sniffmydiff

iTrader: (1)

comments/advice required please . . . . . . . .

im thinking of changing my '06 sti for a used sti hatchback,

the new look has grown on me and i'm thinking of taking the plunge but -

the engine failure issue is quite worrying and causing a dilemma,

when the warranty runs out and if the engine went pop it would cost quite

a bit of money to repair.

would a model with ppp be better with the revised ecu,

what other issues to consider with them ?

thanks folks.

scoobiewrx555

Spend the exrta money on your 06 STi and make it so damn good to drive the requirement for a new gen hatch will be nothing more than a distant memory.

Your hawkeye is a much better looking car IMHO and forget PPP.

53

iTrader: (41)

Touch, wouldn't, pole etc.... unless it's JDM

StanS

iTrader: (3)

Check out whats on offer from Iain Litchfield - JDM 400BHP + warranty. No need to mess with it (like you would with a UK)

pslewis

^^^ If you can get Insurance and parts ^^^

Dave_P

Don't listen to the knockers mate (and the hatch STI has plenty), it's a great car...especially after a few choice mods

Both the PPP and non PPP UK cars can be prone to det (and associated piston failure) on the standard ECU map. Updated maps have been issued by Subaru UK but they don't seem to have resolved the occasional det / piston failure issue. There are a lot of paranoid hatch STI owners about at the moment

The JDM hatch STI has the 2.0 engine and is therefore not prone to the same det / piston failure issues as the UK 2.5 (the 2.0 engine pistons are made from the same material as the 2.5, but the 2.0 pistons have a different/stronger piston skirt)

If you buy a UK car budget an extra £500 to go and see a decent mapper and get a bespoke map and you will be ok. But make sure the mapper has the updated flash can ECUtek software for the 2008+ STI, as the 08 (unlike the earler 2.5 STI), has variable valve timing on both the inlet and sides. Simon (aka Jolly Green Monster) did mine.

If you don't intend to do a lot to the car buy either the 330S or a PPP as it comes with some useful exhaust parts fitted that will work well with a bespoke ECU map. If you intend to fit an aftermarket exhaust and air filter/cold air intake anyway buy a standard STI. Both cars will need a bespoke re-map anyway.

After an initial engine failure on a completely standard car (all sorted under warranty) I have been running 365bhp for the last 25K miles on my hatch STI with no problems or excessive oil use. So it would seem it's the ECU map that's the problem, not the engine

If you want anymore info PM me or speak to Ian at Litchfields, he knows the hatch STI better than most...

p.s. I have owned a few scoobies now and this is the best day to day performance car of them all. But if you are after a weekend toy / raw performance car a sorted classic Type R or P1 is the way to go IMO

Dave_P

I'm assuming you are being a troll on this thread, but just in case your not, for info Litchfield's can sort these as well without any problems, as they have been doing for the last 11 years or so....

scooby L

When it comes down to it...I'd put my money on Iain keeping the supply door open longer than IMG...

urban

iTrader: (1)

All in your opinion of course


the STI hatch is my 5th Impreza and by far its the best of the whole lot of mine.
MY98
MY00
MY02 STI Prodrive Style PPP
MY05 STI PPP then Andy Forrest remapped at 3 year old.
MY10 330S

To say forget PPP - personally I don't quite agree with that.
My last car (05 STI) had PPP, and then an Andy Forrest remap.
OK, after Andy's remap it was substancially more torquey and had a far larger power band.

But the PPP is still pretty good value if you add up the overall costs

scoobiewrx555

If you're been provided with PPP as part of the deal FOC, like they did with some of the older newage cars to make them a more attractive buy then fine, i'm all for that. But to pay so much extra on top of the asking price for a generic remap (one size fits all) plus a couple of hardware changes is not good value.

Every scoob STi hatch although identical in parts won't be identical in performance as std and no two scoobs will react in the same way to a generic remap. Sometimes you will get some very wide variations between identical cars.

For the same money you can get some very nice quality performance parts added to your scoob that will make a huge difference when remapped by an expert specifically for your car. You'll never beat a full custom remap for price, quality and quantity.

The only advantage PPP has over any Open Source or EcuTek remap is that it won't affect your factory warranty. If you're paying for PPP because you think it's good value you are quite frankly misguided and deluding yourself. If you're paying for it because it's the only way to get some extra go and keep your warrantly intact then IMHO that's absolutely fine and you should go for it.

