Trout

iTrader: (1)

Head to head in evo this month (big fans of the Scoob in the past)...

"The Ford has a dynamic acuity completely missing from the Subaru"

Subaru - 3.5 stars

Ford Rs - 5.0 stars

Oh dear!

chrisdicko

iTrader: (21)

I'd go for the RS over the Impreza! I love the looks of the new RS.

Cd09

Dear oh dear.

Its still FWD though, how do they do it!

jef

iTrader: (13)

has to be said the ford looks the nuts

the scoob.....not so much

imo.

juggers

iTrader: (1)

Thats just stupid 3.5 you got to give it more credit then that. the price difference is also 20k it's a stupid comparison.

Immy

Off Your Marks

iTrader: (3)

That comment was valid maybe 10 years ago. Subaru haven’t moved dynamically forward - its still the same stuff. Others have with adaptive damping and the revo knuckle on FWD, plus clever electronics and torque vectoring

FWD can be ever so good these days. I was lucky enough to buy a new R26.R last year and believe me that thing can out handle most cars. The only advantage that 4wd has is better grip - that’s different to handling.

Unfortunately Subaru needs a damn good shake up.

Don’t get me wrong I love my new age scoob wagon but not for its dynamics I’m afraid. More for its quirky looks and noise
I have just bought a Fiat 100hp too and in the real world on the twisties it will keep a standard Impreza honest!

Megaman

iTrader: (4)

Dont be fooled, ive been on runs with my old focus ST car club in the yorkshire dales, and the new focus RS, modified or standard would still be torque steering in the dry and losing traction on wet roads where as the scoob feels a lot more planted. Glad i got rid of my 330 bhp focus st for my WR1 as I have found I can use the power every day vs only on dry days with the focus. The RS would however be the best car to live with, far comfier and smoother for longer journeys

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Why is it a stupid comparison?

It is a comparison of two cars that both cost around £22-24k in standard form. Both are special editions.

Maybe 3.5 is generous as for £50k for a performance car you have the right to expect a very good if not excellent car.

As for your judgement - have you driven one?

mantazini

iTrader: (25)

Top gear hill climb RS 500 lap time 1.07.16

http://www.topgear.com/uk/videos/sti...rd-focus-rs500

STI Cosworth time 1.05.51

http://www.topgear.com/uk/videos/sti...preza-cosworth

juggers

iTrader: (1)

The cars aint in standard form and the cosworth does'nt cost 29k. No i have'nt driven one ,but i cant see the focus rs being better then the cosworth. In terms of cost it might be but i doubt it in terms of performance.

Immy

tathan

Evo are snobs/purists (depending on which side you're on) who eschew performance in favour of handling and feel though. So, if they like it, fair enough. I'm playstation generation instant gratification fastfood alcopop, so I prefer the faster car, regardless of how dull or uninvolving they find it

Trout

iTrader: (1)

So you are guessing then

For reference the Ford is £35,750 so not exactly bargain basement.

Subaru is £49,995 and for that money you are competing with some very serious machinery.

In terms of performance the Subaru has two massive issues. Heat soak was significantly retarding ignition - so if you push on then the car the performance just doesn't hold up. Maybe this will be fixed in production, maybe not. Secondly it suffers badly from turbo lag and the boost does not come on until just shy of 4000rpm.

On the Vbox you can clearly see gaps in acceleration where it loses boost.

Something that can make a car less pleasant and less smooth to drive.

Also the best 0-60 time was 4.6s, not the claimed 3.7s. The more realistic 0-100 time 10.7s - quick - but so it should be for £50k.

In lap times the Scoob was 1s quicker on the West Circuit.

So yes - it does have more performance - but is it worth double a normal Scoob, or the £14k over one of its natural rivals...


...that would seem to be open to question.


From my perspective you could build a brand new STi into a quicker car for less money than the Ford costs. So the badge premium for Cosworth would seem to be VERY high.

juggers

iTrader: (1)

You've driven both then i take it?

I agree with you....yes i would rather buy a JDM sti and slap nd go down the tunning route as you would end up with a much better car.

Immy

bigsinky

pffttttt.................. not that quick

T5NYW

iTrader: (4)

That's quite disappointing this over assistance on low to medium speeds has been known about ever since the Hatch came out Surely this woud have been tackled by who ever did the handling mods

Yet the Hatch Chassis feels better when tightened up than my Hawkeye. But I much prefere the Steering Feedback I get from my Hawkeye.

