Prodrive PP
06 November 1999, 02:04 PM
#1
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Just for info.
Had my UK MY99 plotted up at PE when standard and it was 242BHP and 225lb/ft torque (at 1500 miles a few weeks back) running SUL.
Today, after having had a Prodrive Power Pack and Scoobysport ITG filter, the result was 259bhp and 257lb/ft torque, albeit with an extra 1k on the clock.
I have contacted Paul Strong and the charts will hopefully appear on his site sometime soon!
Regards
Had my UK MY99 plotted up at PE when standard and it was 242BHP and 225lb/ft torque (at 1500 miles a few weeks back) running SUL.
Today, after having had a Prodrive Power Pack and Scoobysport ITG filter, the result was 259bhp and 257lb/ft torque, albeit with an extra 1k on the clock.
I have contacted Paul Strong and the charts will hopefully appear on his site sometime soon!
Regards
06 November 1999, 02:51 PM
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mcromie, if you see any dyno plots you will see that Subaru underestimates the power of the cars. Most are around the 230 bhp mark. My own car is a UK MY94 and with only a filter and exhaust change was making 243 bhp on PE's dyno,
Mark
Mark
06 November 1999, 03:33 PM
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Sunilp,
Is the PPP for MY99 worth the money? You've only gained 17 bhp. There is a large improvement in torque though !!!
Do you recommend the PPP or should we wait for the P.E. Phase II upgrade???
Thanks
Dino
PS: what about your 3 years warranty?
Is the PPP for MY99 worth the money? You've only gained 17 bhp. There is a large improvement in torque though !!!
Do you recommend the PPP or should we wait for the P.E. Phase II upgrade???
Thanks
Dino
PS: what about your 3 years warranty?
06 November 1999, 06:15 PM
#6
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Adam is absolutely right...without wishing to spark an old debate but torque is what matters much more than bhp gains.
Dino
I dont know if its worth it for the money but such is life. If you want a recognised warranty approved conversion then, at the moment, its your only choice.
I am getting a suitable downpipe next (as long as its ok with my dealer re warranty). This should make the torque and turbo spin up time absolutely fantastic. See Paul Strongs Dyno Site with Jonathan Rigby's RB5 prodrive with PE T75 downpipe! I have been told I think it might be better with a less restrictive (albeit noisier) back box.....this means i've paid £1800 quid for some intercooler piping and an ECU!.......ha ha ha.....live life!
Anyone want to buy a prodrive back box?
If you have an import or don't care about warranty then i guess a remap will probably be more cost effective (depends when available i suppose! - no good if your gonna have to wait 2 years!) I know its supposed to be "invisible" but i have heard of a few engines going "pop" recently that have been remapped.....hence MY CHOICE! (yes and i mean a REMAP...NOT A UNICHIP OR SUPERCHIP!)
If you're ever down in South London/Surrey then you're more than welcome to try it out!
Regards
[This message has been edited by sunilp (edited 06-11-1999).]
Dino
I dont know if its worth it for the money but such is life. If you want a recognised warranty approved conversion then, at the moment, its your only choice.
I am getting a suitable downpipe next (as long as its ok with my dealer re warranty). This should make the torque and turbo spin up time absolutely fantastic. See Paul Strongs Dyno Site with Jonathan Rigby's RB5 prodrive with PE T75 downpipe! I have been told I think it might be better with a less restrictive (albeit noisier) back box.....this means i've paid £1800 quid for some intercooler piping and an ECU!.......ha ha ha.....live life!
Anyone want to buy a prodrive back box?
If you have an import or don't care about warranty then i guess a remap will probably be more cost effective (depends when available i suppose! - no good if your gonna have to wait 2 years!) I know its supposed to be "invisible" but i have heard of a few engines going "pop" recently that have been remapped.....hence MY CHOICE! (yes and i mean a REMAP...NOT A UNICHIP OR SUPERCHIP!)
If you're ever down in South London/Surrey then you're more than welcome to try it out!
Regards
[This message has been edited by sunilp (edited 06-11-1999).]
06 November 1999, 06:55 PM
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Hi guys...