ETA: IMHO If you're keeping the car long term drive it as std for the term of the warranty which over time will build up strength in the engine and it's parts, and save your money over that time. At the end of the warranty go for the mother of all mods and remaps and treat yourself to something far greater than the sum of it's parts, and i'm not just talking engine and remap mods, there's suspension and brakes too.

urban

iTrader: (1)

I sort of see your point.

However, I've been on both sides here.

PPP in terms of value/what you get - lets take my MY05 STI for example.

So list price was £1,995 and you get

A high flow downpipe
An uprated fuel pump
A resonated centre section
A remapped ECU
Fitting of all the above - so thats probably what 3 hours labour?
A warranty

So in my book thats good value for your money.

If you go custom remap, then sure you get more power (I've been there!)
But you have to buy/fit all those additional bits - so that's going to cost the guts of £1,000 I'd imagine.

Then your remap will be approx £600 (£150 license, £350 map, 87.5 VAT)

But you won't have any warranty

sniffmydiff

iTrader: (1)

thanks folks for some interesting replies,

i have been thinking of remapping my '06 sti,spending on that instead,

it's covered 53k miles,its also on the cheaper tax band,drives well and i like the looks of it,as with everything the money you spend on them you'll
never get back when you sell

the sti hatch looks good,to some of us anyway !!,i would probably end up with an '08 ,due to finances,it would be a long term buy.

the engine issue has really got me in two minds of what to do,
as stated above to get a 'proper' remap would invalidate the warranty
but would hopefully cure the engine issues,

its a case of - do i take the plunge and hope to buy a 'good' one.

pslewis

But ONLY if the car is out of Warranty or you will be on your own

pslewis

Remember too that mappers don't offer warranties - the ppp comes with a solid back-up.

Do you feel lucky, punk? Well ..... do ya?

53

iTrader: (41)

A high flow downpipe is by far the most value in this package and missing from MY06+ PPP cars ! PPP is a token performance upgrade for warranty reasons, and is only money well spent if it's IM's money FOC for marketing

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

I think the very fact you have posted here asking this question means that if you buy one you will always be worrying and ergo you will never fully enjoy the car.

Why not spend the money on modding your 06, keep all the original parts and put it back as standard when you eventually sell it - means you can sell the mods off and not be too out of pocket.

Personally (and this is not a dig) I would not buy an 08 car from any manufacturer if that car NEEDED an aftermarket re-map to make it right.

Up to you though of course.

sniffmydiff

iTrader: (1)

the more i think about it i'm swaying towards keeping the hawkeye,

at the moment its only got a blitz centre section with a prodrive backbox
uprated panel filter,prodrive springs,srtutbrace,sti lip spoiler,GT1's.

i'd probably like to de-cat the lower section,get a remap,
hopefully achieve around 330/340bhp,replace front discs/pads.
spend around £1000 and make it a better car,

any other advice on this appreciated,

maybe look at the hatch situation next year

codie247

Best Subaru out of the ones ive had, by far.
99 Classic turbo
02 Prodrive Style STI with ppp
04 WRX wagon (280bhp)
53 STi (340bhp) with suspension mods etc..

08 STi with Revolution cat back, decat pipe, Richard Bulmer remap, tein springs, uprated rear roll bar, fast road geometry.

A really capable car after these couple of minor tweeks. And the best looking.

Miss mine sometimes, but hey.

Lee

Cannon Fodder

iTrader: (100)

Give me a ring at work and we'll speak about the Group Buy re-mapping that I'm running with Bob Rawle.

STEVECHAPS

Ditto (Almost):
MY99
MY00
MY03 STi PPP & Prodrive springs,pff7's, lip, grilles, custom decal's, then Richard Bulmer remap etc, etc (Regretted selling it almost immediately & the Noble M12 GTO 3r which replaced it only softened the blow for a while!).
MY05 STi PPP & Prodrive springs
MY09 STi PPP

Can't think of anything i preferred on the previous cars over the hatch, not even the black beastie.

8.5k miles here, no oil useage, no failure yet, if it does let go it'll either be warranty (why wouldn't it if you have a history of Subaru ownership not involving multiple claims for damaged engines or simply quote the threads on here & US sites to IM?) or £2k for cosworth pistons!
To OP, go for a long drive in a hatch ppp, preferably on your own to try it properly - if you have a decent relationship with your dealer, then decide.........

