liverpoolphil

hi all

This my first post, spent quite a bit of time on the forum and found out lots of useful stuff, but hope some of you may be able to help me out.

The engine management light (CEL) has appeared on my car, it actually appeared a few weeks ago then went out but has now appeared again

Car is totally standard apart from factory fitted PPP, and has never skipped a beat since I bought it earlier in the year.

It is running fine, doesnt seem to be suffering due to the CEL being on but I need to get the code diagnosed. Took it to my local garage, they want £45 to scan the car. So I have a coulpe of questions:

1) Its seems I can buy my own scanner (from fleabay) for less than that, are they worth it?
2) Is £45 about right to get the car scanned, seems steep to me!
3) Anyone in the North West area know someone who can get me the code for any less?

Thanks in advance

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

£45 quid seems about right from a dealer, the readers on fleabay will just read the code, if you need anything sorting then the dealer can probably sort it there and then (possably a sensor or the likes playing up), but whatever you do, DONT ignore the fact that you have a CEL coming up, it means there is an issue there somewhere and its worth getting a £45 quid checkup rather than a 2.5k bill for an engine in extreme cases and I know which one I would rather pay for

Tony

liverpoolphil

thanks Tony, I just thought that if I buy one I can diagnose it myself, then take it to the dealer and tell them what needs sorting. I wouldnt mind, this wasnt a main dealer more a back street garage not sure if I would want them to fix it anyways.

Splitpin

Was this "local garage" a Subaru main dealer, or just your local garage? The answer to your questions below vary with the answer to this one.

They will do no more or less than report the OBD2 error codes, and sometimes some fairly basic engine diagnostic info. Most will allow you to reset the ECUs error counter too.

If your local garage is a general place, the device they have won't tell you a whole lot more. However, if you went to a Subaru dealer, a proper Subaru diagnostic computer is far more comprehensive than a generic code reader, so not only will they be able to see what caused the error(s), they'll also be able to diagnose exactly how the offending item is running out of parameter, and may be able to fix the car more quickly/efficiently/cheaply as a result.

It's steep for your local garage, and on the steep side for a main dealer too, but at least if it's a Subaru dealer you should get more info and experience for your money.

53

iTrader: (41)

PMSL £45 to plug a serial port and press scan. I have done loads of resets and scans for people with my scanguage II, worthwhile investment for a very good trip computer/code scanner.

liverpoolphil

thanks for your help splitpin - I think I am going to go for a drive to prosport over the next few days - at least I know they DO know what they are going on about

liverpoolphil

my thought exactly

jvivok1985

iTrader: (4)

i bought my own scanner, was cheap enough, have used it on my scooby a few times, and on some mates cars when they have a fault, tells the fault code, or description, always a useful tool to keep. ! off payment an u got ur own, saves takin it to a garage everytime u get a light up

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Put it this way for all those with the scanners, if you keep getting cel or any other fault light coming out, resetting wont do you any good as all your doing is probably hiding the fact that there is actually a problem, so you have wasted your cash on a scanner, hence over the 3 scoobs and 8 years of ownership that I have never had a cel light or any other (with the exception of a faulty alternator) light come up on my dash or anywhere else, and if I did then I would be wondering what exactly caused that light to come on and not just keep resetting it (I like to think about these things )

Tony

speedking

I had the CEL light up due to a Neutral Position switch fault. The diagnostics at the dealer said misfire on cylinders 1,2 and 4 Yet the car was running as smooth as ever. "Yes you can hear it running rough" he said.

The dealer charged £70 for that scan. He suggested stripping the engine down to find out what was wrong

I bought an OBDII reader and digimoto. Replaced three NPS in 110,000 miles. The scanner paid for itself many times over in those incidents alone. Has also been used for data logging on several cars.

jvivok1985

iTrader: (4)

my scanner is the connect thru a laptop type,so gives abit of detail, says cam position sensoer an fault code an so on, also can check engine when running, as in temps, pressures, lambda, fuel running rich or whatever. Just used it to diagnose a bmw with fault cps too

scoobyboothy

iTrader: (1)

has anybody got any links to the above items please?

