47 NAT

I'm getting rid of my current car and i'm looking to get an E30 M3 Evo II!! I'm looking for tips and advice on these as dont know too much about them....

Thanxs in advance!

Nath

IWatkins

Nath,

Probably one of the best cars out there, how is that for an opinion ?

Very competent track day car if that is your interest, but being RWD and with that much power can be 'fun' in some road conditions .

Bags of tuning potential.

The EVO's especially are real classics, in my eyes anyway. Some will say bit too much like a drug dealer mobile, but I say Nahhh

Friend has an E30 M3 (but not an EVO II) and it is one of the most stable cars at speed down Craner's, feels planted whereas Scoobies feel like they are airborne. I guess this is down to the fact the M3 was built then as a touring car, where as Scoobies are supposed to be rally cars. Another friend has just sold his 300bhp+ GTi-R with huge brakes etc. to buy an E30 M3 because of what they are like on track.

I would have one myself if I could A) Afford one and B) wasn't a left-hooker.

Cheers

Ian

EvilBevel

I disagree completely with Ian: I like the fact that they are left hookers

For the rest: I pretty much agree ... a dream car still...

You will find quite a lot of E30 M3 drivers on the Ringers list

47 NAT

Thanxs for the replies guys......

Nath

GaryC

Awesome

On a track day when we drove a Cerbera, 355, 348, superlightR, 993 RS, 968 CS, Espirt V8 amongst others, the M3 was the slowest, but aside from the caterham was the 'best' on the day. So responsive, feedback so direct you couldn't have improved it by holding the front wheels in your hands, massively controllable and 'placeable' even for a novice......just alive

Andrew O'Hara

Nath,

I owned an E30 M3 EVO II for two years, I'm sorry I ever sold it. It was one of the best cars I have owned. Maintenance costs can be expensive especially cam chain replacement eg. £1200+ , but it is worth the experience of ownership. Munich Legends 01825 740456 have some good cars, but they are quite expensive.
Be careful when buying the car, all EVO II's have a lip spoiler on the boot lid together with the raised spoiler on the boot, a deeper front spoiler with no fog lights, as they have brake cooling ducts instead, and the give away is they have a white cam cover with BMW motorsport colours diagonally across.

They are also all numbered as there were only 500 EVO II's, there is an aluminium plaque in front of the gear stick,
xxx/500

They are a fantastic car

Andy.

Jay m A

iTrader: (2)

I was going to import one last year, until I found out I could afford to import a scoob

I've got loads of info/specs on the E30 M3 at the back of a cupboard somewhere, including the Performance Car buying guide. If you can get to the Quays meet on Sunday (see Southern Events) I'll bring it all along. Failing that I can fax/post you a copy

Justin

MattOz

Nath,

Possibly the purest BMW driving machine you can buy. I've had the pleasure of driveing a couple and they never fail to impress. Just asked Harj how he thought the one he was in at the Ring last year went!

If you can find a good one, buy it. Remember the camchain change at 100,000 miles. A car with 102,000 miles with the chain done, is often more expensive than one with 80,000 without the chain work caried out.

If you get one, I'll be jealous!

Matt

MarkCSC

Hi Nat

I'm looking for for one too at the moment. Probably a non-evo 2.3 however.

There is the cam chain which has already been mentioned also the brake discs don't last long.
Engine mods are fairly expensive although you can probably get about 275bhp safely. What I have been told is to uprate the suspension as this will be cheaper and make you go quicker than the engine mods.

Good web site i've found is

MorayMackenzie

IWatkins,

Re: "I would have one myself if I could A) Afford one and B) wasn't a left-hooker."

Don't let you being a left-hooker put you off owning an M3, they are left hand drive to, you know!

IWatkins

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Was thinking of getting one - am still thinking of getting one.

There is a fabulous place in Berkshire that imports M3s from der Motherland and they have some top quality cars. Can remember the name, but near Aldermarston. They are in a barn on a farm.