Dave_P

There are ways to get round this

By the way I'm not saying all hatch STI's must be re-mapped to be reliable, that's just my experience. There are plenty of other hatch STI owners out there running standard and PPP maps and their cars are fine.

Some Impreza owners like to keep there cars completely standard and some like to tune them, fair play to both, but the reason I bought an STI was because of how well they respond to a few decent modifications (engine, chassis, suspension & brakes). Few other cars offer the same performance per pound...that's why I have remained loyal to the brand despite the horror stories

sniffmydiff I suggest you take a 330S for a test drive, then drive your current car on the same route/roads to see if you like the difference...before I bought mine I test drove a hawkeye STI PPP back to back with a hatch STI on the same route (fast B roads), I ended up buying a hatch STI after that road test

Apostle

Is it a risky buy you ask ? ..... Of course it is, and you know it.

"Many" hatch Sti's have gone pop - standard uk models, reflashed uk models, PPP / 330S models, euro import models Etc Etc.

And maybe Subaru UK will rebuild it for you using the same crappy parts - but who wants the hassle or shadow of this looming over them...

If you get it remapped / ecutekked you 'might' be fine.... thus it's still a risky buy.

The 2 main problem's they have are
1. over aggressive ignition mapping
2. crappy pistons

The re-map sorts the map, but the pistons are still crap.

Thus is my opinion ( as an MY08Sti owner with an Enginetuner forged rebuild - which is nice BUT a truly unwanted expense £K's).

Knowing what I know now - I wouldn't encourage any friend of mine to buy one.

Am I bitter... NO not at all - my car is fantastic now 370/370 'geniune' bhp - superb to drive BUT it has cost me more money than I have

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Good post.

To the OP stick with what you know and what works.

rb5 286

iTrader: (2)

THE STI HATCH IS BY FAR THE BEST OF THE 4 SCOOBS I'VE OWNED FOR MY EVERY DAY DRIVING

I DRIVE THE CAR NOW WITH NO CONFIDENCE IN THE ENGINE UNDER THE BONNET BUT ITS A PLAIN OLD 50/50 IF IT GOES AGAIN.

If i had the means I would be swapping mine in for the R205 (JDM 2.0 with twin scroll turbo) for total piece of mind in view of the engine probs.

i'd say this is your best bet if you want the hatch, go the JDM 2.0 route in hatchback STI form

Littleted

you can also get a few mountain bikes in the back of a hatch :P and a dog :P

f1_fan

iTrader: (9)

Yes and a bike is useful to complete your journey when your engine gives up

Apostle

"a few mountain bikes" only if they've been chopped up with an angle grinder lol

The only negative thing about my hatch is the small boot space when compared with previous wagons etc...

This was a serious thread and I fear its gone a little cynical - bike joke did make me larf tho'

Off Your Marks

iTrader: (3)

From another angle - i'd say the hatch is a poor buy if you look at depreciation - OK there are some people who like them BUT the general concensus is that they look awful, have engine issues and dont offer the performance or edge they once did.

I think they are another bugeye (I actually love bugeyes) in the waiting

urban

iTrader: (1)

I disagree
OK - engine issues I agree
Depreciation I can't answer right now

Look awful - disagree too
Infact what Impreza actually looks good in the first place?
People buy them because they go well and are pretty sure footed in dodgy conditions
They don't cost the earth to run in comparison to other "equal" performance marques

I still say that the hatch is the best Impreza I've owned by far - my opinion of course, but based on fact that I've owned new versions since 1998

I suggest that the people that don't like them actually drive one instead of judging by the eye

Littleted

to be serious, its what you like and what you want to buy.

Engine issues aside, youll be covered under warrenty if it happens but i know people on 40k miles and still going and its fine.

If you like the look and its the personal choice of you then get 1.

Your car you have now is fine but as you said your drawn towards the new shape , as i was, dont get me wrong i think the rb320 model Unsure what that is or the last of the old style look awsome, Subaru made the mistake with the bugeye i think, ( is that the 1 that looks all round and weird )

Times move on cars change shape people moan but its down to what YOU want.

if unsure m8 go to iain at Lichfields and get his 2.0lt models you wont go wrong wih that.

My biggest issue with mine if any is to be honest the state of play with Subaru as a company, not great and struggling at present, and out of all the cars i owned from Civic Type R, Astra VXrs and Audis, the subaru is the worst at Customer service, but then again they are really an Imported car, so its part of the parcel.