53

iTrader: (41)

ScanGauge II Xgauge Free Postage - Now available in United Kingdom, the 3-in-one Automotive Computeran OBD 2 Scanner. Realtime feedback while simultaneously tracking three sets of trip data

speedking

ELM 327 version 1.3a: Amazon.co.uk: Electronics & Photo

www.digimoto.com

SunnySideUp

£45

I was asked for £25 to read my error code - I did it in 20 seconds by connecting two wires and reading the flashes on the dash (Classic) ... this was at a highly rated Subaru Specialist Rip Off!!

Buy a scanner and do it yourself is my advice. Also, if the car is running well the most likely problem is a duff connector. Wiggle the wires and make/break the connectors.

One of the reasons you do not disconnect the crank angle sensor after every oil change is because you weaken that connection each time (besides the fact that it is an utterly pointless procedure).

bushiwarrior

just bought one of these which is a great peice of equipment and does much much more. Rrp £349 in some places and £175 here

https://www.scoobynet.com/trader-ann...s-special.html

VI Monitor - OBDII performance monitor, car performance datalogging & car diagnostics for OBD2 port | VI - Virtual Instrumentation

liverpoolphil

thanks for the advice, got it done today for £20 (but more reasonable) took all af about 30 seconds, gave the code P0172 (left bank). Apparently this is the O2 sensor but I am going to do a little more research on this and find some more out about it

guy said not to do anything about it unless the light comes back on, good / bad advice what do you think?

scoobyboy

there is no left bank on a turbo only the h6 engine so do you mean bank 1 sensor 2?

liverpoolphil

yeah thats the one.

I have read about both the MAF and lambda sensors being cleaned and significantly improving general running / operation of the car.

Was thinking of doing it over the weekend, this something someone with pretty basic mechanical knowledge can deal with, or am I in danger of opening a huge can of worms for myself and making things worse?

53

iTrader: (41)

Lots of information around fella. What mods if any do you have, have you checked the air intake, filter etc.

OBD-II Trouble Code: P0172 System Too Rich (Bank 1)

liverpoolphil

the only mod is factory fitted PPP (from new) - if thats classed as a mod??

Been reading various posts over the past few days. Fancy having a go at reaching, cleaning the sensors - resetting ecu (something else I have read a lot about) - but not sure if I might potentially make things worse for myself

Dedrater

scoobyboy

best thing to do is take it to a dealer who has the proper equipment and ask them to check it for you, it will be a lot more accurate than the stuff off the net.

liverpoolphil

spoke with dealer on phone, gave the fault code and asked for a price. He said its the O2 / Air sensor (he said this is NOT the lambda sensor - I thought they were obth the same thing?) and quoted me £320 + 1hr Labour for the job

However, I have found an exact same car being broken on ebay and they have said I can have the sensor for £85 posted. I know its quite an easy fix so wondering what you all think is the best to do.

Car is definitely using slightly more fuel, running a little unsettled on low revs, but since the code / light has been reset its not come back on? My next question is, if the sensor is indeed fooked, would it not light up the CEL immediately

Thanks for your help and advice so far!

scoobyboy

bank1 sensor 2 is the o2 sensor and it's in the exhaust pipe lust after the gearbox, bank 1 sensor 1 is the air/fuel ratio sensor and is on the front corner of the exhaust on the drivers side.
thats why you need it on a select monitor so you can see if it's working or not

scoobyboothy

iTrader: (1)

so the one you can see near the turbo is not the actual lambda sensor, it's a bit further down on the the cat pipe

scoobyboy

yes, if the one you can see just before the turbo is a very thin one then that is a temp sensor, the o2 will have to be seen from underneath really and you can see the air/fuel ratio one through the front off side wheel arch if you remove the small plastic shield in the corner

liverpoolphil

right...so the one under the driver side wheel arch is the O2 / Air sensor NOT the lambda sensor

Car still using more fuel than usual - but still not threw another CEL light yet

liverpoolphil

bit of an update for those interested - I cleaned the MAF with some MAF cleaner - really improved the general running of the engine, very smooth and runs well at low revs

HOWEVER, its still using more fuel than usual. Next think I think I am going to look at is the lambda, what would you do:
1) Pay the dealer the £300 + VAT + Labour
2) Buy the second hand one from a breaker (same car - same year) £85
3) Go with one of the supposed direct fit - exact - replacements - Found one on ebay Subaru Impreza WRX & STi Front Lambda Oxygen Sensor on eBay (end time 16-Jan-10 12:13:58 GMT)

Any input appreciated