Remember to get the timing chain done at 100,000 miles - costs a £1,000 but then it won't knacker your engine when it breaks!

R

ROSS

I agree fantastic cars.....in the dry, I drove one on a wet day.....tail is a little twitchy on the limit.. well.. actually quite a lot......oh! all right it scared the cr@p out of me and I span 180 degree going round a roundabout I know well.I now respect M3 drivers who "push on" in the wet and keep well back from them...especially round corners.

LitchfieldImports

As Watto said I've just flogged my 315bhp GTI-R and bought a lovely E30 M3 for 2/3 of the price of my last engine rebuild

Should be more fun, more reliable and by the time Powerstation have finished with the handling it should be faster :>

Moray: next time your down I might let you have a go

Iain

DMB

Hi folks , have to say I agree with everything said here. E30 M3 is one of THE finest race cars ever built...take out the roll cage stuff some trim in and you have the road car

However Matt is right if you are going for higher mileage (cheaper car) make sure the timing chain has been done (engine removal if done correctly ) also there are some ( rare ) RHD conversions that use 325 racks and steering plus different manifolds etc don't be tempted if you see one. Lastly you need deep pockets to run one of these, M parts are manufactured in tiny quantities and thus even the smallest unique component (most of the car IS unique) costs huge money.

That essay over if you can afford it buy it I have seldom driven such a good bm (and that includes all of the new ones )

Oh if you are genuinely interrested a friend of mine might be tempted to part with his (M3 evo 'H' plate 2.5l (not an evo ii though).

I can feel rsi setting in

IWatkins

Litcho,

What about me ? Do I get a go ?

Cheers

Watto.

jean-marc

Just bought one! Not an evo though but what a car. I have a MY99 UK car with AP's, Prodrive etc but when a guy at my gym offered me his black, 148000km, clean 88 M3 for £4000 what could I do? Never had a bimmer before as I think that they are for k**bs (apart from e30 M3's and M5's of course!) but I love this one, it drives like new! I want it for the track really but I need to replace the shocks first, I will probably go for a Trackmeister kit from Munich Legends but it won't be for a while. The problem is the wife didn't want me to buy the car as I do have a perfectly good scoob that I bought new then spent money on so she is right to tell me not to spend our money on a car that is a pure extravagance! I reckon go for it, on the road scoobs are quicker but the track is what the M3 was built for. You will be buying a piece of automotive history, the engines are hand built (none of this washed with the wife but I know you petrol heads will appreciate it) and unlike the scoobs these cars will not appeal to the base ball cap backwards brigade.

Dyney

47 NAT

Awsome car, a freind is selling his, not an Evo II but is imaculate, he's a real BMW freak.
Its a Kreg E30 M3 in Black with Red leather and all the options.previously officialy imported by a BMW dealer(very few were official) for their showroom. Reason he's selling was something to do with deposit, house and morgage.
He's in Wokingham if you want to give him a call 01189 796130 after 7.

Iain.

MarkCSC

Nat
Found an Evo II in excahnge an Mart if you're interested.

Mark

BMW M3 : EVO 2 58/ 500 1989 £8.995 ovno Macuo blue, full leather, 17 azevs deep dish alloys, too many things too list. Tel 07779 660253 (Days), 01932 785082 (Eves).

ptholt

The place Rannoch is talking about i think will be independant motor company. they have a web page (cant remember the url), they import quite a few bits of lhd stuff from Germany, evo's, integrale's etc.

The guy that used to own it is called David (when it was based in Wimbledon).

I bought two cars from them many years ago at Wimbledon, and while friendly enough I would have to think very carefully about buying one from them again.

to be fair the cars i bought were relatively cheap ones 5-6k, but what worried me more was the places they used to send the cars to, to be fixed if they broke, real back street nasty places that were clueless usually resulting in the car coming out no different or worse. Might be better now tho.