The thing about being "invisible" is pooh...
Plug the select box in and it wont report an additional chip... but if you look at some of the values it does give you... a good mechanic/technician will notice the values arent standard..boost...fuelling.... etc..
The Select box will virtually give all values from the engine...
The Select box isnt used for services, etc... only for diagnostics...and chances are if the engine isnt running right after the remap, you'd take the car back to PE anyway... lol
J.
The thing about being "invisible" is pooh...
Plug the select box in and it wont report an additional chip... but if you look at some of the values it does give you... a good mechanic/technician will notice the values arent standard..boost...fuelling.... etc..
The Select box will virtually give all values from the engine...
The Select box isnt used for services, etc... only for diagnostics...and chances are if the engine isnt running right after the remap, you'd take the car back to PE anyway... lol
J.
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06 November 1999, 07:13 PM
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Hi guys...
The thing about being "invisible" is pooh...
Plug the select box in and it wont report an additional chip... but if you look at some of the values it does give you... a good mechanic/technician will notice the values arent standard..boost...fuelling.... etc..
The Select box will virtually give all values from the engine...
The Select box isnt used for services, etc... only for diagnostics...and chances are if the engine isnt running right after the remap, you'd take the car back to PE anyway... lol
J.
The thing about being "invisible" is pooh...
Plug the select box in and it wont report an additional chip... but if you look at some of the values it does give you... a good mechanic/technician will notice the values arent standard..boost...fuelling.... etc..
The Select box will virtually give all values from the engine...
The Select box isnt used for services, etc... only for diagnostics...and chances are if the engine isnt running right after the remap, you'd take the car back to PE anyway... lol
J.
07 November 1999, 03:37 AM
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Hi Sunilp,
It could be that I'm coming over to the UK to watch the Network Q Rally (I live in Belgium). I'm not sure, depends on how much work I have.
If I were to come, I'd love a test drive !!!
You're 100% right about torque, that's what really matters. I'm having little difficulties choosing between the PPP or the Phase II (I've heard it would be released at the end of the year !!!). In Belgium, the dealers all have their stories about the PPP. Some say that your warranty isn't affected, some say it is! Go figure !!!
One thing is becoming more and more clear to me: I WAS BORN IN THE WRONG COUNTRY !!!!!!!!
Ciao
Dino
It could be that I'm coming over to the UK to watch the Network Q Rally (I live in Belgium). I'm not sure, depends on how much work I have.
If I were to come, I'd love a test drive !!!
You're 100% right about torque, that's what really matters. I'm having little difficulties choosing between the PPP or the Phase II (I've heard it would be released at the end of the year !!!). In Belgium, the dealers all have their stories about the PPP. Some say that your warranty isn't affected, some say it is! Go figure !!!
One thing is becoming more and more clear to me: I WAS BORN IN THE WRONG COUNTRY !!!!!!!!
Ciao
Dino
07 November 1999, 08:23 AM
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Dino
Well, if you do come over then let me know in advance.
Yes we were all born in the wrong country - we should have been born in JAPAN!......he he he!
Regards
[This message has been edited by sunilp (edited 07-11-1999).]
Well, if you do come over then let me know in advance.
Yes we were all born in the wrong country - we should have been born in JAPAN!......he he he!
Regards
[This message has been edited by sunilp (edited 07-11-1999).]
07 November 1999, 01:19 PM
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Most people know that I reckon the PPP is a bit of a rip-off!
You pay nearly £2k for a filter, backbox and ECU chip. Then most people change the Prodrive back box for a SS one. You get increases of approx 15bhp + 30b/ft.
I know torque is the most important factor, but if you able to but each item individually it would be much better.
Yes, you get a warranty still, but if you go to PE and get a phase 1 for example, and problems arise, they'll sort it out.
In my opinion, the PPP only comes into play if you have a MY99 and really can't wait.
For half the total outlay of the PPP, you can have 20+ more bhp and 20+ more lb/ft of torque! (Re-map, exhaust, filter). You could then get Leda B or better brakes with the money left over.
It's very much a personal choice, but not one I'd personally make. No offence to those that have purchased it though, I'm sure you're all very happy with it!
