dsemuk

Only my second post here.

Earlier in the week I arranged a test drive for this weekend of a new WRX hatch.

Having driven diesels for the last 15 years, my daily commute is a mere six miles each way, so I am thinking it is time to go back to petrol power.

Today I rang my insurance company to enquire about the WRX and was pleasantly surprised at the cost so I also enquired about a new STI 330S hatch and I was even more surprised! The only good thing about getting old is that insurance premiums get more reasonable.

I've not even considered the STI, whilst fuel, road tax and insurance are clear what other running costs would I be looking at servicing, brakes, tyres and ???

Realistically are the running costs of the STI & WRX very different?

Looking forward to your comments.

VinceW

Tyres on a standard 17" rim are a lot cheeper than the 18" options, so it depends which wheels you have. (just paid £120 each for 245/40 18 tyres as I got a good deal on a set of wheels on ebay, 235/45 17's of the same make would have cost £80 each) Cam belt change is a big service but doesn't have to be done until 70K miles on the sti, 7 years. Brakes are bigger on the sti so I guess pads will be more expensive but will last longer unless you are the last of the late brakers! Service intervals are 10k miles for the STI or every 12 months so this shouldn't break the bank! In my opinion the STI is the better car, I walked past the wrx in the dealer as i thought it was the basic RX car! My STI gets about 27mpg motorway/a road normal driving in normal traffic in i mode, done 6k miles so far with no issues in 6 months. I imagine parts will be expensive if required when out of warranty but I have always found this with Subaru, but have needed very few except service items.

73henny

I don't think the 330s is available now. But an STi with the free Prodrive pack is available and has the same power. I've just traded my STi hatch in after 15k faultless miles for a new Legacy (only reason for changing is I need more room for the kids). In the 20mths I had it I only paid for 1 service. The tyres were good for another 5k. I got 27mpg but the 330 will get about 24. It depends on how long you intend to keep it for?

dsemuk

Thanks for sharing your thoughts.

I asked for insurance quote for the 330S as I thought that would be the most expensive standard hatch to insure, giving me a worst case scenario.

I prefer the multispoke 17" STI rims to the 18" 5 spoke jobies, although I think all new STIs are only available with the 5 spoke 18".

Surprised the cam belt doesn't need changing until 70k, thats a pleasant surprise.

STI with bigger brakes, six speed box, etc does sound preferable, I intend to hold onto the car for about 5 years, unless my circumstances change. I would look for additional warranty to run on from when manufacturers warranty runs out.

Cannot wait for Saturday to test the WRX, then to find an STI, the closest dealer only has a WRX demo.

urban

iTrader: (1)

I have a 330S, traded an MY05 STI in against it a fwe months ago.
For comparison, the 330S being brand new(and exclusive) and worth 20K more than the 5 year old version only cost me £19 more to insure.

The 330S appears to be more economical than the MY05STI
Its certainly a lot nicer too

Personally if I was in your shoes and could afford the extra then I'd go for an STI.
Its a far better car

dsemuk

Well my bank holiday weekend is planned out, Saturday test drive WRX hatch, Saturday weather forecast is for substantial rain, should be run!

Monday I m travelling to another dealer to try an STI hatch, fortunately the weather forecast for monday is dry.

Couldn't find a dealer within a reasonable distance with both WRX & STI available.

Subaru UK now only have silver STIs in stock, the colour would have been my last choice after having driven a silver car for almost seven years.

I've told Mrs I need £19k for a WRX, how do I break the news to her that I now need £27k for an STI? Ah its only money! Besides I've told her with the SI-drive on the STI she can turn it into an everyday shopping car.

VinceW

As the 18" inch wheels are a dealer fit option on the STI you should be able to get the 17" inch wheels with tyres that came off of the car from the dealer. I'd also go for the fog lights as this tidies the front of the car up. Make sure you also get the 18's and tyres as these are worth lots of money.