Litcho's mod to pressure relief, Geo settings and uprated Bushes etc does transform the UK Hatch handling. Yet same mods and does feel better on the JDM possibly due the higher ratio Steering Rack .

Could they not fit the "Old" hawkeye Steering Rack or whole system to the Hatch?
I'm sorry to say If they had compared on a high speed Track instead of the Sprint that the Focus would have matched or possibly beaten the Scoob

IMHO

Tony

Trout

iTrader: (1)

The review in full does not make good reading if you have your deposit down for a Cossie.

Of course this is only someone else's opinion - however the description of dynamic flaws is quite a concern! If nothing else the Cossie is not meeting it's own stated dynamic objectives in terms of performance, never mind the subjective experience!

jh1

top gear mag reviews these cars. subaru cosworth is the quickest car but suffers lag just like the 400 bhp evo did. subaru did a time of 1min 5.51 . focus rs 500 did a time of 1min 6.56 so just over a second but considering the subaru is 2 second,s quicker off the line to 60.. i think the rs focus looks better too

Alan Jeffery

FWD always shows its true colours eventually, and on the sort of roads I drive on every day I can't stick it. Don't give me traction control, give me traction.

Dspeed

I preferred it when ford was a swear word on here.

Norman Dog

iTrader: (1)

I'd put money on it most on here have owned a fast Ford at one time or another..

Frosticles

iTrader: (1)

Oh yes, (and still do)

VinceW

Mountune do an upgrade kit for the Focus RS, takes it up to 350bhp (same engine spec as the RS500) for £2K, and you still keep your Ford warranty! Makes the CS400 price tag of £50K even less appealing!

Alan Jeffery

Mk 1 GT Cortina
Mk 1 Escort 2 litre Pinto
3 litre Capri
XR4x4
XR4x4 Turbo Technics Estate
XR4i Turbo Technics (Fast Ford feature car)
XR4x4 Twin Turbo Technics (Fast Ford feature car)
Shared 3 door Cosworth track day car. (Fast Ford feature car)

FWD? not me Guv..

IainMilford

iTrader: (15)

dont forget they're only making 75 scoobs is another reason you're paying £50k for it

scooby L

Only 100 RS500's allocated for the UK market isn't there?

stanmo

iTrader: (1)

Would a twin-scroll set up have helped with the lag ?
If it's converted from a UK car, would this retain the single scroll exhaust, turbo, etc ?

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

A 2.5ltr twin scroll would be fantastic but they dont want to upset potential buyers because they lost the "burble" so instead you get a drivability issue

Tony

belliott69

iTrader: (3)

all the people who complain about lag can't really drive, your in the wrong gear if you have lag. its not undriveable but you have to drive it like it was made for, grab it by the scruff of the neck and give it some, its not a micra for ****s sake.

PhilA

I think it's only fair to say you can't judge em unless you have actually driven them.

So according to people on here Subaru's can be used 100% in the wet - well none of mine have been this way. More usable than most cars on the road I agree, but in the wet around corners/roundabouts care is still needed.

RS - Torque steer, lack of traction? I'm guessing most people haven't driven one have you?
Torque steer? yes but minor, and I mean minor. Only when using brutle force with the go pedal and only on uneven/damaged roads. It's actually part of the cars charm and excitement. At least you can feel what the wheels are doing.
Lack of traction? (In the wet?) Certainly not that I've noticed. I can push the RS in the wet as much as I would dare push an impreza in the wet anyway.

Turbo lag - I agree they must just not have changed down a cog, which most people would do?

Is the cosworth the better car? Most likely, but considering money then no. You could build a better hatch and have 20K left to spare.
Or have £50K to spend on something much more exotic?

BULLITT

It's the cost that's the Cosworth's problem, for the money, you would expect a much better car, especially when enthusiasts know you can build a equal or better for much much less, take the Litchfield version for example.

On a comparative note, the 22B was £45,000 12 years ago - built by STI, not an independent company and the UK only got 16 cars officially yet I don't remember seeing a single bad review/comparison about it...

It's the value for money that's the issue with the Impreza, if it was £10k cheaper then it would be an awesome car all round, but when has Cosworth ever been known to be good value tuners...