LPG on my Subaru remove or not? Help!!!!
28 October 2009, 07:54 PM
#1
LPG on my Subaru remove or not? Help!!!!
I purchased my Subaru 6 months ago and it has had a LPG conversion which it has run on for over a year with no problems whatsoever at £21 for a full tank of gas.
I have been told that the LPG will damage the engine due to it being a dry fuel.
It is fitted with flash lube which wet the valves to prevent meltdown.
And it also runs on normal fuel also of which i have always run it on V power since purchase.
My car is a 54 reg V - Limited STI 8.
to remove the gas it would cost around £600 and the cheapest qoute i had was £400.
I went to the dealer who i purchased the car off and as the dealer knows the LPG fitter personally he said he could remove the conversion for me for £150 and he will split the cost with me at £75 each and the LPG fitter to keep the kit as part of the costs to remove it.
The kits are around £1500 - £2000 pound fitted, it is booked in for tomorrow for removal but i am in 2 minds about having it removed i need some advice on the implications of the damage to my engine if left on.
Cheers any help would be great as i need to make my mind up tonight!
I have been told that the LPG will damage the engine due to it being a dry fuel.
It is fitted with flash lube which wet the valves to prevent meltdown.
And it also runs on normal fuel also of which i have always run it on V power since purchase.
My car is a 54 reg V - Limited STI 8.
to remove the gas it would cost around £600 and the cheapest qoute i had was £400.
I went to the dealer who i purchased the car off and as the dealer knows the LPG fitter personally he said he could remove the conversion for me for £150 and he will split the cost with me at £75 each and the LPG fitter to keep the kit as part of the costs to remove it.
The kits are around £1500 - £2000 pound fitted, it is booked in for tomorrow for removal but i am in 2 minds about having it removed i need some advice on the implications of the damage to my engine if left on.
Cheers any help would be great as i need to make my mind up tonight!
28 October 2009, 08:59 PM
#3
Votes would be a great help as ive only got tonight to decide as its booked in for the morning..it has been fitted over a year and no problems other than its not for performance so when you plant the accelerator it splutters so it is only for normal driving for performance i switch it over to fuel but i am wondering if it will conflict with my ecu although it does have its own seperate ecu.
28 October 2009, 09:02 PM
#4
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if it ain't broke.................
i have had lpg on my WRX wagon for nearly the last 2 years and it has never missed a beat; re-sell makes the car massively attractive or massively unattractive depending on your pov, so you take your chances; have you considered that it might not just be a straight removal??, and why pay to have it taken out; if you really don't want lpg, 1, why did you buy it and 2, why don't you just keep it in permanent petrol mode and avoid the expense/hassle of removal
like me, you use Vpower, and presumably the lpg for boring driving - 2 cars in one, all the fun of petrol but the ecconomy of lpg when necessary and who can argue with £21?
mine gets thrashed, 25k+ a year carrying a load near 100kg, mostly on lanes and farm tracks and the engine is sweet as a nut (the suspension is another story!)
i know what i would be doing
i have had lpg on my WRX wagon for nearly the last 2 years and it has never missed a beat; re-sell makes the car massively attractive or massively unattractive depending on your pov, so you take your chances; have you considered that it might not just be a straight removal??, and why pay to have it taken out; if you really don't want lpg, 1, why did you buy it and 2, why don't you just keep it in permanent petrol mode and avoid the expense/hassle of removal
like me, you use Vpower, and presumably the lpg for boring driving - 2 cars in one, all the fun of petrol but the ecconomy of lpg when necessary and who can argue with £21?
mine gets thrashed, 25k+ a year carrying a load near 100kg, mostly on lanes and farm tracks and the engine is sweet as a nut (the suspension is another story!)
i know what i would be doing
Last edited by chart pattern; 28 October 2009 at 09:05 PM. Reason: spelling
28 October 2009, 09:11 PM
#5
Just out of curiosity chart pattern is your car responsive in LPG mode as mine splutters if you plant the throttle and will only accelerate gradually (normal driving)
2 votes to keep it so far but does anyone know if it will conflict with my subaru ecu i.e. if i pay for a remap for when using fuel will the LPG usage conflict with my ecu ending up in me throwing remap money down the drain. cheers
2 votes to keep it so far but does anyone know if it will conflict with my subaru ecu i.e. if i pay for a remap for when using fuel will the LPG usage conflict with my ecu ending up in me throwing remap money down the drain. cheers
28 October 2009, 09:20 PM
#6
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What type of system is it?
The gas ECU takes values from the Subaru ECU and then does a calc and tells the gas injectors what to do. THe gas would just follow the petrol remap.
Depending on where stuff in fitted it will more than likely leave a good few holes in your car. E.g. Filler cap, mounting bolts for the tank etc.
I would imagine you will be left with 4 holes in your inlet manifold as well.
Wiring should be fairly easy each gas injector is piggybacked onto your petrol injection wiring and you should have another wire going to cylinder no. 1.
You will have the gas ECU and wiring to the vaporiser but that is not involved with any of the cars wiring.
