Deep Singh

Could'nt agree more.There has been a group advert(from Subaru UK), for the P1 in Autocar for the last three months.In the latest Autocar there is a brand new P1(not demo or nearly new) advertised for £800 below list with a maindealer.I wonder if part of the reason is that they launched it too close to the release of the new shape.
Must disagree about insurance cost though,I'm paying twice the cost for my STi4 that I was quoted for a P1.Have I been shafted??????????

Lambo

I can't help noticing that Scooby dealers have a lot of hardly used P1's for sale and that Subaru/Prodrive are advertising new ones. I thought that they were only making a 1000 of em and punters were climbing over each other to get hold of one
Has the market for this kind of motor dried up ? Same thing seems to be happening with the EVO 6.

ARRON BIRD

NO

obi

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Lambo:
<B>I can't help noticing that Scooby dealers have a lot of hardly used P1's for sale and that Subaru/Prodrive are advertising new ones. I thought that they were only making a 1000 of em and punters were climbing over each other to get hold of one
Has the market for this kind of motor dried up ? Same thing seems to be happening with the EVO 6.[/quote]

I decided to buy a P1 last Oct but work got in the way. When I started the process again last month not only were most of the P1's for sale then(41)still available, but they had been joined by another 37. They haven't even managed to sell all 1000 and I have been offered a new one by a Belgium dealer at sustantialy less than used. The problem is that whilst these cars are improvements on UK models they were attempts to match the power of imports and these imports are a lot cheaper. Buy an STI-5 or later for 19k with all the extra kit ie: climate control, better interior, spend 2.5k on tyres and shocks and own a better car. I have driven several of each and the STI version's are consistantly better and 10k cheaper! The downside...you must use 97Ron, but 10k + savings helps quite a lot here!
P1's are fine cars but just because they cost 30k doesn't mean they are worth 27-28k used. They are worth what the market pays and privately I was offered them as low as 21k. Posing as a seller of a friends P1 I approached 9 Subaru dealers. 7 not interested at all, 1 offered 20k an 1 would take it as part exchange on new WRX. This says it all. The insurance on the STI is a lot cheaper as well.

andy oakes

Obi, i tend to agree with you.. i currently run an STI 2 but am looking to up grade to a STI 4 can you give me any advice mate?? location and price guides.. cheers andy..

PaulMc

I am also looking to replace my UK MY97 in the next 3 to 4 months.
Again, I agree with what has been, but.... I want a 2 dr coupe with ABS!

Climate control would have been nice but hey, it's got A/C. Above all a car (P1) that has nearly 300Bhp does 155mph, 0-60 sub 5 secs, handles superbly and can mix it with Porsches, Ferraris et al for £30,000 is, to me, a bargain. this just makes the STi (even though no ABS) an absolute bargain. I just wouldn't buy a car nowadays without ABS and I would only look at the 2 drs.

What ever you buy, you will have fun!

Final note, P1 insurance for me aged 30, is being quoted at less than £900, an STi VI greater than £1000.


[This message has been edited by PaulMc (edited 16 February 2001).]

Lovejoy

Here is an idea. Have Prodrive and FHI modify them and ship them to the states and offer them as a special edition Prodrive/STi model. That would quench the blood thrist for more power and coupe. If the price were kept in the low 30's they would sell out. There are many people here that would shell out more for the older body style.....me included.

Lovejoy

Chins

Some good points on this post however a few are incorrect and we dont need the 100th STI vs P1 crap on here again.

Ive owned an STI V and a P1. The P1's insurance was lower.

Also when I sold my P1 three months ago I got nearly 27k - yes it had the brakes, exhaust and a nice Plate. The dealers say 21k because they dont want the car at that time. Wait untill all the new ones are sold.

I'm looking for a new car now to replace my S4.

Its also alright saying buy an STI V/VI, but there are not that many unmolested versions around.

Options are MY01, P1 again or an EVO VI.

The EVO VI is the same price as a P1. Phone Mitsubishi like I did 1 hour ago and they have whatever colour you want. Hardly rushing out of the showrooms. Now you can also get a discount/ free rally visit and a discount off list.

P1 - been there seen it done. Best Scooby Ive owned - one came past me yesterday with exhaust growling - that missing you feeling.

MY01 - looks the best value car to buy, but by the time Ive added brakes, wheels, spoiler, lower suspension and headlight, not cheap.

Still waiting for a bolt of lightning to hit and and tell me what to do.

Jonathan

pslewis

P1 has flopped big time

Some people think I am anti P1 - I am NOT - they just dont want to hear that a 2 door Impreza is NOT worth £31k ..... well as I predicted last October - by spring they will have to give them away at about £21-24K - it would appear as if that is too much still!!!!! oh dear!

