ECU Remap - Open source or ECU Tec = Same results?
23 March 2011, 08:06 PM
#1
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ECU Remap - Open source or ECU Tec = Same results?
I have decided to get my Hatch remapped as the warranty is about to expire however
from a bit of research it is apparent there are two offerings available.
Open source and ECUTec, what has come as a shock is the difference in price! (About £300.00)
Is one really that better than the other?
What is the general consensus?
Both the mappers I have got a price from have quoted similar gains in BHP & Torque and I believe to be respected mappers which I believe is the most important factor here.
How can one compete with the other when there is nearly 100% difference for what appears to be the same thing or am I missing something here?
Surely the only difference is the tools to reprogram the ECU but the net effect is the same…
Any advise or thoughts?
from a bit of research it is apparent there are two offerings available.
Open source and ECUTec, what has come as a shock is the difference in price! (About £300.00)
Is one really that better than the other?
What is the general consensus?
Both the mappers I have got a price from have quoted similar gains in BHP & Torque and I believe to be respected mappers which I believe is the most important factor here.
How can one compete with the other when there is nearly 100% difference for what appears to be the same thing or am I missing something here?
Surely the only difference is the tools to reprogram the ECU but the net effect is the same…
Any advise or thoughts?
23 March 2011, 08:40 PM
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IMHO...
An OS mapper is a sole-trader and if you upset one you're on your own...
An Ecutek mapper pays a heavy "fee" as does the customer for a 100% business like deal... if you aren't happy then Ecutek themselves will do their upmost to make sure you get what you've paid for.
Mine has been mapped several times and the support and input from Richard Bulmer, JGM and Andrew Carr their advice has been superb.
In conclusion, if you keep cars for a while ( 9 years here ! So far ) then Ecutek. But if you chop and change cars each year then cheap and cheerful.
HTH
dunx
An OS mapper is a sole-trader and if you upset one you're on your own...
An Ecutek mapper pays a heavy "fee" as does the customer for a 100% business like deal... if you aren't happy then Ecutek themselves will do their upmost to make sure you get what you've paid for.
Mine has been mapped several times and the support and input from Richard Bulmer, JGM and Andrew Carr their advice has been superb.
In conclusion, if you keep cars for a while ( 9 years here ! So far ) then Ecutek. But if you chop and change cars each year then cheap and cheerful.
HTH
dunx
23 March 2011, 09:28 PM
#7
Remember that you only pay the EcuTek (not tec 
) license fee once, so any future re maps if you mod further are cheaper than the initial remap. I.e this price difference is only valid for the first purchase, any future mapping on the same car which ever route you take should be very similar cost.
) license fee once, so any future re maps if you mod further are cheaper than the initial remap. I.e this price difference is only valid for the first purchase, any future mapping on the same car which ever route you take should be very similar cost.
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23 March 2011, 09:40 PM
#8
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From what i have read and heard on here there is more than a little "mapper" snobbery, and bare in mind IMHO mappers must love these forums, we are a static audience for guys to post up their incredible gains...every major mapper on here is a "superb guy" and they all offer a "superb service" with "amazing results"
...again from my reading experience.....
all that said i know a lot of guys who enjoy great results with OS mapping, but back we go to the mapping snobbery, and it feels on SNET if you have'nt seen JGM or whoever, then you are considered a 2nd class citizen....rarely if ever have i read of anyone moaning that a map was ****, or the mapper was an a$$hole......yet some maps must be ****, and must hurt cars in the short & logn term, and some mappers must be a$$holes....
mappers spend a fair few £££ getting ECUTEK accreditation, so i guess they would prefere you to go down that route??...
...again from my reading experience.....
all that said i know a lot of guys who enjoy great results with OS mapping, but back we go to the mapping snobbery, and it feels on SNET if you have'nt seen JGM or whoever, then you are considered a 2nd class citizen....rarely if ever have i read of anyone moaning that a map was ****, or the mapper was an a$$hole......yet some maps must be ****, and must hurt cars in the short & logn term, and some mappers must be a$$holes....
mappers spend a fair few £££ getting ECUTEK accreditation, so i guess they would prefere you to go down that route??...