I would be most worried about the inlet manifold unless you are happy to replace?
What power is your car, maybe the lpg system is not powerful enough to cope. F1 Automotive in Bolton had an FQ330 or 300 running more bhp on gas!
The gas ECU takes values from the Subaru ECU and then does a calc and tells the gas injectors what to do. THe gas would just follow the petrol remap.
Depending on where stuff in fitted it will more than likely leave a good few holes in your car. E.g. Filler cap, mounting bolts for the tank etc.
I would imagine you will be left with 4 holes in your inlet manifold as well.
Wiring should be fairly easy each gas injector is piggybacked onto your petrol injection wiring and you should have another wire going to cylinder no. 1.
You will have the gas ECU and wiring to the vaporiser but that is not involved with any of the cars wiring.
I would be most worried about the inlet manifold unless you are happy to replace?
What power is your car, maybe the lpg system is not powerful enough to cope. F1 Automotive in Bolton had an FQ330 or 300 running more bhp on gas!
28 October 2009, 09:35 PM
#7
The LPG specialist who fitted the kit is the person who will be removing it and assured me that he would cap off the holes in the inlet and the mounting hole in the boot floor and any wiring tidy up. he will have it for going on 2 days to remove it....the reason i am considering removal is i took it for a rolling road at scooby clinic achieving 281bhp and scooby clinic recommended removal but i need second opinions. Scooby Clinic were excellent but i want to be really sure
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28 October 2009, 09:50 PM
#8
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After having so many subarus that have needed engine work (and no LPG) and also 5 LPG cars it'd be a no brainer to keep the LPG on it for me! I can't see why you would take it off to be honest unless you don't do many miles. you should also have slightly cheaper car tax to as it is an alt fuel car. £60 vs £21 to fill up, I'll take the £21 please 
28 October 2009, 10:17 PM
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Got a friend who has lpg on his Audi allroad which is the 2.7 twin turbo one. He had it remapped before the lpg was fitted so it's supposedly running 320BHP and runs as smooth on the lpg (once warmed up) as it does on petrol.
Sounds like yours might not be set up right if it's not running properly, might be worth getting it checked by someone else as it should be as smooth as petrol and from what i was told only be around 10% down on power.
Sounds like yours might not be set up right if it's not running properly, might be worth getting it checked by someone else as it should be as smooth as petrol and from what i was told only be around 10% down on power.
28 October 2009, 10:28 PM
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IMHO, remap is not a waste of money even with LPG. JGM coincidently remapped my car a fortnight ago from standard 225 to 274. Noticeable improvement in power on LPG but still waiting to have ecu on gas system tweeked as well. Car def more responsive in LPG but still not as good as petrol by any stretch. Gas not a lot of use in power accelerations as it always throws me into petrol at 4000 revs. I just shove it in full petrol mode until back to normal driving again. However the remap has improved this and actually improved the mpg of gas. I still say, just leave it in petrol mode and leave the engine alone.
28 October 2009, 10:42 PM
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Have to agree with damescort, maybe you should get a 2nd opinion on your setup. My system has it's limitations which I accept. I know that at 4000 revs on hard acceleration I am going to get chucked back to petrol so I avoid that situation.
why would it be a joke? 
28 October 2009, 11:44 PM
#20
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A ha, so you are in Manchester, see Andy at Warrington autogas, he'll be able to give it a service and set it up properly, tell him that Adam with the Black BMW 545 sent you 
he's converted 2 of ours and checked over/fixed the other 3 we've had/have, spot on, decent price and knows his stuff!
he's converted 2 of ours and checked over/fixed the other 3 we've had/have, spot on, decent price and knows his stuff!
29 October 2009, 09:11 AM
#23
LPG - stands for little pansy girl which is clearly what you are fordrsrickc 
, don't be so tight with the price of fuel it's a performance car and v power is for men.
it's not a driving miss daisy car and think of all the extra weight your carrying.
i know the real reason you want to keep it is because your scared the car is a bit fast for you
whatever next next solar power ?
no offence was ment in the writing of this thread (to anyone using the said lpg) it's based on the fact i know the op and therefore am compeled to make a comment
, don't be so tight with the price of fuel it's a performance car and v power is for men. it's not a driving miss daisy car and think of all the extra weight your carrying.
i know the real reason you want to keep it is because your scared the car is a bit fast for you
whatever next next solar power ? no offence was ment in the writing of this thread (to anyone using the said lpg) it's based on the fact i know the op and therefore am compeled to make a comment
29 October 2009, 09:54 AM
#24
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29 October 2009, 02:37 PM
#25
Now Now Ting Tong
LPG - stands for little pansy girl which is clearly what you are fordrsrickc , don't be so tight with the price of fuel it's a performance car and v power is for men.
it's not a driving miss daisy car and think of all the extra weight your carrying.
i know the real reason you want to keep it is because your scared the car is a bit fast for you
whatever next next solar power ?
no offence was ment in the writing of this thread (to anyone using the said lpg) it's based on the fact i know the op and therefore am compeled to make a comment
, don't be so tight with the price of fuel it's a performance car and v power is for men. it's not a driving miss daisy car and think of all the extra weight your carrying.
