scooby1929

iTrader: (1)

What do you reckon would be nicer to drive and quicker to say 100 if you could achieve both with the same car??

Whats harder on the car? ie gearbox, clutch etc

Mines the 280 bhp / 350 lbs/ft torque

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

Easier car to drive will be the one with higher torque as it generally comes in lower down the rev range. The quicker car should be the higher hp one only if (of course) you're in the correct gear & don't get caught napping off boost

My pref is higher hp as I'm a proper petrolhead

TX.

dan69royal

generally the torque is what gets u off the line at speed as it has the grunt lower down the rev band, however on track, when ur always near the redline, its the power that would win the race. im sure il be corrected if im wrong

Motion-Mx

iTrader: (2)

quickest would be in between, 310lbft& 310BHP I believe

scooby L

An advantage of 100lbs of torque gave the Alpina D3 a 3 second advantage around Donington over the 330i (similar bhp levels)

I'm just looking for a comparative bhp advantage to compare... but all track cars have higher bhp so I'd bet on that being the better deal (If you willing to rev the nuts off it)

stonejedi

iTrader: (51)

its all about the torque my friend 280 bhp with 350 lbs/ft of torque {yes please!!!}.

vindaloo

Quicker to 100 would usually be the higher powerred car.

Just quoting peak numbers is pretty meaningless though, so assume one car's got a smaller, more responsive turbo and the other's got a large turbo. IMO the one with the smaller turbo would be nicer to drive but 0-100 or 1/4 mile, the other would win a race.

Peanuts

iTrader: (15)

what engine have you got to get 350 ft lbs but only 280hp? nice level of tune.

Horsepower is a product of torque so the two are inextricably linked.
extra 100ft lbs would smash the higher HP car by some margin, and be easier to drive FTW

scooby1929

iTrader: (1)

Its a 2.5 hawkeye WRX with full decat and remapped by JGM. The 2.5 engine gives a lot more torque

On a private lane a while back I put it up against my brothers friend blob STI PPP that had 305 bhp & 299 lbs/ft torque and he could not keep up.

WRX is around 80 kg lighter than STI tho

scooby1929

iTrader: (1)

But say they identical WRXs sitting beside each other.

One has 350 bhp 280 torque the other 350 bhp 280 torque!! What would win the 1/4 mile race??

scooby L

My money's on the WRX with more torque....once you're rolling all those lb's has gotta overhall the peak bhp (which will only be at 6.5-7k rpms)

wrxsti280

iTrader: (6)

wrc cars are all 300bhp ish, with nearly double torque figures, so would hazard a guess at the other way round being the quicker car top end, as torque would be used lower down the rev range.

IainMilford

iTrader: (15)

would be interesting to see a proper test done, two exact same cars etc

More_Boost

Horse power then Torque everyday !

vindaloo

If driven properly, the one with higher power... If revved out properly, he can consistently deploy more horses onto the ground. Though if mechanical sympathy is allowed to creep into the situation (say both cars "drive away" from rest rather than launch), then the higher torque car may get an initial advantage.

J.

trevsjwood

iTrader: (2)

The higher powered car providing the driver could keep the rpm around the 7k, as at Santa Pod 1/4 mile. With certain road conditions were the full rpm band was deployed then the higher torque would have the advantage.
I have 360hp/400lbsft and best 1/4mile 12.93. A fellow forum member with same age car 401hp/355lbsft has best 1/4mile 12.1 sec.
Trev

Peanuts

iTrader: (15)

F1 cars have eleventy billion HP don't they but only 10ft lbs.....

Because they are never out the powerband.

But your average scooby driver is a clueless hero so the torque will compensate an awful lot.

serega

bhp only measures a peak, while torque gives you a power idea over the whole rev range.

a car with high bhp but low torque will only have that high bhp achieved over a smaller rev range which means that it only puts down those real horses for short amounts of time and will be very slow when its not high in the rev range, however when you race your car, your revs are always high and bhp figures are more important than torque - a short ratio gearbox is also prefered for those types of engines because you dont drop as much RPM when you shift and you keep your car in the sweet spot.

high torque cars have their bhp spread out over the rev range, so the power comes earlier and is kept rather more constant to the redline.

