1990(G) 911 Carrera 4 Targa
23 March 2001, 01:29 PM
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I'm seriously thinking about a change of car, the worry of having the house broken into and the scoob nicked and all related theft problems is getting a bit much, so I've been looking at getting a G reg 911 Carrera 4 Targa.
Anyone on here got any experience of them? I'm not too bothered about how it compares to the scoob (I have an sti V), I'm more interested in general performance info and day to day useability.
I've always liked the look of the 911 but I've never been in one.
Cheers,
Dave
Anyone on here got any experience of them? I'm not too bothered about how it compares to the scoob (I have an sti V), I'm more interested in general performance info and day to day useability.
I've always liked the look of the 911 but I've never been in one.
Cheers,
Dave
23 March 2001, 01:39 PM
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Same position as myself. However, two months on I'm still deciding.
Owning an Impreza we almost get used to reasonable running costs. However the 911 can be costly. Don't forget that type of 911 is one the the UK's most easily stolen cars!!
Whilst I'm still considering one (a lot of the Targa's I've seen have had a leak, so I would only go for a hardtop or full Cab). I'm also considering the following
1. Boxter - alittle more money, but much cheaper to run. Far newer, much more up todate. If alittle slower.
2. Hmmm....thats about it. Unless TT. But I'd only by one of them for my girlfriend as I would not want to admit owning one.
3. hmmm.....New Impreza/ TVR.........
Oh hell, go for the 911 then.
It is a tough one. One thing to bear in mind. Get a Porsche check up on the car. about £700. But your then get a Porsche warranty even if the car is private (so I'm told).
Good Luck
CB
Owning an Impreza we almost get used to reasonable running costs. However the 911 can be costly. Don't forget that type of 911 is one the the UK's most easily stolen cars!!
Whilst I'm still considering one (a lot of the Targa's I've seen have had a leak, so I would only go for a hardtop or full Cab). I'm also considering the following
1. Boxter - alittle more money, but much cheaper to run. Far newer, much more up todate. If alittle slower.
2. Hmmm....thats about it. Unless TT. But I'd only by one of them for my girlfriend as I would not want to admit owning one.
3. hmmm.....New Impreza/ TVR.........
Oh hell, go for the 911 then.
It is a tough one. One thing to bear in mind. Get a Porsche check up on the car. about £700. But your then get a Porsche warranty even if the car is private (so I'm told).
Good Luck
CB
23 March 2001, 02:01 PM
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Hmmm.....
Came accross one recently (coupe, not targa).
Not much in it to *silly* speeds (my MY99 had slight edge) but left him on the twisties.
And he was trying, believe me!
Over rated if you ask me. Go for a Carrera 2.
D
Came accross one recently (coupe, not targa).
Not much in it to *silly* speeds (my MY99 had slight edge) but left him on the twisties.
And he was trying, believe me!
Over rated if you ask me. Go for a Carrera 2.
D
23 March 2001, 02:16 PM
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Yep, CB is right with the 911 theft thing. I downloaded all the data a while ago, and the 911 is one of the most stolen cars in the country - far worse than the impreza. Apparently a lot are stolen to order, and shipped to the far east.
I've been in a couple of 911s and have investigated buying one in the past. The carrera 4 of the age you mention is one of the most expensive 911s to maintain. If you want to pursue this option, then get hold of the back issues of 911 and Porsche World with the buying guides.
I'd also be wary of getting a targa - they're must less sought after on the second hand market, leak, and suffer from wind noise. I also think the 964 shape (89-93) is the ugliest, most bulbous looking shape of 911 they've ever made. I'd go for a mint classic '89 carrera instead, with hopefully zero depreciation, and smaller running costs.
Regards,
Gary.
I've been in a couple of 911s and have investigated buying one in the past. The carrera 4 of the age you mention is one of the most expensive 911s to maintain. If you want to pursue this option, then get hold of the back issues of 911 and Porsche World with the buying guides.
I'd also be wary of getting a targa - they're must less sought after on the second hand market, leak, and suffer from wind noise. I also think the 964 shape (89-93) is the ugliest, most bulbous looking shape of 911 they've ever made. I'd go for a mint classic '89 carrera instead, with hopefully zero depreciation, and smaller running costs.
Regards,
Gary.
23 March 2001, 02:50 PM
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A friend has one which is in good nick and on a G plate but still needs to go and have about 2-3k of work done on the engine. As a passenger the wind noise is bad from the Targa and it squeaks and rattles worse than a Scooby. I also found it a little small. They are great cars but I would go for the newer models without the nasty big lights.
Si
Si
23 March 2001, 03:45 PM
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are you saying that 911 targas are the most nicked car, or are you saying that 911's in general are the most nicked car?
There are a few 911 Carrera 2's at this age and the right price bracket for me to still consider the change.