I have seen sets of wheels and tyres on e-bay taken off cars with delivery mileage for give away money recently. If you can't get the wheels off of the dealer and really want the 10 spoke 17" I have the set of 17" inch wheels that I took off my car after 500 miles in mint condition. I also have a set of 17" compomotives complete with tyres that are also mint. I really wanted the 18" high lustre wheels when I bought my STI but wasn't prepaired to pay Subaru £270 per wheel and £20 for a centre cap! I found a set of mint 18' on ebay at a reasonable price, this was after buying the compomotives of course!!

VinceW

I guess the remaining STI's in other colours are being converted to cosworths! I think the cosworth is not available in silver!

pslewis

I would advise extreme caution on taking the 'free' upgrade!!

You can instead opt for around £2000 Off instead!

Why would you not want it? Well, ask for Insurance quotes for a modified car (as that is what you will have) they will go through the roof!! For example, I asked for quotes on a WRX-S .... 50 odd quotes of £300 average came back, fair enough. Then I asked for the price when I had a WRX and the upgrade (essentially the same as the WRX-S) and I had 2 quotes of around £350 - 1 of £1850 and NOONE else would quote!!!

Also, feel the plastics - twiggle with the heater controls, look at the plastic trim in the hatch ... feel it and I challenge you to tell me it's acceptable in 2010!

VinceW

Ok the interior plastics could be better, find me another car that has 300bhp with or without 4 wheel drive for that money, as you say £2K off, means £25k for 300bhp. The heater controls on my sti are fine, a lot better than my focus st. In fairness the focus dash was better. Swings and round abouts between the 2 and they both are for roughly the same money (focus rs)

73henny

Once again lewis you completely miss the point. Go find another 4wd car as powerfull or anywhere near as quick as a STi and see what it costs. Think 30k+ for a slower golf or S3. Nowhere can you get more performance per pound. End of.

pslewis

Don't get me wrong .... the Impreza is fast - it's got AWD - it's great to drive - it's great value if all you want is AWD power.

People want more these days, like tactile plastics, sensible Road Tax, more than 22mpg.

It's a sign of the times and I am saddened to see it - but, a new Impreza just doesn't stack up these days

VinceW

Therefore you have bought a civic diesel, not a 300bhp 4 wheel drive car for £27K. The road tax is not the fault of Subaru, agreed interior could be better but has the civic got fully automatic air con, 6 cd mp3 10 speaker stereo, half leather, cruise control, xenon lights....the list goes on. You have bought a totally different car from the Impreza STI/wrx. perhaps you should have been looking at the Legacy or Forester?

dsemuk

Many many years ago (mid 1980s) I travelled with a friend from Sheffield to Hudderfield in an old Subaru 1800 estate, along the A616 from Stocksbridge to Huddersfield we followed a then almost new Ford Sierra Cosworth, on the long straightish uphill sections the Sierra pulled away, on the twist sections I was amazed that my mate could peddle the Subaru quick enough to to keep a respectable distance behind. This was way before Subaru entered WRC. Ever since that time I have respected Subaru AWD vehicles.

Tomorrow I am expecting to see plastics similar in quality to wheelie bins, yes Audi quality materials would be nice but an Audi offering similar performance would cost a fortune.

pslewis

Legacy and Forester suffer horrific depreciation.

I am a Subaru man .... I want to buy Subaru .... the head says no.

The WRX Impreza delivers - 320 Nm of Torque ... the Civic delivers 340 Nm - the Civic has more pulling power. You cannot argue against the numbers.

The WRX costs £435 a year in Road Tax and does 25 mpg .... the Civic costs £110 a year Road Tax and does 55 mpg - yet is more powerful

The WRX costs £19,405 OTR and I couldn't get any discounts .... the Civic lists at £19,600 but I hammered a decent deal. The equipment levels are far higher in the Civic - the panoramic electric sunroof is a nice touch, for example.

pslewis

Tell you what ..... just take a peek at the black plastic under the rear bumper - touch it and pull it a little, remind you of anything?

I'll give you a clue ... go and buy a 99p seed tray from the Garden Centre ... feels exactly the same, doesn't it?

Tug a little at the plastic under the hatch close area - cheap, cheap, cheap - my old classic is far from being of the highest quality, but it's better than the latest offering.