Stef.
You pay nearly £2k for a filter, backbox and ECU chip. Then most people change the Prodrive back box for a SS one. You get increases of approx 15bhp + 30b/ft.
I know torque is the most important factor, but if you able to but each item individually it would be much better.
Yes, you get a warranty still, but if you go to PE and get a phase 1 for example, and problems arise, they'll sort it out.
In my opinion, the PPP only comes into play if you have a MY99 and really can't wait.
For half the total outlay of the PPP, you can have 20+ more bhp and 20+ more lb/ft of torque! (Re-map, exhaust, filter). You could then get Leda B or better brakes with the money left over.
It's very much a personal choice, but not one I'd personally make. No offence to those that have purchased it though, I'm sure you're all very happy with it!
Stef.
07 November 1999, 03:05 PM
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I agree with Adam, I have an RB5 WR sport and no car I test drove at any of the dealers came anywhere near it for response, torque or top end grunt. I have since driven an MY99 and they are not comparable.
The PPP might be a bit on the expensive side but it certainly works and you keep your warranty.
Cheers
Tony.
PS As for the Network Q, Rally of GB or whatever they call it now, go for it geezer, get on the ferry and get in them forrests with the rest of us!
The PPP might be a bit on the expensive side but it certainly works and you keep your warranty.
Cheers
Tony.
PS As for the Network Q, Rally of GB or whatever they call it now, go for it geezer, get on the ferry and get in them forrests with the rest of us!
07 November 1999, 04:03 PM
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Guys,
How different is the intercooler piping, can anybody mail me some pictures??? (email DinoWRX@vt4.net)
The Prodrive rear wing, is it also sold seperately?
Did any of you do some acceleration tests before and after??? Some figures would be nice for comparing.
Anders' engine blow-up, was it P.E. related? I've heard different stories, now I would like to hear the truth ( the truth is out there .......... )
Bye
Dino
How different is the intercooler piping, can anybody mail me some pictures??? (email DinoWRX@vt4.net)
The Prodrive rear wing, is it also sold seperately?
Did any of you do some acceleration tests before and after??? Some figures would be nice for comparing.
Anders' engine blow-up, was it P.E. related? I've heard different stories, now I would like to hear the truth ( the truth is out there .......... )
Bye
Dino
07 November 1999, 04:21 PM
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Stef,
I hear what your saying but MY99 owners are over a barrel at the moment (i couldnt wait!) and, also REMAPS can make your engine go BANG. Now, i dont fancy having mine rebuilt at any point thankyou very much!
Dino
The Prodrive rear wing is sold seperately (i dont have it!)
See Links on SIDC as someone has scanned the brochure into their web page!
I havent got any before and after acceleration figures but they are in the Prodrive Literature for the pack. I think the PPP is more about driveability and punch than outright acceleration.
Jay
Is there anything you DONT KNOW!
[This message has been edited by sunilp (edited 07-11-1999).]
I hear what your saying but MY99 owners are over a barrel at the moment (i couldnt wait!) and, also REMAPS can make your engine go BANG. Now, i dont fancy having mine rebuilt at any point thankyou very much!
Dino
The Prodrive rear wing is sold seperately (i dont have it!)
See Links on SIDC as someone has scanned the brochure into their web page!
I havent got any before and after acceleration figures but they are in the Prodrive Literature for the pack. I think the PPP is more about driveability and punch than outright acceleration.
Jay
Is there anything you DONT KNOW!
[This message has been edited by sunilp (edited 07-11-1999).]
08 November 1999, 03:44 PM
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I had a standard 99MY, I was waiting for the PE conversion but got fed up waiting. In the end after speaking to people who had already done the PPP, I decided to go for it. All I can say IMHO it is definetly worth it, I could feel the difference straight away as there is a big difference. This weekend I have had a downpipe fitted and now the car is absolutely scary. It's bottom end is awesome and pulls strong all the way to the red line. I think if you do have a PPP then you have to have a downpipe otherwise you are not doing it justice. As I had a Scooby back box already I changed my Prodrive back box for this. IMHO the car felt stronger with the Prodive back box between 2500 - 3200 after 3200 they felt the same. Subsequently I changed back to the Prodrive back box and sold my Scooby exhaust. This is only my opinion and not intended to offend anybody .