There are a few 911 Carrera 2's at this age and the right price bracket for me to still consider the change.
23 March 2001, 04:58 PM
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That era of the 911, the Carrera 2 & 4 are simple superb. Beautifully made and so great to drive. Sublimely smooth even at 7000rpm and have a usable 250bhp.
We used to have a Carrera 2 and I still think back to the days of sideways action trackdays, no understeer, and long journeys just being eaten up.
I get lower back pain from the Scoob after a couple hours, but the C2 never.
The only draw back is the road noise, and its thirst for rear tyres. Other than that WICKED.!!.
Enjoy
M
We used to have a Carrera 2 and I still think back to the days of sideways action trackdays, no understeer, and long journeys just being eaten up.
I get lower back pain from the Scoob after a couple hours, but the C2 never.
The only draw back is the road noise, and its thirst for rear tyres. Other than that WICKED.!!.
Enjoy
M
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23 March 2001, 05:36 PM
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I don't think the statistics I saw differentiated between targa and coupe. As a whole it was 90+ 911's per 1000 stolen per annum. Imprezas were 20+.
Beautifully built they may have been, but porsches are not immune to going wrong, and when they do it can be pricey. The targas - at least the early ones - are also supposedly more prone to rust, as the reduced body rigity allows seems to open and let in moisture.
Gary.
Beautifully built they may have been, but porsches are not immune to going wrong, and when they do it can be pricey. The targas - at least the early ones - are also supposedly more prone to rust, as the reduced body rigity allows seems to open and let in moisture.
Gary.
23 March 2001, 06:38 PM
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DONT DO IT ! SERIOUSLY......
I owned a 1989 G Carrera 4 - for about 4 months - only 43K miles, looked gorgeous, decent acceleration etc etc.....
It will quite literally cost you a FORTUNE - servicing is circa £400-600 STANDARD (before anything needs replacing) etc... The engine on the 964 is the worst of all the 911's - susceptible to oil leaks (only rectified by a change in barrel & piston design after 1992), the top ends are weak and they are suscptible to burning oil etc.. That will cost you roughlt £3.5-4K to fix..... I know alot about them - feel free to e-mail me or call me on 0701 0702 911 if you want any advice.......But your asking for bankcruptcy with a 964. Stretch to a 993 - they are bullet proof, or go for a pre '89 911 - they are much cheaper to maintain........
Imlach will back me on this - after 4 months I eventually took it back to the Ferrari dealership and changed the car - it cost me big bucks...
Gastro
I owned a 1989 G Carrera 4 - for about 4 months - only 43K miles, looked gorgeous, decent acceleration etc etc.....
It will quite literally cost you a FORTUNE - servicing is circa £400-600 STANDARD (before anything needs replacing) etc... The engine on the 964 is the worst of all the 911's - susceptible to oil leaks (only rectified by a change in barrel & piston design after 1992), the top ends are weak and they are suscptible to burning oil etc.. That will cost you roughlt £3.5-4K to fix..... I know alot about them - feel free to e-mail me or call me on 0701 0702 911 if you want any advice.......But your asking for bankcruptcy with a 964. Stretch to a 993 - they are bullet proof, or go for a pre '89 911 - they are much cheaper to maintain........
Imlach will back me on this - after 4 months I eventually took it back to the Ferrari dealership and changed the car - it cost me big bucks...
Gastro
24 March 2001, 12:46 AM
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thanks for all the replies, I had a look at a C4 Targa and a C2 Coupe, I think I prefere the coupe, and with the advice above I think it will be a coupe I purchase.
They are absolutely lovely cars, today was the first time I have got close to one to have good look around, considering how old they are, the ones I looked at today were in fantastic condition.
All I need to do now is sell the scoob!
Cheers
Dave
They are absolutely lovely cars, today was the first time I have got close to one to have good look around, considering how old they are, the ones I looked at today were in fantastic condition.
All I need to do now is sell the scoob!
Cheers
Dave
24 March 2001, 08:55 AM
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Seriously consider a coupe, rather than a Targa. I've driven two targa's and they have both leaked, rattled and the wind noise at 80mph was worse than some modern convertibles! They are not as pretty either IMHO. Also, i have read/heard that C4's are very expensive to maintain, and really not worth the extra hassle over the C2. Interestingly, the C4's 4WD system is from the 959 but without the amazing constant active power distribution (or whatever Porsche actually call it!) Have you considered a LHD 964 RS? You should.
24 March 2001, 02:44 PM
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David,
I agree that the coupe is a better bet than the targa.........But there really is virtually nothing in it RE maintenance costs between a C4 and a C2 - the 4WD system is NOT the problem - its the 964 engine !!!!!!! Especially at this age ie circa 10 years old. The 964 RS is a better bet since they were produced after '92 & Hence had the new piston/barrel design. Anyway - someone else to speak to is a place called 930 motorsport in chesire - they'll confirm the inherent & extremely costly problems with the 964 engine. Finally - the dual mass flywheel is very weak --> to replace about £1.5K !! I hope you have a good bank balance.