Last edited by SpecDscooby; 23 March 2011 at 09:42 PM.
23 March 2011, 11:56 PM
#10
What Rob84 (above) might want to say is that EcuTeK seem to be first with features like anti-lag, launch control, MAF-less, blip on downshift and the like for the drive by wire / mega-rom later OEM ECU's
For bog-standard fuel / boost / timing it's hard to beat a good mapper with opensource but for anything more complicated then EcuTeK is the way to go
My take is forget the ECU ........the Mapper is the guy in charge and not the ECU
Shaun
For bog-standard fuel / boost / timing it's hard to beat a good mapper with opensource but for anything more complicated then EcuTeK is the way to go
My take is forget the ECU ........the Mapper is the guy in charge and not the ECU
Shaun
24 March 2011, 01:17 AM
#11
Open source is just as good as Ecutek if not better I have the Ecutek software for all GDB 2001-2007 legacys etc ej20 however we don't use it. I have Engine mapper coming down this week who will be showing me his trickery with open source so I can let you know how I get on.
24 March 2011, 01:40 AM
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Open source is just as good as Ecutek if not better I have the Ecutek software for all GDB 2001-2007 legacys etc ej20 however we don't use it. I have Engine mapper coming down this week who will be showing me his trickery with open source so I can let you know how I get on.
Or do you mean you have Deltadash/EasyEcu that you can purchase from an Ecutek dealer?
24 March 2011, 01:53 AM
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What Rob84 (above) might want to say is that EcuTeK seem to be first with features like anti-lag, launch control, MAF-less, blip on downshift and the like for the drive by wire / mega-rom later OEM ECU's
For bog-standard fuel / boost / timing it's hard to beat a good mapper with opensource but for anything more complicated then EcuTeK is the way to go
My take is forget the ECU ........the Mapper is the guy in charge and not the ECU
Shaun
For bog-standard fuel / boost / timing it's hard to beat a good mapper with opensource but for anything more complicated then EcuTeK is the way to go
My take is forget the ECU ........the Mapper is the guy in charge and not the ECU
Shaun
The Opensource guys have been at the forefront for sometime now with the extra features over and above the basic map and Ecutek are just beginning to catch up as the market dictates.
What Ecutek do have is a very strong brand built upon their early monopoly
with Subaru ECU's.
'Clunky' isn't a word I'd use to describe the opensource software suite for Subaru ECU's although there are better alternative's and having used the Ecutek alternative's since 2005 (and Ecutek a couple of time's) I can confirm that the result's are based on the mapper rather than the tool's used to conduct the work.
24 March 2011, 01:54 AM
#15
24 March 2011, 01:58 AM
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My all time favourite post :o)
From what i have read and heard on here there is more than a little "mapper" snobbery, and bare in mind IMHO mappers must love these forums, we are a static audience for guys to post up their incredible gains...every major mapper on here is a "superb guy" and they all offer a "superb service" with "amazing results"
...again from my reading experience.....
all that said i know a lot of guys who enjoy great results with OS mapping, but back we go to the mapping snobbery, and it feels on SNET if you have'nt seen JGM or whoever, then you are considered a 2nd class citizen....rarely if ever have i read of anyone moaning that a map was ****, or the mapper was an a$$hole......yet some maps must be ****, and must hurt cars in the short & logn term, and some mappers must be a$$holes....
mappers spend a fair few £££ getting ECUTEK accreditation, so i guess they would prefere you to go down that route??...
...again from my reading experience.....
all that said i know a lot of guys who enjoy great results with OS mapping, but back we go to the mapping snobbery, and it feels on SNET if you have'nt seen JGM or whoever, then you are considered a 2nd class citizen....rarely if ever have i read of anyone moaning that a map was ****, or the mapper was an a$$hole......yet some maps must be ****, and must hurt cars in the short & logn term, and some mappers must be a$$holes....
mappers spend a fair few £££ getting ECUTEK accreditation, so i guess they would prefere you to go down that route??...