I take no pleasure at all in admitting that the Subaru Impreza lags way behind these days - and that's why they are not selling any

VinceW

Pete, I am very pleased you have the car you want. I believe in getting value for money and had to think very hard about paying £430 for road tax. In the end I went for it as you are a long time dead and you might as well enjoy it whilst you are alive! As for the torque figures, yes the torque is high, although you will not be able to deliver it through the front wheels. The Subaru will paste the civic off of the line and most probably out of the corners. The wrx looks very dull in comparison to the STI, but the price difference makes it very tempting. I'm sure the Honda will be a nice car but I think the Subaru would put a bigger smile on your face!

pslewis

You may well be right ....

I have to say the Civic put a smile on my face .... it's just a great cabin to be in. I also think the Civic Type S looks great ( a CTR lookalike with a better engine ).

I shall always remember with fondness the AWD Impreza and the way it powers out of roundabouts .... but, the Civic certainly is no slouch.

The biggest smiles will come when I buy my Car Tax, when I fill up the tank once a month rather than once a week, when I polish those great curves and lines, when I feel the sun through the panoramic sunroof ...... I shall still admire the Scooby as it passes me, and I shall remember those halcion days I spent in my Impreza - days that have long gone ......

urban

iTrader: (1)

FFS Pete
Just go and buy your civic

73henny

Funny after all your investigative work, 1 minute on the net you can find this;
What Car? says

3 out of 5 stars

lazadude

iTrader: (1)

CS400's are all in Grey, Red or Silver haha, and with only 75 being made, doubt it'd affect standing stocks.

pslewis

That's rather selective of you .....

This is what I've found:-

Type S is the best car here by a country mile
There's a large gulf between the winner and the two runners-up. The Civic Type S is the best car here by a country mile..... The Civic is aimed at sporty owners, and we think it hits the nail on the head.

Auto Express October 2006

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From slick gear change to the sharp steering
Everything from the slick gear change to the sharp steering encourages you to enjoy your drive, exploring the further reaches of the car's abilities far more then you would in, say a VW Golf

The Daily Express October 2006

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The Civic Type-S is one of the best cars in its class. Revised suspension gives the three-door more bite

As you'd expect, the Civic Type-S oozes engineering integrity. The six-speed gearbox has a light, accurate shift, while the clutch, brakes and throttle actions are all spot-on. Moreover, as we've said many times before, the 2.2 i-CTDi diesel engine is fantastic. It's free-revving, impressively refined and punchy. Against the clock, the Civic is potent - but it serves up its power in a smooth, commendable way, too. It remains our favourite diesel in this class

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carrevi...vic_types.html

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The superb Honda Civic makes all its rivals feel mundane.

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The real testing is in the trying for yourself - for me, it's the best thing out there at the moment.

dsemuk

Just got back from test drive in standard WRX.

Plastics, I was expecting it to be really bad, generally not as bad as I expected following comments on here. About the same as our 05 plate Ford Fiesta, ok not great but acceptable. Main thing is everything appears to be fastened together properly. We have two greyhounds so height of boot to roof distance may be an issue, the larger of our dogs has banged his back jumping into our current hatchback. I liked the fact that to put the back seats flat I didn’t need to lift the seat cushions first.

Seats and driving position are fine, gear change is a little sloppier than I am used to, sure I could get used to it.

As for driving, well the rain was pouring and I was driving around typical Lincolnshire wolds bendy up and down roads, roads with poor surfaces, mud and grit etc. The car was running on Yokohama 205/50x17". The car suspension was compliant but the car stuck to the road even when going in to corners a bit fast, potholes and broken road surfaces simply got got absorbed, powering through corners is good fun, in a FWD car I would have been scrabbling for grip, not in this car. The car gave a comfortable ride, gripped the wet road but didn’t shake my teeth fillings out.

Didn't really push the brakes hard but they felt fine, steering is a little bit vague in the straight ahead position, but seems OK once I started turning.

Mrs was looking a little seasick in the back so I had a steady drive back to the dealership through town. Whilst I had been pushing on the salesman didn't flinch, he obviously knows the car can handle it.