Gastro
I agree that the coupe is a better bet than the targa.........But there really is virtually nothing in it RE maintenance costs between a C4 and a C2 - the 4WD system is NOT the problem - its the 964 engine !!!!!!! Especially at this age ie circa 10 years old. The 964 RS is a better bet since they were produced after '92 & Hence had the new piston/barrel design. Anyway - someone else to speak to is a place called 930 motorsport in chesire - they'll confirm the inherent & extremely costly problems with the 964 engine. Finally - the dual mass flywheel is very weak --> to replace about £1.5K !! I hope you have a good bank balance.
Gastro
24 March 2001, 03:47 PM
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Even if you buy a non-RS car registered 92 or later, don't assume that it'll be of the later engine design. We were in recession early 90's remember, and porsche weren't selling many cars - result was that some 964's were first registered years after they were new.
Gary.
Gary.
24 March 2001, 06:28 PM
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I saw a 911 Cab that was on an H reg, the service log showed that the car had just undergone major repair work regarding oil leaks and gasket replacements bla bla bla. Can't remember the exact details but do remember that involved alot of dismanteling (exhaust off etc etc).
Once a 911 has had such a repair is that the end of the story (other than keeping an eye on the oil level)? Surely they all don't suffer from this problem and it can't occur on a regular basis.
When I was speaking to the dealer today (and I know he will say almost anything to make the car appear attractive), he mentioned that the Targa had had the oil problem fixed and I could find out exactly when, and also the clutch had been replaced.
His general point is that a car of this age will more than likely have had all these things sorted out by now, ie, due to the high mileage the problem will have occured and been fixed. The key thing to check is that all the stamps are present in the service manual and that all the services have been carried out by a Porche dealer.
I understand that there are problems with this version of the 911, but if I'm carefull on selecting the car then these pitfalls can be avaoided? The dealer todat also offered an extended warranty for 2/3 years, would a fault like this be covered on the warranty?
Anyway, I'm still going to persue this and maybe extend my research into the 993. I have a friend who has sold Porches all his life (and now works for himself buying and selling performance cars) so I will hopefully get a good price on the model I choose once the scoob is sold and he will be able to check all the relevant details on the car before he sells it to me. He's a good guy and will not have me over.
This is all useful stuff, I have also considered buying on the private market where I have seen excellent examples for 2K less than what the dealers seem to be offereing. I'll have to keep looking at all the buying guides and take someone who knows about engines with me when I purchase.
Still, bl00dy nice cars !
Dave
Once a 911 has had such a repair is that the end of the story (other than keeping an eye on the oil level)? Surely they all don't suffer from this problem and it can't occur on a regular basis.
When I was speaking to the dealer today (and I know he will say almost anything to make the car appear attractive), he mentioned that the Targa had had the oil problem fixed and I could find out exactly when, and also the clutch had been replaced.
His general point is that a car of this age will more than likely have had all these things sorted out by now, ie, due to the high mileage the problem will have occured and been fixed. The key thing to check is that all the stamps are present in the service manual and that all the services have been carried out by a Porche dealer.
I understand that there are problems with this version of the 911, but if I'm carefull on selecting the car then these pitfalls can be avaoided? The dealer todat also offered an extended warranty for 2/3 years, would a fault like this be covered on the warranty?
Anyway, I'm still going to persue this and maybe extend my research into the 993. I have a friend who has sold Porches all his life (and now works for himself buying and selling performance cars) so I will hopefully get a good price on the model I choose once the scoob is sold and he will be able to check all the relevant details on the car before he sells it to me. He's a good guy and will not have me over.
This is all useful stuff, I have also considered buying on the private market where I have seen excellent examples for 2K less than what the dealers seem to be offereing. I'll have to keep looking at all the buying guides and take someone who knows about engines with me when I purchase.
Still, bl00dy nice cars !
Dave
24 March 2001, 07:48 PM
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David,
I can promise you - any gasket change and virtually any engine work for oil leaks etc is an engine out job.
Gasket changes are only a temporary measure - nearly *ALL* 964 engines that were built '89-'91 suffer from this problem - oil seapage occurs from 40K miles onwards & therafter start pi$$ing it out.
The only cure is to have new design piston & barrels put in along with the gasket change (circa £3.5K & 10 days work). Most places refuse to do a solitary gasket change 'cos the problem returns within 40K miles.
Dont get me wrong the 964 engine can handle the miles no problem otherwise - short journey's just wreck the valve guides tho' (circa £1K job - top end rebuild).
