local climbing shop, DIY store, or motor fitters.

I really hope that's clear! It's certainly safe and easy, but is it legal? Dunno. Anybody else know MoT or other regs?

Demon Tweaks sell a vast range of harnesses. They also sell the extra fittings you'll need for a six-point harness, which need drilling and welding from underneath the front seat, under the car, and then undersealing over.

Richard.

Diesel

Thanks Richard - much appreciated. Don't have a vice and a grinder so guess it might be a frustrating failure if I cant get the specific fitting kit!

Cheers for the effort to make it clear.

Dave T-S

I have considered putting at least a 3 point in mine, just one thing to be careful of, you would not believe the stresses seat belts and their mountings are put to in a heavy impact, God forbid, and I would not be happy using those spring clip type things - especially if they are bought from a DIY store or similar - probably made from low grade steel - recycled Hyundai's or similar.

It is worth checking with the belt manufacturers - and I suspect they would not endorse this (product liability issues) - if you have to use quick release clips use decent climbing clips available from a mountain shop - preferably closed ones like screw karabinas or similar. It would be a shame to see you disappearing through the screen with your belts wrapped around you and three or four Taiwanese paper clips dangling from the end of them...........

rsquire

one thing to be aware of is that if the rear "leg" of the harness dips below 45 degrees then it is not legal as a competition harness. Check the FIA rules on that...

Richard

Richard Askew

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>
Richard Askew's basic idea is a good one, it's just not quite that simple to do the actual install and if you want to clip the belts in and out easily you'll need extra fittings<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>


hmmmmmmm then how come I fitted them in 20 mins?? Safely and effectively as I have with the ones in my rally car??.......

Next big meet or track day I'll show u and can help with installations.......

Mungo

Hoppy - thanks for clearing it up!

Richard Askew - was it really as easy as using the eyebolts from Peter Lloyd - even for the fixing next to the centre console?

Thanks all.

Richard Askew

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>

Richard Askew - was it really as easy as using the eyebolts from Peter Lloyd - even for the fixing next to the centre console?

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

.......yep in a MY97 wagon - not too big a console.....

Hoppy

Hi Richard! Where have you been, M8? Thanks for your original post, which has got me a harness fitted far more easily and cheaply than I'd thought possible.

The only area where I had trouble was with the seat fixing and the need for a collar to be fabricated. The normal belt won't work correctly without it, and there's a real danger of the belt stalk moving back and forth and working the eye-bolt lose.

And as described above, clipping the belts in is easy but getting them out again is a real ba5tard, hence the figure-of-eight spring clips.

And on that note, I have to endorse Dave T-S's comments about the strength of any other load-bearing components added to the belts. LOL at the mental picture you painted, Dave Do you think it would be okay if I used both paper clips and a bit of string, too?

Seriously guys, Dave makes a very good point. I 'think' the figure-of-eight spring clips are strong enough, but they were bought more with convenience in mind, rather than absolute security. I want the harness to stop me sliding around in the seat on track days, rather than protect me in a crash. Thinking about it, I'm damn certain they would NOT pass an MOT. Maybe I'll use the standard seat-belts as well - best safe than sorry etc - and look out for some stronger clips, too.

Richard

tokyo_steve

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Hoppy:
<B>

Finally, although I've yet to test on a track day, it's clear that the harness rides up and over your stomach under tension, much more than a normal seat belt does. You really need a six-pointer to be both comfortable and safe.

Richard.[/quote]

You are doing something wrong if this happens. A 6pt will help, but I've used 3 & 4 point belts without this problem.

The trick is to fasten the belts with the shoulder straps very loose. Then to the hip belts up as tight as poss. Then tighen the shoulder straps.

If you can't stop it riding up by doing this you need to look at mounting positions, etc.

If you have a racing harness that rides up then it won't do you any good in a crash. Infact, it could cause significant internal injuries. The hip belts should be pushing on your hips/pelvic bone. Not your stomach.

If it's riding up you will be better off with the std intertia reel belts.

Steve

PS, if you wear a 6pt belt with the hip straps loose it will be your bollocks that stop you from sliding under the belt in an accident :O