Interesting to see how the WRX-S compares on 225/40x18" tyres, maybe the 205/50 are better on this type of road? Would it bang and crash a lot more on poor surfaces.

Drove about 20 miles, in ideal conditions to test the AWD performance.

Certainly a car I could easily live with.

On Monday I head out to try an STI

pslewis

Make sure you measure that height between the boot floor and the roof - it's 60cms!!

That is way too small a gap for a decent sized dog .... my Wagon is 80cms - the Civic is over 80cms.

It really is bad if you have a dog .... you have two!

The WRX STi is brilliant - didn't seem much faster than the WRX-S I took out ..... certainly not £8,000 more! But, it looks better with the flared arches.

You really need to try a decent diesel too - you will be shocked at the modern machinery. And think of those poor dogs squashed in the rear!

dsemuk

I do need to think carefully about the dogs, although they travel laying down, OK most of the time they sleep. Its just the jumping in and out I need to be sure is OK.

I am verging towards the WRX-S, more power as standard, front end looks more purposful, I prefer the Q car look to flared wheel arches and 4 exhaust pipes etc, although bigger brakes and six speed box of the STI would be nice.

I don't do enough mileage to justify a diesel these days, hence why I can afford to put petrol in an Impreza! I've heard too many tails of woe re DPFs not regenerating properly on cars used for short journeys, whilst modern diesels are excellent they are designed for a purpose and 4k miles per year isn't the purpose. I've driven diesels for the last 15 years or so, i want some quiet

I've looked at Audi A3/S3 Sportsback, Volvo V50 and Skoda Octavia VRS estate all with the purpose of being best suited to the dogs, i'm not an estate person, yes they all drive well, the Audi would be great if I could afford to spec. one as I would like. Volvo was nicely built but bland, Skoda was excellent value for money, DSG gearbox great fun, but I just felt it was not for me or I would have had one a year or more ago.

No decision has been made yet, shame they don't make an Impreza wagon anymore. Before anyone says anything the Legacy is too big.

73henny

May well have been - 4 years ago. As you so often say, things have moved on.
My neighbour has just arrived home in his new type s (awful sickly blue colour). Think its a pee shooter petrol again (he drives like a snail). Its his second one so he must like them, then again, he is a dorky old git who met his other half (a glaswegian nutcase) through a lonely hearts club. Sergeant Pepper I call him.

pslewis

JD Power asked the Fleet Buyers in 2009 what was their most reliable car - Honda Civic.

Things have moved on, the Honda Civic remains as a sound car .....

pslewis

I have spent 6 months trying and testing and evaluating the cars on offer.

I need a car which will take a TowBar, have room for a German Shepherd Dog, look great and go well.

The WRX-S ticked the Towbar box and the go well box. It isn't great looking (but not too bad) and it would rightly result in me being reported to the RSPCA if I made my dog travel in that HatchBack boot - just no hieght whatsoever.

I didn't go out to get a Diesel .... until I drove a Honda Diesel, WOW! More torque than a WRX-S and a fraction of the running costs - Utopia!

I do about 6,000 miles a year - so, for simple cost reasons. the Diesels don't add up - but, they are better to drive now than they have ever been.

Yes, short journeys (like I do) kill Diesels with DPF's and I wouldn't buy a diesel with one .... luckily, the Honda Civic Diesel doesn't have one - RESULT!

Therefore, I have now put an order in for a Honda Civic Type S-GT 2.2 Diesel ..... loads of room for the dog in the boot, towbar acceptable, looks great (IMO) and goes very well indeed. In addition, it costs a fraction of an Impreza to run .... Sorted!

But, you do your research .... I ask you to try the Honda Civic Diesel - I think you will be amazed (as I was!).

VinceW

I have just measured the gap from the inside of the roof at the top of the tailgate vertically to the floor and it is 67cm. Where does 60cm come from? my car is a 2009 sti. The distance could be greater if they did away with the spacesave spare and gave you a tyre repair kit like Ford with the Focus ST. Personally I would rather have a spare!

dsemuk

Thanks for that VinceW, saved me driving back to our local dealer with the tape measure.