Bash
Bash
08 November 1999, 03:55 PM
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What exactly is the difference between a re-map on a standard ECU, and the actual Prodrive ECU?
Is it not simply a standard ECU to which they have added different parameters (ie, re-mapped)?
Of course a PPP'd car will feel better at a test drive compared to a standard car, but has anyone driven a PPP and then a car equipped with a re-map (PE). I think the difference between a PE car and a PPP car would be the same as the difference between a PPP car and a standard one.
Having never been in either, I've got no idea what I'm talking about, but I'd be interested to hear the view of someone that's driven all three versions.
Stef.
Is it not simply a standard ECU to which they have added different parameters (ie, re-mapped)?
Of course a PPP'd car will feel better at a test drive compared to a standard car, but has anyone driven a PPP and then a car equipped with a re-map (PE). I think the difference between a PE car and a PPP car would be the same as the difference between a PPP car and a standard one.
Having never been in either, I've got no idea what I'm talking about
, but I'd be interested to hear the view of someone that's driven all three versions.Stef.
08 November 1999, 07:19 PM
#21
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Stef, we are talking about the MY99 PPP so it is impossible to compare a 99 PPP with a 99 PE Remap as the latter does not exist yet.
And like i said, remaps make you go bang (sometimes!)
And like i said, remaps make you go bang (sometimes!)
08 November 1999, 07:19 PM
#22
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Stef, we are talking about the MY99 PPP so it is impossible to compare a 99 PPP with a 99 PE Remap as the latter does not exist yet.
And like i said, CERTAIN remaps CAN make you go bang (sometimes!)So, whilst a Prodrive ECU is a remapped unit, something isnt the same!
And like i said, CERTAIN remaps CAN make you go bang (sometimes!)So, whilst a Prodrive ECU is a remapped unit, something isnt the same!
08 November 1999, 09:16 PM
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Hi guys..
The prodrive PP ECU is just an ECU with different maps. It cant be classed as remapped.. as the PPP maps are the only ones the ECU ever had... Prodrive have spent a looooong time refining the standard maps....
The difference is in the mapping... PE take each car to its limit, hence why they individually map each car.. and why a few cars have gone bang (is it 5 upto now ?oops). The PPP ECU isnt pushing the car to such extremes.. they have mapped it to obtain max performance, but to allow it to work on everycar without any problems.
If you compare the PE development costs to the Prodrive ones...you'll laugh... Hence why Prodrive charge so much.
The ECU can give the most gains... mapping is a fine art.. that takes 1000's of miles and 100's of hours to achieve...
I'm not slating PE... but there is no way you can compare the two companies experience and knowledge. PE has a few years (maybe 2)..compared to Prodrive's legacy ?
J.
The prodrive PP ECU is just an ECU with different maps. It cant be classed as remapped.. as the PPP maps are the only ones the ECU ever had... Prodrive have spent a looooong time refining the standard maps....
The difference is in the mapping... PE take each car to its limit, hence why they individually map each car.. and why a few cars have gone bang (is it 5 upto now ?oops). The PPP ECU isnt pushing the car to such extremes.. they have mapped it to obtain max performance, but to allow it to work on everycar without any problems.
If you compare the PE development costs to the Prodrive ones...you'll laugh... Hence why Prodrive charge so much.
The ECU can give the most gains... mapping is a fine art.. that takes 1000's of miles and 100's of hours to achieve...
I'm not slating PE... but there is no way you can compare the two companies experience and knowledge. PE has a few years (maybe 2)..compared to Prodrive's legacy ?
J.
08 November 1999, 09:30 PM
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Firefox, can you confirm that 5 PE remapped cars have gone pop? Thats the reason that I went the PE route, as I wanted more performance, but within safe parameters [ as opposed to something like a Superchip]. Anyone with any info on these incidents? Did these happen on the road, or during track time? Anders?
regards, Mark
regards, Mark
08 November 1999, 10:31 PM
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Guys,
I thought that a P.E. remap was invisible??? How are you going to hide a blown engine from your dealer ???