i know the real reason you want to keep it is because your scared the car is a bit fast for you
whatever next next solar power ? no offence was ment in the writing of this thread (to anyone using the said lpg) it's based on the fact i know the op and therefore am compeled to make a comment
29 October 2009, 03:25 PM
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LPG - stands for little pansy girl which is clearly what you are fordrsrickc , don't be so tight with the price of fuel it's a performance car and v power is for men.
it's not a driving miss daisy car and think of all the extra weight your carrying.
i know the real reason you want to keep it is because your scared the car is a bit fast for you
whatever next next solar power ?
no offence was ment in the writing of this thread (to anyone using the said lpg) it's based on the fact i know the op and therefore am compeled to make a comment
, don't be so tight with the price of fuel it's a performance car and v power is for men. it's not a driving miss daisy car and think of all the extra weight your carrying.
i know the real reason you want to keep it is because your scared the car is a bit fast for you
whatever next next solar power ? no offence was ment in the writing of this thread (to anyone using the said lpg) it's based on the fact i know the op and therefore am compeled to make a comment
If i said i knew of a 300BHP renault 5 which runs only on LPG would you (and others with this misconception) be forced to change your views?
It's something i've thought about doing at some point on my own car once it's up and running, why should the yanks be the only ones with cheap fuel?
29 October 2009, 04:21 PM
#27
Does Ting Tong know that LPG has higher RON than V-power? Not that it matters, but it does give bragging rights...and a good excuse to wind up the boost 
Anyhoo, not had any personal experience of LPG on imprezas, but never heard of any engine related issues on ones that have been converted either.
The reasons to remove it sounds like an old scare mongering claptrap story, as found with many LPG naysayer or snake-oil sellers. I've never heard of any valve seat or valve problems on Imprezas, barring phsyical damage from cambelt or big end failures. Even on big BHP engines, so it can be said this part of the engine is not prone to any issues.
The only issues I've come across on LPG vehicle is mainly down to the installation itself, or bad ignition components. The high RON needs the coilpacks, leads and spark plugs to be 100% otherwise it causes all sorts of issues - worst case was on a Rangie V8 suffering inlet backfires, killing MAFs and exploding the airbox - all due to some old ignition leads. Even then it didn't do any engine damage.
Not that it matters, but it does give bragging rights...and a good excuse to wind up the boost Anyhoo, not had any personal experience of LPG on imprezas, but never heard of any engine related issues on ones that have been converted either.
The reasons to remove it sounds like an old scare mongering claptrap story, as found with many LPG naysayer or snake-oil sellers. I've never heard of any valve seat or valve problems on Imprezas, barring phsyical damage from cambelt or big end failures. Even on big BHP engines, so it can be said this part of the engine is not prone to any issues.
The only issues I've come across on LPG vehicle is mainly down to the installation itself, or bad ignition components. The high RON needs the coilpacks, leads and spark plugs to be 100% otherwise it causes all sorts of issues - worst case was on a Rangie V8 suffering inlet backfires, killing MAFs and exploding the airbox - all due to some old ignition leads. Even then it didn't do any engine damage.
29 October 2009, 05:54 PM
#28
fordrsrick is a good frend of mine and i am still punishing him for smashing into the back of me on the way back from scooby clinic a couple of weeks ago like a mupet.
as for lpg being a good idea to wind the boost up due to it being higher ron thats never going to happen you hav'nt seen how it runs on ricks car.
i think rick is likely to incure problems whith his engine not due to the lpg but the cowboy conversion itself ie metal swarf in the boost pipes etc where they did'nt bother to remove the inlet manifold when fitting it.
as for lpg being a good idea to wind the boost up due to it being higher ron thats never going to happen you hav'nt seen how it runs on ricks car.
i think rick is likely to incure problems whith his engine not due to the lpg but the cowboy conversion itself ie metal swarf in the boost pipes etc where they did'nt bother to remove the inlet manifold when fitting it.
29 October 2009, 06:41 PM
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I wasn't having a go TingTong i had realised you were having a bit of banter.
From the sounds of how fordrsrick had described his running problems on the LPG i had kind of assumed it had been a 'rough' installation but as i havn't seen the car or the install i was trying to reserve judgment lol. This is why i had said to take it to someone different to have it properly checked and setup as from the sound of it whoever has set it up previously has not done a great job of it.
My reccomendation would be to keep the LPG and spend the cash you would spend having it removed on getting it properly checked and setup, maybe even see if the garage would be willing to split the cost of this rather than having it removed.
From the sounds of how fordrsrick had described his running problems on the LPG i had kind of assumed it had been a 'rough' installation but as i havn't seen the car or the install i was trying to reserve judgment lol. This is why i had said to take it to someone different to have it properly checked and setup as from the sound of it whoever has set it up previously has not done a great job of it.
My reccomendation would be to keep the LPG and spend the cash you would spend having it removed on getting it properly checked and setup, maybe even see if the garage would be willing to split the cost of this rather than having it removed.