Norman Dog

iTrader: (1)

Just a quick question.
Went to view a Focus ST midweek, it was modified to around 300BHP, fitted with all supporting mods and an 8 pot brake upgrade, looked and drove brilliantly.

When the time came to seal the deal I noticed the service records from the previous owner were not from a main dealer, not even a stamp from the supplying dealer and the servicing had only been stamped in the book every 2 years.

Personally, my car is main dealer serviced for the first 3years then serviced anually at http://asperformance.com/. I also have every reciept for everthing that has ever been done to the car while I've owned it.

The car I viewed had a lot of money spent on it and had obviously been cared for by its present owner who was a really decent guy, the thing that was worrying me is that with no main dealer service record for the first 3 years there is no way of verifying the mileage is correct. The guy offered me a good part ex deal on my car and was agreeable to any mechanical inspection. He also said he would give me the contact details of the previous owner, as the car had around £4k of mods fitted he didn't think the previous owner was likely to have scrimped on the servicing.

Just wondering what anyones thoughts on this are, my heart says buy the car but my head says don't.

Gigsy

Personally, I have bought cars with patchy history and they've all needed TLC of some kind but in each case, I've negotiated the price down to cover my risk.

I certainly wouldn't pay anywhere near sticker price if the service history is iffy... from what you describe, I'd want a big discount. Not only is it a bit of a gamble in terms of stuff going wrong but it'll also make it more difficult to sell down the line.

If the seller won't play ball with a hefty discount, then walk away. Ford sell a tonne of STs so it won't take long for another that fits the bill to come along.

Norman Dog

iTrader: (1)

That's exactly what I was thinking, anyone buying the car from me in the future is going to be asking the very same thing.

brendy76

iTrader: (6)

Recent history and any major services would be more important to me.
Who cares if the oil has been changed twice or ten times, as Long as it gas been done frequently recently and the car drives well then I don't see a problem.

Fleetwood

Bought a car a while back with patchy history (the owner even admitted missing a service interval). Got a very good price but paid back that discount over the next two years over faults that occured. These could have happended even with service history, I'll never know.
Bought my current car with only japanese service stickers and a 'I change the oil regularly mate' (yeah right) but as the mileage was very low they hadn't actually used it much since import I took the gamble (plus it had really cool wheels!).
So far.....
So good. So from my micro survey
High mileage and missing a few service intervals from mileage then beware
Low mileage and missed time rather than mileage intervals then take the punt (but get a discount)
Life is boring without gambles! (does it have cool wheels?)

Al

The Rig

iTrader: (13)

Use your eyes

engines can take alot more wear/tear these days, if you have a stamp or receipt at say 8k then at 20k its not the end of the world is it

service stamps mean squat anyway, i know people who buy service books stamped with history and just fill in the reg of the car but no main dealer name on it etc etc

if it looks good/discs are good, engine sounds good,knock off a good chunk or negotiate etc and give it a good service

if it were a £60k+ car then fair do`s, but anything below £6-7k

suppose it depends if your mechanically minded or totally rely on a stamp in the book to put your mind at ease

sookx1

when i got my scooby it had full service history and all paper work of what had been done to it. ive just had the car a year now and four months after buying it had head gasket go, seven months later had the clutch go. in total first year of owning it ive spent over £2000 on it in up keep. so personally i think service history does'nt really mean alot.

i have to say its been the best £2000 ive ever spent as i love my car

Vesuvio

I got mine with full subaru main dealer history and just to keep its record clean I intend on keeping it that way (even if it means I'll most likely pay a bit more for nothing but added resell value).

Just personel preference I suppose.

JohnD

iTrader: (5)

All general service items are carried out by myself so I know they've been done properly with the best fluids and following the generally accepted correct procedures instead of paying ludicrous money for doubtful tecniques by mechanics who aren't really interested.
It would be hypocritical of me to dismiss a car because of lack of stamps in a book. I reckon I can judge if a car's been looked after by inspection and discussion with the owner.
If you buy the car from a dealer don't forget - it's easy to retrospectively put stamps in the book!

JohnD

prestigesec

I dont see how you can say because it hasnt been serviced by main dealer you cant verify the mileage???

Even if it was serviced by main dealer whats to say it hasnt been wound back just before it goes in for service and MOT?

Its not hard to make the car read that its only doing 12,000 a year when really its doing 20,000 if its done at the right time all the paper work and service history will make it look genuine when really its not.

Look more at the steering wheel and pedals for wear, this will give you a better idea on mileage.

pslewis

Service Histories 'disappear' to hide true mileages!

Norman Dog

iTrader: (1)

True, a car could have done 40k miles in the first year of ownwership and had the milometer reset by one of those peeps in the autotrader.

Just gives you that little bit more confidence if it has the dealer stamp, while in the warranty period.

pslewis

History .... via. invoices, old MOT's, service sheets, etc. gives you confidence in the claimed mileage.

If you wish to buy the car without history (any car) - then treat the mileage as suspect everytime.

Mikkel

I wouldn't be overly concerned about dealer stamps on a sub £15k car but I would expect a full history of receipts on any non-standard car. Especially one that is supposed to be enthusiast owned. Enthusiasts know to keep receipts even if they are capable of doing the labour parts themselves.