24 March 2011, 03:52 AM
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Remember that you only pay the EcuTek (not tec ) license fee once, so any future re maps if you mod further are cheaper than the initial remap. I.e this price difference is only valid for the first purchase, any future mapping on the same car which ever route you take should be very similar cost.
) license fee once, so any future re maps if you mod further are cheaper than the initial remap. I.e this price difference is only valid for the first purchase, any future mapping on the same car which ever route you take should be very similar cost.
24 March 2011, 06:35 AM
#18
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my ( real 
) pal couldn't get any power increase from an OS map/mapper so went back to M.J. @ Enginetuner and gained 50 bhp...
I asked JGM to make sure mine lasted a year, and it's managed two so far, 400+ bhp, 2+ bar of boost and it's still going. OEM STI engine.
dunx
P.S. You are paying for the mappers experience, IMHO.
) pal couldn't get any power increase from an OS map/mapper so went back to M.J. @ Enginetuner and gained 50 bhp...I asked JGM to make sure mine lasted a year, and it's managed two so far, 400+ bhp, 2+ bar of boost and it's still going. OEM STI engine.
dunx
P.S. You are paying for the mappers experience, IMHO.
24 March 2011, 07:31 AM
#19
What a load of ol'tosh.......
The Opensource guys have been at the forefront for sometime now with the extra features over and above the basic map and Ecutek are just beginning to catch up as the market dictates.
What Ecutek do have is a very strong brand built upon their early monopoly
with Subaru ECU's.
'Clunky' isn't a word I'd use to describe the opensource software suite for Subaru ECU's although there are better alternative's and having used the Ecutek alternative's since 2005 (and Ecutek a couple of time's) I can confirm that the result's are based on the mapper rather than the tool's used to conduct the work.
The Opensource guys have been at the forefront for sometime now with the extra features over and above the basic map and Ecutek are just beginning to catch up as the market dictates.
What Ecutek do have is a very strong brand built upon their early monopoly
with Subaru ECU's.
'Clunky' isn't a word I'd use to describe the opensource software suite for Subaru ECU's although there are better alternative's and having used the Ecutek alternative's since 2005 (and Ecutek a couple of time's) I can confirm that the result's are based on the mapper rather than the tool's used to conduct the work.
Ultimately I would make your choice based on the mapper using the software rather than the software itself.
As Mo says, the special tools that ecutek are now starting to introduce have been around for ages in the OS scene - nice to see they are starting to catch up
There are one or two things that ecutek can do that the OS software cant from my experience but they rarely get used, such as key coding and swapping polarity on NPS. Would be lovely if OS did this but heyho.
24 March 2011, 07:42 AM
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It's the ECU which is licenced and not the car or owner in all reality.
Last edited by Cannon Fodder; 24 March 2011 at 07:44 AM.
24 March 2011, 08:28 AM
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ultimately what you are paying for is the mapper's experience. any fool can map a subaru. very few can map them well. whether it is ESL, EcuTek, Simtek, MoTec, Solaris, Autronic, an understanding of how an engine works and what happens if you alter one of many parameters goes a long way to ensuring your subaru is mapped safely and efficiently. i would always choose a mapper who has a proven track record mapping cars both in the summer and the winter.
24 March 2011, 08:33 AM
#22
IMHO...
An OS mapper is a sole-trader and if you upset one you're on your own...
An Ecutek mapper pays a heavy "fee" as does the customer for a 100% business like deal... if you aren't happy then Ecutek themselves will do their upmost to make sure you get what you've paid for.
Mine has been mapped several times and the support and input from Richard Bulmer, JGM and Andrew Carr their advice has been superb.
In conclusion, if you keep cars for a while ( 9 years here ! So far ) then Ecutek. But if you chop and change cars each year then cheap and cheerful.
HTH
dunx
An OS mapper is a sole-trader and if you upset one you're on your own...
An Ecutek mapper pays a heavy "fee" as does the customer for a 100% business like deal... if you aren't happy then Ecutek themselves will do their upmost to make sure you get what you've paid for.
Mine has been mapped several times and the support and input from Richard Bulmer, JGM and Andrew Carr their advice has been superb.