I'm surpised no one has mentioned the cost f engine rebiulds and how they seem to be a necessity circa 60-80k miles, a friend in a bike shop has had three, all needed rebiulds and two blew up which was also costly.

matt_d

DO NOT use official BMW dealers - firstly they usually don't know much about the older cars especially the M3 which has a few different bits in it, secondly they are more concerned with selling you new parts than fixing your problem, third their customer service leaves something to be desired. There may be exceptions but I would stay away. There are plenty of specialist garages around which know more about the cars, charge less and are more enthusiast minded.

The guy I bought mine from swore by an M3 specialist in York, but that's a bit far away from you. I don't know Reading but there is a BMW specialist garage in High Wycombe called TCS - the garage is in a bit of a run down area but I recently had a minor problem with the car which needed immediate attention (engine cooling fan wouldn't switch off) and they sorted it out immediately, when the local BMW dealer said I'd have to wait a week and the AA man I called out who supposedly knew BMWs couldn't find what was wrong (turned out to just be a fuse).

If you get one you can join the BMW M Power club of Great Britain and get in touch with other owners who will know the best specialists in your area - the M Power club also includes the McLaren F1 (BMW V12 remember) which apparently comes along once every couple of years! Finally, take a look at

matt_d

I bought an Evo II in the autumn and have done about 5000 miles in it, and I'd just second the comments that have been made so far. Great handling, full of character, the steering gives great feedback (makes the Impreza feel numb) and is very precise too - you'll find yourself trying to apex every corner even in 30 zones. Although the engine is only a 4-pot, it's nice and responsive, loves being driven hard and really comes alive above 4000rpm. Performance isn't Impreza-like but still good by today's standards, 0-100 in under 18s for the Evo versions, and top speed just over 150mph. Don't let the LHD drive bother you - I was worried about it at first but apart from making you take a bit more care overtaking (which is probably a good thing) I haven't found it a problem. The cars have the typical BMW reliability and seem to last for ages if looked after properly. Fuel economy is reasonable, around 35mpg cruising although if you press on it will drop to the low 20s.

Make sure it is a genuine Evo II - as Andrew says they have a numbered plaque in front of the gearstick (it says xxx/500 but there were actually 501 made). Also you want to avoid ones that haven't been looked after. When the owner takes you out for a test drive, they should let the car warm up, keeping below 4000rpm (preferably below 3k) until the temperature gauge reaches 75 degrees. Also when they start the car, if they wait 10-15 seconds before moving off (to let the oil work through the engine) that's a good sign too. The guy I bought mine from knew all about the history of the car, the differences between the Evo, Evo II, Sport Evolution etc, so I felt happy buying from him, but some of the E30 M3s have been owned by people who probably traded up from a M-badged 318 and don't look after the cars.

Downsides: the cam chain needs replacing at around 100k, which is around £1500. It's an M car so maintenance is more than normal BMWs. The central locking system is prone to malfunction (cheap and easy to fix though). The brakes are the car's weak point - I've had my brake pads smouldering on a long drive in N Wales (admittedly was pushing quite hard), so if you are going to do regular track work I'd consider uprating them.

Quite a few of them have been modified. Personally I'd stick as close to stock as possible. Exhausts, chips & minor mods are ok, but once people start fiddling with the suspension, wheels, engine etc the chances are they will bugger up the car. BMW developed the M3 from their successful touring car so is Joe Bloggs' aftermarket firm really going to improve on the handling? I bought mine with 17" wheels/SO2s fitted and they don't suit the car - they tramline under hard braking. BMW recommend 15" or 16" wheels and the latter are what I'd go for, so either make sure you get the original wheels with the car, or make the seller deduct the cost of you buying them from the price.

Lastly, the old M3 is pretty good for going sideways, but it does not snap out unexpectedly and if you treat it with respect it shouldn't cause any problems. The steering is quite slow at 3 1/2 turns lock to lock, so it can be tricky to catch a slide if you are not expecting it, but as long as you don't expect it to drive like a Scoob you should be ok.