Steve777

iTrader: (8)

I've just bought a Type R from Japan. Only had two service sheets with it (In japanese) and the car is pretty good. So i'm building my own service history up. Car runs fine

djwrx

well i bought an astra 2.2 xreg...very nice car...clean etc and cheap but no history whatsover.had 2 months warranty and month after i noticed it was burning a lot of oil...did a oil change.fully synthetic and within a month it had virtualy burnt dry.took too friends garage who said the pistons rings have been worn due too neglect.was told when i bought it had cam chain and they dont need changing ever.took too a top vauxhalll guy who is a vauxhall forum.she stripped down in front of me and said the chain had almost snaped due too lack of oil gettin to it.there were bits of the chain guide floating around inside it.and the aircon ran dry...re gassed 3 times and found had leak.was advised sell the car.so chopped in for the wrx and best move made.you dont know what lies beneath the shiny bits.sometimes we let out heart rule what we buy.it looks spangly and shiny and it wow it must be ok.i wouldnt make mistake twice.my wrx had full service history and i take too subaru too get serviced

Off Your Marks

iTrader: (3)

To me its got two bad points - No correct SH from main dealer and it has been modified.

People modify cars to be able to drive faster and harder. So, the cars has been ragged and no proper history. Forget it!

Buy a low milage standard one with a good history and forget the modified tat.

johnfelstead

Some people modify cars to make them a better car, not to rag them to death. That's certainly the case with me and mine.

My current MY05 JDM STi is mildly modified, runs circa 370BHP and hasnt missed a beat since i bought it. It's done two rounds of scoobysprint in 09, quickest standard class car both times, it's my daily driver. I bought the car in Feb 2009 with 28K on the clock, now has 41K on it, not a single dealer stamp in sight as i do the service and mod work myself or with competent specialists, but i keep my own log of work done on the car and keep all the receipts.

I always modify my cars when i buy them, i make them a better car than Subaru can do in the legislation they are shackled by, so to suggest that all modified cars should be fogotten about is a nonsense aproach, you must with any car look at the merits of what you may be buying.

Even cars that are used on track heavily if correctly serviced and modified to suit are not a problem, proof is my STi5 Type RA that did thousands of miles on track, i sold that 8 years ago now, it's still going strong at 135K miles on the same engine i built for it at 40K.

Getting back to the OP, you have to take each car on it's merits, some cars dont always have service history for various reasons, what you need to understand is if the story is a plausible one that makes sense, if you have a doubt and your gut feeling is the story doesnt add up, then it's best to walk away.

pslewis

I don't accept this - it may apply if you added leather seats, fitted a sunroof, added air con, tinted the windows ....... but, the second you talk about increased BHP then the mods are simply to do with extracting more power and speed .... therefore it gets ragged and thrashed!!

If you just wanted a 'better' car you would have bought what you wanted!! Nah, you want to go faster .....

That's why a modified car is risky, too risky .... without history it is madness ....

johnfelstead

Sure Pete, like you know what you are talking about when it comes to the mechanicals of a performance car.

pslewis

In the context of this thread I know that when a car is modified and increased in power, the owner is not interested in anything but going faster!!

And I know plenty about engines, mechanics and electronics .....

johnfelstead

You dont know anything of the sort Pete, you assume as much. You also know very little about performance engineering based on your history on here.

My own car is much nicer to drive now it's got the torque spread it has, it's much easier to drive point to point and you certainly rev it a lot less for the same road performance.

pslewis

Subaru made your car, you bought it ..... then, amazingly, changed it - why not buy what you wanted in the first place??

When it comes to choosing cars to own and drive you seem to have got it wrong .... I, on the other hand, bought exactly what I wanted!!

I would say, on that basis, I know more about cars than you!!

I'm not a hobbyist, I get paid handsomely for my Engineering knowledge ..

johnfelstead

Nobody sells the car i wanted, hence why i bought a good base car then modified it to suit my needs, it's not rocket science peter.

Sorry this thread is being taken OT, so i'll leave pete to his fantasy world now and let the thread hopefully continue with some useful input from others.

pslewis

Nobody sells the car you wanted?

Fussy beggar, aren't you?

I agree we are off topic - I will also step away and watch for some useful input.

But, my opinion remains that a documented history is vital .... certainly for modded tat.

Dave_P

i like properly modified cars, but when I am buying or selling I prefer a FSH. It does not have to be a main dealer stamp, but all the required services should and must be properly documented. This not only proves the mileage but means that it has been looked after, expensive mods do not always mean a car has been properly maintained...

My advice would be if you have any doubts walk away, there are plenty of decent ST's out there...and like you said, if you are worried, so might the next buyer be when you come to sell it, any car over £10K is a big investment mate

Hope this helps

Ricerocket0_1

Don't agree......cant sell my Type-R because not modified enough
Subaru boy's seem to want modified ones due to the expence to do so.
Mine is virtually unmodified with full service history and I can't sell

On the service history issue, I would never use main dealers, to costly

Norman Dog

iTrader: (1)

My cars been modified, reason being the mid range torque was rubbish when standard, it has also wanted for nothing in terms of servicing and repairs.
Just because a car’s been modified doesn't necessarily mean it's been ragged from cold, clutch dumped at every green light etc.

Even when standard, people buy Subaru Imprezas and most performance cars to drive fast. Otherwise we would all own 1.8L Mondeos and the like.

I would have no problems at all buying a modified car as long as it has a fully documented service history and passed a full mechanical inspection.

How many on here drive a totally standard car?