In conclusion, if you keep cars for a while ( 9 years here ! So far ) then Ecutek. But if you chop and change cars each year then cheap and cheerful.
HTH
dunx
24 March 2011, 09:02 AM
#23
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I have decided to get my Hatch remapped as the warranty is about to expire however
from a bit of research it is apparent there are two offerings available.
Open source and ECUTec, what has come as a shock is the difference in price! (About £300.00)
Is one really that better than the other?
What is the general consensus?
Both the mappers I have got a price from have quoted similar gains in BHP & Torque and I believe to be respected mappers which I believe is the most important factor here.
How can one compete with the other when there is nearly 100% difference for what appears to be the same thing or am I missing something here?
Surely the only difference is the tools to reprogram the ECU but the net effect is the same…
Any advise or thoughts?
from a bit of research it is apparent there are two offerings available.
Open source and ECUTec, what has come as a shock is the difference in price! (About £300.00)
Is one really that better than the other?
What is the general consensus?
Both the mappers I have got a price from have quoted similar gains in BHP & Torque and I believe to be respected mappers which I believe is the most important factor here.
How can one compete with the other when there is nearly 100% difference for what appears to be the same thing or am I missing something here?
Surely the only difference is the tools to reprogram the ECU but the net effect is the same…
Any advise or thoughts?
24 March 2011, 01:48 PM
#24
The decision has to be based on the mapper and not Ecutek vs Open source.
Iv had my previous Spec C Ecutek mapped by a well known tuning company (Not Litchfields) & I wasn't happy with the overall service nor the map. My Ver6 Type R (now sold) was Open Source mapped by FB Tuning & I was very happy with his service & map.
Yes OS can be cheaper if your ECU is not already Ecutek licence fee paid, but ultimately the Map is the most important thing on your car, so a few hundred pounds here or there is not the issue. Whose map it is, is the important thing.
Iv had my previous Spec C Ecutek mapped by a well known tuning company (Not Litchfields) & I wasn't happy with the overall service nor the map. My Ver6 Type R (now sold) was Open Source mapped by FB Tuning & I was very happy with his service & map.
Yes OS can be cheaper if your ECU is not already Ecutek licence fee paid, but ultimately the Map is the most important thing on your car, so a few hundred pounds here or there is not the issue. Whose map it is, is the important thing.
24 March 2011, 05:22 PM
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Thats true and if things go wrong people like Andrew Carr don`t bother returning to put it right (FACT) as he did one for me a few years ago and when it was on the rollers it was deting, he still hasn`t refunded me or been near to correct it, you will not get the same with EcuTek.
As for not getting the same with ecutek, behave yourself. I have seen ecutek maps, supposedly done by reputable mappers that could have been done better by a blind 5 year old. It's how the software is programmed and that is down to the experience of the mapper
24 March 2011, 05:43 PM
#30
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That is the great thing about not living in a communist state...
it is called FREEDOM OF SPEECH....
clearly JDM Stig feels aggrieved by Andrew Carr, and outside of a liable suit which would frankly be laughed out of court there is nothing you...bigsinky, or Andrew Carr can do about it.....
why should we not hear about bad experiences......as i said ALL i EVER hear is how GREAt mappers are, and HOW SUPERB their services are....must be a lot of guys to proud to just say..."£500 is a joke amount of money for what is basically very little work"....but of course the gains are there for all to see.....
so i guess its all about what kinda coin you have at the time....for pure BHP gains and no requirement for anti lag or launch or whatever i would go open source, even if just becuase i dont think a mapper makes as much coin off of it, which is why EVERYONE is keen to bad mouth OS.....guys that have spent on ECUTEK will tell you its a MUST, those who have'nt will say it is not necessary, the mappers (or SNET GODS) will tell you whatever free's your coin up...no offense to anyone its surely just pure business....
Just remember as i said....IMO mappers must LOVE these forums, if you post a thread about mapping you will have a reply from a mapper within minutes, just as we have seen here....nothing wrong in that of course, but a lot of their business clearly comes from this/ these forums....
Last edited by SpecDscooby; 24 March 2011 at 05:52 PM.