When I bought mine - I got a full RAC inspection etc... and it came with a Ferrari dealership warranty - but they are limited on a 10 year old car remember - its amazing what 'fair wear and tear' is covered and a top claim of £1000 won't go a long way on a 911............
If you *really* want a 964 911 - you *must* buy it from a Porsche UK dealer. They wont tell you this, but they rarely buy them in 'cos of the problems with them, but if they do, they often have had a full engine overhaul. Only problem is - Porsche dealers will charge you quite a lot extra for them circa £25-27K........You can pick up a 993 from Prestige Performance Cars for £27K & they are bullet proof.....[look at .]http://www.911virgin.com/ ].
Servicing on the 993 aint cheap (circa £400/12k miles), but they *dont* get oil leaks etc etc....
Good luck !
Gastro
[This message has been edited by Gastro (edited 24 March 2001).]
I can promise you - any gasket change and virtually any engine work for oil leaks etc is an engine out job.
Gasket changes are only a temporary measure - nearly *ALL* 964 engines that were built '89-'91 suffer from this problem - oil seapage occurs from 40K miles onwards & therafter start pi$$ing it out.
The only cure is to have new design piston & barrels put in along with the gasket change (circa £3.5K & 10 days work). Most places refuse to do a solitary gasket change 'cos the problem returns within 40K miles.
Dont get me wrong the 964 engine can handle the miles no problem otherwise - short journey's just wreck the valve guides tho' (circa £1K job - top end rebuild).
When I bought mine - I got a full RAC inspection etc... and it came with a Ferrari dealership warranty - but they are limited on a 10 year old car remember - its amazing what 'fair wear and tear' is covered and a top claim of £1000 won't go a long way on a 911............
If you *really* want a 964 911 - you *must* buy it from a Porsche UK dealer. They wont tell you this, but they rarely buy them in 'cos of the problems with them, but if they do, they often have had a full engine overhaul. Only problem is - Porsche dealers will charge you quite a lot extra for them circa £25-27K........You can pick up a 993 from Prestige Performance Cars for £27K & they are bullet proof.....[look at .]http://www.911virgin.com/ ].
Servicing on the 993 aint cheap (circa £400/12k miles), but they *dont* get oil leaks etc etc....
Good luck !
Gastro
[This message has been edited by Gastro (edited 24 March 2001).]
24 March 2001, 10:40 PM
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Ok, I know a car dealer who has kept a 911 964 for a couple of years, a long time really for him, he says it hasn't depreciated, but he has spent nearly £6k in 2.5 years and 30k and that was with a discount.
He loves the image though, but running cost are 2 - 3 x that of a scooby normaly and 5 X if something goes wrong (and they really do).
Buy a 993 or a Boxter if you can. Both are ok and people mistake the current 911 cabrio for boxters anyway. They will depreciate, but won't you wont end up selling you body to medical research to fund it
jon
He loves the image though, but running cost are 2 - 3 x that of a scooby normaly and 5 X if something goes wrong (and they really do).
Buy a 993 or a Boxter if you can. Both are ok and people mistake the current 911 cabrio for boxters anyway. They will depreciate, but won't you wont end up selling you body to medical research to fund it
jon
25 March 2001, 12:20 PM
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I was and still kind of am looking for a 993 C2 or C4, completely bullet proof and I love the C2S or C4S
LHD are soooow cheap, import one from Germany ie 993 C2 for around 20K with 50K on it! Im not too sure about the servicing costs for these but hey the looks are worth anything above it
LHD are soooow cheap, import one from Germany ie 993 C2 for around 20K with 50K on it! Im not too sure about the servicing costs for these but hey the looks are worth anything above it
25 March 2001, 02:29 PM
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yep,
Unless I find a 964 with a rebuild to negate oil leak problems (ther are some around and I will only buy from an official Porche dealer) I will shop around for a cheap 993.
Dave
Unless I find a 964 with a rebuild to negate oil leak problems (ther are some around and I will only buy from an official Porche dealer) I will shop around for a cheap 993.
Dave
25 March 2001, 07:08 PM
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WOW 
In my price range I can get a LHD from Germany,
993, MY96, 50,000KM, silver fully loaded,
many many similar examples of this !!!
sod a 10 year old car, I'm getting a left hooker
SOMEONE PLEASE BUY MY CAR !!!!
In my price range I can get a LHD from Germany,
993, MY96, 50,000KM, silver fully loaded,
many many similar examples of this !!!
sod a 10 year old car, I'm getting a left hooker
SOMEONE PLEASE BUY MY CAR !!!!
25 March 2001, 07:12 PM
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David that is a great price! If you don't get any joy with that one, talk to Iain Litchfield of Litchfield Imports as he can source anything from Germany. A short while ago he able to purchase a mint E30 M3 for 5K!
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