andy.downes

iTrader: (1)

These new breed of diesel cars are impossible to humble. My family came over this weekend with two Jaguar X-type 2.0l diesels and although eventually the scoob won over (2.5 WRX), compared to the outlay, the scoob seemed out of answers.

£425 tax compared to £120
20MPG when booting compared to 45+
300 miles to a tank compared to 600 miles
£300 insurance compared to £750
The acceleration was almost the same once moving (although the scooby had loads more revs to go through)

I think I want a diesel now. Possibly a mondeo ST or the like...any thoughts

SPEN555

Time spent at garage for stupid faults over 5 year period (e.g. DPF fault)

2.0d 15 Scoob nil

Sch ting!

Diesels are very good but very complex in getting to that performance level. IMO

andy.downes

iTrader: (1)

Yes I have heard the probs with the DPF...although, I can't help thinking I want to keep the scoob because of the cudos. Performance, is just not great anymore.
Maybe the £1500 scoobyclinic stage one will help but I'd rather know before I splurge on that rather than a Mondeo ST or other

ste_brough

iTrader: (2)

They might keep up with a WRX while they are in their torque band, but after that you should pull ahead surely?

I don't know the spec of that engine, but I would guess torque figures would be similar (if not, the Jag slightly more) ...

harvey

iTrader: (48)

My wife has a 1.9CDTi Vectra 150 bhp 236lbs/ft. Ignoring the trip computer it was running 54-56 mpg on a run and round town about 10 mpg less. I then decided to see what was possible for minimal expense. Modifications have been quite modest. Hybrid GT FMIC, which you cannot see, a SAAB turbo that is exactly the same as the Vauxhall cost £77 delivered. (17/49) I already had a 56 diameter wheel (VW Transporter 5 cyl)and the compressor cover was machined to take that. Total turbo cost £147. I ran a tuning box that raised rail pressure. Cost £89.99. Power was 200 bhp. Since then I have done some other work including 2.5" exhaust, car has been mapped and I added water methanol injection. Last RR figure was 282 bhp/388 lbs/ft. Do not put great store in these figures.
The car now drives like a performance petrol, can hit an indicated 140 mph easily in short distance, 5th gear. I have no idea as to top speed but probably a genuine 160+ mph in 6th. Driven normally 50 mph on a journey and over 40 mph on urban driving is still possible.
More to come.

If you have a Subaru deisle get in touch with Bob Rawle who can do a remap and add BHP, torque and refinement.

Megaman

iTrader: (4)

We have a family mondeo st tdci and had it remapped up to 182bhp / 423NM. (http://www.superchips.co.uk/curves/mondeo22sttdci.pdf) Car is a great all rounder doing 50+mpg on motorway journeys getting 600 per tank, yet pulls like a train. Day to day its comfy, far easier to live with than my STI. However as with most diesels, you start to lose the fun factor when you change out of a scoob. There is the EGR valve issue with them as they get clogged up when you do short journeys that dont let the car warm up properly. Although off the record you can do a minor tweak and take out this system to stop it happening again. If you wanted more power you can even get a specially made decat for the st tdci taking it to over 200bhp, but with FWD only all that torque, the standard car and remap is enough. Keep us posted what you choose to do.

Evolution Stu

iTrader: (2)

Turbo Diesels are the future of road car performance tuning. Having been in the performance tuning game for over 15 years, I have personally watched the market shift and we now remap between 20 and 25 diesels to every one petrol.

We now Advertise mainly in Diesel magazines and very few Petrols, the exact opposite of ten years ago.

ste_brough

iTrader: (2)

May be because they all NEED remapping

Evolution Stu

iTrader: (2)

I guess from that comment that you havent driven many performance diesels then?

Jamo

iTrader: (23)

stu what can you do to a 2.2 dti vectra? just swapped it for the impreza and a bit of too

andy.downes

iTrader: (1)

Hmmm. I'm beginning to realise that they are taking over big style. I think I like diesel performance because of the torque element, massive pull, low down. It's as if once running, the pull of diesel is a much more available power. The impreza is powerful, but you have to ring it's neck !

Trouble is, there are no Scoobclinic stage one videos really so I have no idea if a re-map / package will quell my disappointment.

ste_brough

iTrader: (2)

Not quite sure if you mean the same as me when you say "Performance diesel", but I've driven a fair few Vectra 1.9CDTi's, the more powerful version. Yes they are quick, but no where near Impreza performance standard? OK maybe they aren't far off a stock WRX, but still the scoob should be quicker.

ste_brough

iTrader: (2)

As standard maybe, but remapped should pull healthily from fairly low down (OK, so not as low as a diesel)

Evolution Stu

iTrader: (2)

Those are ok but we tend to term them "Bread & Butter" Turbo Diesels as they are pretty much a mainstream engine.

Try something like an Audi Q7 with 493bhp and 1000NM of torque or the BMW 745D with 325bhp and 700NM. The list goes on but even the lukewarm stuff like the little BMW 123D with 204 bhp and 400NM also makes for a fast road car.

All those figures are standard out of the box figures.
The tables are turning guys....