To give you an idea of price, the car I got was £6,800, with 92k on the clock and the chain already replaced, but that was a bit cheap. Expect to pay around £8k for a decent Evo II or up to £10k for a low mileage mint example. If you want to save some cash, the standard E30 M3 can be had for £4-5k but not all will be in decent nick.

In conclusion, I'd say go for it - it's a classic car and should hold its value from now on, as well as providing great driving thrills on the road or track.

47 NAT

WOW, well what can I say?

Apart from "A BIG THANXS" to all that have replied (and the e-mails too)!!!

The Information and feed-back that all you guys have given is great......to say the least.....

Though the one thing does concern me is.......Are they that bad on parts/service supply and to sort out when/if they go wrong???? Is it main dealer work?

Nath

PS: My current car has speed, etc, etc, though in less than 12 months of ownership I've literally thrown my wallet at it several times so hence the question......

Mike Rainbird

Nat,
If you get one, you MUST promise to let me have a drive (pretty please ). They are one of my favourite cars and I have unfourtunately only been in the "base" model, but even that was a joy to behold.

With adjustability (oversteer / understeer
at will) on par with a go-kart, the chassis is a peach. The engine is a work of art (it is smoother at 7000 than a Cossie is at idle ) and the power delivery, despite having no big kick up the butt is seamless and easy to live with.

BUT if you think they are any cheaper to run than a Cossie, then think again! You probably won't think anything much of cost of owning one if it is just for a short time, as the are usually very reliable. However, most people seem to get hooked on them and keep them for a VERY long time. This is when (because you haven't "passed the buck") ownership becomes expensive (like a Cossie ). A mate spent £6k on a rebuild of the engine alone, as he has had it for seven years and didn't want to sell it, so when the engine went he had it done. This car is used for regular track days though (you might know it, it is owned by Tony Parament (sp?) who is affiliated with "On-track" and is a development driver for Lotus).

Anyway, basically I have always promised myself a Sport Evolution (Evo III) model when funds allow (red please ). Currently they still fetch over £15k for good ones...
Regards
Mike R

Neil F

A friend of mine has one of these and he asked me to post this reply (having read this thread) as he's too lazy to set up a username and logon for himself.
He also said that he'd rather have my STi any day as it's awesome compared to his little M3.........

Neil.

The website to check is

47 NAT

Neil, thanxs for the reply. I'll be looking at the Evo 11 on the weekend and I've now got it in my head that I want one !!!

A big thanxs to all who have given me advice/tips, at least I know a bit more about them now....Though the only query I've got is that most cars will have say a cam belt done through time or mileage, is this the same with the M3's, or is it just through mileage?

Mike, No probs m8 as long as you dont kill it !!! (Do you want a Cossy for spares )

Nath



[This message has been edited by 47 NAT (edited 08 March 2001).]

Neil F

My learned friends reply to your last question (his name is Mark buy the way or "Spaz" to his friends).........

Neil.

-------------------------------------------

M3's don't have cam belt's, only a huge cam chain, it only needs
replacement at 100,000 miles (not Km as most cars will be imports) it
needs doing to save your engine going bang, and spending 4-6 grand
rebuilding it. If you buy a car close to 100K miles, it will cost you
around £1500 to get this done, if you buy a car over 100K miles, you
MUST check its been done, if not, you are risking an expensive re-build.
hence many M3's for sale are very close to the 100K miles mark. Dont be
put off by high mileage over 100K miles, as long as the service history
is good.
One last thing, the engines sound like sh*t, mainly thanks to the cam
chain, all M3's are the same, dont worry. sometimes on startup they
sound like deisels for a minute or 2, this is because the cam chain
tensioner is hydraulic, and bleeds down sometimes and relies only on oil
splashed onto it to pump up. Again, all M3's do it, its normal, just a
bit embarassing when your mean machine sounds fu**ed in a car park.
There is a useful FAQ at this address:

47 NAT

Neil, can you pass my thanks on to your friend? The link made good reading and is saved too !

I'll let you know how I get on.....

Nath