Did David Power give any financial support to the victims ???
The rumour is that Anders fiddled around with a programmable ECU (Motec ???) and that caused his engine to blow. Firefox, you seem to be in another league when facts are consurned, can you explain this one please??
Thanks
Dino
I thought that a P.E. remap was invisible??? How are you going to hide a blown engine from your dealer ???
Did David Power give any financial support to the victims ???
The rumour is that Anders fiddled around with a programmable ECU (Motec ???) and that caused his engine to blow. Firefox, you seem to be in another league when facts are consurned, can you explain this one please??
Thanks
Dino
09 November 1999, 09:48 AM
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Dino
Interesting rumour on Anders' car and complete cobblers!!
He had a Power Engineering re-map which means that it is based on the standard ECU which means that you can't alter anything unless you take it back to Power Engineering.
Regards
Ben
Interesting rumour on Anders' car and complete cobblers!!
He had a Power Engineering re-map which means that it is based on the standard ECU which means that you can't alter anything unless you take it back to Power Engineering.
Regards
Ben
09 November 1999, 09:50 AM
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Hi chaps...
I should never have said anything...
Please contact PE is relation to any concerns.... If you are concerned about the remap... get it in writing that they havent had any problems with engines blowing or developing problems. Although how they relate the remap to an engine blowing is a grey area...
Anders has never had a Motec system (or any adjustable ECU).... he had a PE remap done... again.. perhaps a coincedence that his engine developed problems afterwards... Speak to Anders about it.
J. *keeping quiet now*
I should never have said anything...
Please contact PE is relation to any concerns.... If you are concerned about the remap... get it in writing that they havent had any problems with engines blowing or developing problems. Although how they relate the remap to an engine blowing is a grey area...
Anders has never had a Motec system (or any adjustable ECU).... he had a PE remap done... again.. perhaps a coincedence that his engine developed problems afterwards... Speak to Anders about it.
J. *keeping quiet now*
09 November 1999, 10:20 AM
#28
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Sunilp.
MY99 remaps are available, just not from PE in this country.
Didn't someone from Switzerland say there were at least three firms there that were offering the service?
J.
Thanks for that.
Stef.
MY99 remaps are available, just not from PE in this country.
Didn't someone from Switzerland say there were at least three firms there that were offering the service?
J.
Thanks for that.
Stef.
09 November 1999, 05:46 PM
#29
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Graphs are now on Paul Strongs site - thankyou very much Paul
Bash
What downpipe have you got?
Stef
Someone did say that Stef but we have no indication as to reliability etc. That is my whole point "RELIABILITY"....and i cant be arsed to go to Sweden for a rechip....and what about WARRANTY again?
At the end of the day its all down to the risks you take. Look at that Cossie geezer you keep ranting on with....all very well having that sort of power but things keep going bang and breaking!. Personally, i need a car that i can use all the time without hassle. I know countless people with OTT modified cars and they spend 70% of the time fixing em and 30% driving em. I am not a mechanic but i appreciate performance with reliability and useability.
I AM NOT SLATING ANY SUPPLIER WITH THE ABOVE STATEMENT, BUT JUST SAYING WHY I WENT FOR THE PPP.
[This message has been edited by sunilp (edited 09-11-1999).]
Bash
What downpipe have you got?
Stef
Someone did say that Stef but we have no indication as to reliability etc. That is my whole point "RELIABILITY"....and i cant be arsed to go to Sweden for a rechip....and what about WARRANTY again?
At the end of the day its all down to the risks you take. Look at that Cossie geezer you keep ranting on with....all very well having that sort of power but things keep going bang and breaking!. Personally, i need a car that i can use all the time without hassle. I know countless people with OTT modified cars and they spend 70% of the time fixing em and 30% driving em. I am not a mechanic but i appreciate performance with reliability and useability.
I AM NOT SLATING ANY SUPPLIER WITH THE ABOVE STATEMENT, BUT JUST SAYING WHY I WENT FOR THE PPP.
[This message has been edited by sunilp (edited 09-11-1999).]