Evolution Stu

iTrader: (2)

Details on my database here:
http://www.evolutionchips.co.uk/Vehi...ng_Search.html

alcazar

iTrader: (2)

Blike across the road from me has just bought a black "S" type with sports pack, and a 2.7 litre bi-turbo engine.

Lovely car.

Littleted

keep the car just buy another

i have my 2011 saloon wife has a 150 CTDI zafira, and i do love driving it.

but as always ive been there done it and always came back to petrol

Stu is right in a way, the cost of fuel shafts us, and if you pick the right diesal it can return great benifts.

I had an AUDI A4 Sline mapped to 184 was fun but got boring fast

I then had a brand new Insignia SRI 160 mapped to 200 BHP by DTUK that was fun for 20 Mins till Injectors blew up, i also got bored of that after 14000 miles

I enjoy driving my scooby everytime, I even make excuses to take kids out cos its fun thing, I never had that in any diesal i had

but that aside i hazard a guess i would in the above Q7 lol

SRSport

I was seriously tempted by the ST TDCI, in fact I signed up to the ST forum to look into it further and have to say there seems to be far to many potential problems with it to warrant buying one, in fact some even said that the running costs, due to faults, are cheaper on the ST220.

I agree that with the direction diesel is going it will be the future but I have read far to many reliability reports on the current crop saying that diesels cost less at the pumps but a more in repairs. I know there are exceptions but I cant help thinking that the political euro greenies are causing these problems. I heard that Honda has stopped making diesels in Europe due to emission 5 regulations, Im not sure if this is 100% accurate but if true is very interesting.

Maz

iTrader: (34)

Guys don't buy in to all this diesel hyperbole. It does have it's benefits but it will never replace petrol as the enthusiast's choice.

JustCallMeMac

It's very easy in this day and age to be swayed by the 'economic' argument and performance diesels certainly make a very good case for themselves at a time when pump prices are so hurtful. Indeed, as someone said earlier, they could well be the future!

However, for me at least, as a petrol head, it's more about 'smiles per miles' and enjoying the car, its characteristics and everything it represents and is capable of.

Case in point; my day-to-day car is a 5 door MkV R32, which despite being quite thirsty, is very capable, very sensible and very practical and has a good turn of pace when needed, with a nice deep exhaust note to accompany it.

However, compared to my STI, which I'm lucky enough to have as a weekender, summer evening blast and occasional track day beast, the Golf is dull and it's the Hawkeye which puts a smile on my face everytime I turn that ignition key.

She just feels special and iconic and developed and built to be driven by those who enjoy driving in a more extreme fashion. I look forward to getting behind the wheel and I get a 'fix' out of it and at a time when many of us are leading stressful lives and working so damn hard to meet an ever increasing cost of living, I need to play a bit to 'take the edge off' and a bit of R&R in the Subaru gives me that.

And as somebody said to me at a Silverstone track day last week, for a petrol head to be able to enjoy his or her car, is the best fun you can have, at least with your clothes on.

I'd certainly second that and for me personally, I don't think I could say the same if I tried to get that same fix in a performance diesel, at least not right now!

ste_brough

iTrader: (2)

OK, so all those bar the 123D aren't 2ltr? OK when you start getting to The Q7's V12 6ltr diesel it's going to be a different story, but the thread started as comparison with the same engine capacity.

The 123D - 0-60 = 7 secs so slower than a scoob.
Audi Q7 V12 - 0-60 = 5.5secs?

I know, before anyone starts, that 0-60 times dont represent "real world driving", but they are indicative of performance.

The Trooper 1815

iTrader: (31)

And the fuel consumption in the real world is?

£98,255 unspecced Ins Gp 50 Q7 book is 25 MPG Tax band £435
£67,465 unspecced 740i D Ins Gp 49 book is 40.9 MPG Tax Band £200.
£25,020 unspecced SE123 d 3dr Ins Gp 32 book 60.1 MPG Tax Band £90.

I can see the advantages but aslo see why I like what I have.

paulbu

The reality is that by the time a diesel has the power to live with an Impreza, the fuel consumption increases to a point where the current difference in fuel prices between diesel and unleaded make for very little saving in running a diesel (diesel V-power was 8p per litre more than unleaded V-power today at my shell garage, in fact V-power was cheaper than standard diesel). The roads are full of 2.0 to 2.5 litre diesels with drivers who think that they are in something special performance wise. A decent Impreza picks them off like a sniper in a church tower, that is if you can see well enough to get past all the black smoke when the diesel floors it.

Evolution Stu

iTrader: (2)

I totally agree, that is why I still drive an M5 that averages about 12mpg. LOL


Erm no it didnt?!

ste_brough

iTrader: (2)

The thread title and the below say different?

ste_brough

iTrader: (2)

If you were referring to the WRX being 2.5, it's only 0.5 off

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

Solution = modded classic current / recentish WRX is a heavy b*stard with pretty low power really

TX.

topman2180

I was impressed by the figure of the Q7 0-60 5.5 seconds 6.0 v12 diesel then I saw the price £100,000

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

Ah but the performance petrol turbo engine is on the rise again, the wonders of low CO2 requirements

TX.

Maz

iTrader: (34)

It will be lucky to to crack above mid teens to the gallon too. That's combined figure.