High torque cars are more pleasant to drive as you dont have to shift gears as much to be in the "sweet spot" and from a low rpm rolling start a car with more torque will always win.

Twin sequential turbo's would be a good example for torque.

A single big turbo car, will have its peak bhp at say 500 hp, but only comes into power at 4500 rpm. If you add a smaller turbo that spools very early that will switch off before 4500 rpm, your bhp stays the same, but your torque figure will increase by alot.

Thats how i understand it anyway

Alan Jeffery

High torque FEELS faster but high power IS faster.
Actual results depend on conditions and size of caravan.

Terminator X

iTrader: (7)

They're pegged at 300hp though aren't they? Given a free reign I'm sure they'd prefer more horses

TX.

GC8

The latter will be 'quicker'. The reason is that the 350bhp car with low torque will make the power as a result of high revs, making it intractable and requiring that you wring its neck whenever you want to make progress - think race engine with a 10,000 redline and a massively expensive crank and rods.

The 280bhp car with high torque will have it lower down range, and the the range will be great, meaning that 'quick' probably wont even need a downchange - think low specific power per litre, but torquey, American V8.

DazW

iTrader: (1)

Some idea of RPM's involved:

HP = T * RPM / 5252

so:

280hp & 350lb = 4200 rpm ('ish)

350hp & 280lb = 6500rpm ('ish)

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Gearing is different between the wrx and the STI, power delivery will be different, so unless you compare like for like it wont make one bit of difference

Tony

tathan

A car with more area under the curve is going to be faster as long as it isn't a diesel and the area's all centered around 2k rpm.

Peak horsepower doesn't tell you much - if it makes **** all torque until 6,000rpm then limits at 7,000rpm, it isn't going to be very fast along an a-road compared to something that can provide most of the peak torque but all through the last few k.

tathan

so good i had to say it twice

Jules_E

Nicer to drive is a tricky one. A while back I had a 180bhp leon cupra that was a pleasure to drive, with a fair bit of torque and power very low down the rev range. You hardly had to try to make good progress and it was far less recalcitrant than the scooby. However, as you neared the relatively modest redline it the power just fizzled out.

One of the things I love about my wrx ppp is that it pull hard all the way to the redline. I don't drive on the limit very often, but when the opportunity arises, that top end bang is intoxicating. On balance the thrill of the occasionally flat ouyt charge wins my vote, but it's horses for courses. Some loathe the CTR for its lack of torque, but what about that v-tech howl at the top end? It's simply thrilling.

I'd take torque when driving the kids around but bhp every time on a lonely B road with only myself as company.

Peanuts

iTrader: (15)

in that situation I'd take ****, tissues and a kit kat chunky

dunx

iTrader: (3)

I prefer to chase something tasty....

LOL

dunx

P.S. I think torque feels quicker, but I like my 7750 rpm limiter...... IMHO.

vindaloo

Your diesel quote... Power with a diesel is more of a flat line once the boost is up... Say 80% of peak power between 2500 rpm and 4500rpm with peak power at 165+BHP around 3750 rpm. I kind of disagree about the 2K rpm thing. Though my Fabia can pull from lower revs, it (and myself) feel far happier once above 2K rpm. If you'd said 3K rpm, that would be more like it.

I kind-of feel your comment about peak BHP is also true of peak torque. IMO the longer and wider the power band the better. Good throttle response and power @ 2500rpm held until 6500+rpm would do it for me. On a WRX that's probably TD04 or TD04 hybrid territory rather than anything bigger though.

J.

Reef

iTrader: (2)

Woo Hoo, mines got 311bhp with 321lbft.

That bob's a top mapper