Its still a great car - but try getting decent money for it - as is stated above, even Subaru dealers dont want to know .... that says it all really

pete

Renrag

It's the greatest thing since sliced bread. I've got one, I'm keeping it, I want another one, why I haven't got a clue, but I do.
Put the demand/supply down to timing/marketing/price and a lot of people who can't make their mind up 'cos they're spoiled for choice - none of which are my problem. I'm just Soooooooo glad I've got the best scoob ever built cos I've tried the rest inc 22B and RB5.
If the market runs in your favour buy one or even two.

Alan McCaskie

To an extent I agree with Lambo. We all remember the days 10 years ago when hot hatches became difficult to insure let alone Cosworths/Imprezas. We are driving enthusiasts but unlike "real" sports cars like TVR et al (you know what I mean)the age profile of the drivers of Scoobs/Evos I think is lower and equally importantly the people who desire to own these cars is lower than that for TVR etc. You have a car that appeals to a younger audience but that is becoming increasingly difficult to insure at acceptable cost. I think it is a worrying trend as increasing insurance costs drives younger potential buyers away whereas more established sports car manufacturers have an arguably older and better off client base to start with therefore less exposed to the vagaries of the insurance market etc.

Just my shillingsworth.

Lambo

Very good point Alan, as you say not many 20 somethings can afford 30k and those are the people that really want one. Whilst the P1 is probably the 'ultimate' UK Impreza, the age group of customers that can afford to buy and run it I would guess to be 35 to 50 and at that age other factors apply such as a family and DIY so practicality i.e. 5 doors, and with todays anti-speeding lobby a car that has a certain amount of q-carness, whereas the P1 ( and EVO ) are 'look at me I'm enormous'.
Perhaps there is a market for a standard looking 4/5 door with all the Prodrive mechanicles for 25k.

Chins

Damn I forgot to add my Pete Lewis disclaimer.


Pete

Sure you dont have a pager alert on the P1 word.

If you can tell me where I can get my cheap P1 from. I hear all these figures, but cant find them

Jonathan

GCollier

I suspect a lot of it is to do with "image", and that most people with 30K+ to spend want a piece of jewellry to adorn themselves with, as well as (or instead of) a car to drive. There's no shortage of boxsters, 911's and 330Ci's near where I work, but I think I've only ever seen one P1 - so the money is definitely around. The scoob has always been sold and reviewed as THE performance bargain, i.e. something cheap'n'cheerful. The P1 could just be a failed attempt to move "up market".

I don't know why people harp on so much about insurance, as I can't think that puts many people off buying. When I got a quote for a P1 a couple of months ago, it was £750 - only a couple of hundred more than a 330i.

Gary.

PeteC

I must be living on a different planet! I don't regard myself as being hard up (80k+ including bonus, 20k mortgage, and no kids) but I thought the standard MY00 was expensive enough - too expensive, in fact, which is why I got one from Holland!

And yet you guys talk about it as if it was loose change! I would certainly love a P1, but am not prepared to spend that amount of dosh. Unless the lottery comes up, of course!

JoeyDeacon

I completely agree with GCollier. If I had £30,000 plus to spend on a car I wouldn't be looking at a P1 (or an Evo VI for that matter). I bought my current car (MY00) because I feel its the best new car I could get for the money. Compared to the Mondeo ST200 and the Vectra V6 it is a far better car.

When you start talking over £30,000 You are into Porsche Boxster, BMW 330 Convertible, Audi TT Convertible 225 etc. money. Be honest with yourself, which of these give out the right image and look like they cost the money??

The problem is that these cars are fantastic value in Japan where you can buy them for a fraction of the price they are here.

I personally feel Subaru have now completely lost the plot with the New Age Impreza and there is no way I would spend £31,000 on an STi version which to the untrained eye looks no different. I have done the whole Impreza thing now and If I had to choose a new car tomorrow I think I would go for the Honda s2000.

paulmon

Alright then what would you get ? Take the following constraints and lets see what we come up with.

Cars must fit into the following:

£25-32K not a penny over
Must be new or nearly new (less than 12 Months old)
Must be a UK car (No STi's, Imported R34, etc..)
Car can be modified providing it does not null the manufacturers warranty.
It has to be your day to day car.

Sorry forgot to mention, there has to be enough room in the back to fit a child seat.


I have had to use these guidelines when selecting my new car, I have, for the last 12 months studied all the magazine articles, visited all the show rooms and I ended up with a list of 4 cars.

P1
EVO VI
330 Ci
TT 225

Regards
Paul


[This message has been edited by paulmon (edited 16 February 2001).]

[This message has been edited by paulmon (edited 16 February 2001).]

IntegraR

Around the £30 000 mark, all the cars you buy are going to have ability, so choice becomes more image based, and against some of the more desirable marques, Subaru just dont have a competitive enough badge offering, regardless of how good the car is.


Edit: answer to paulmons question:
TVR Cerbera
Porsche Boxster
Lotus Exige
Honda S2000

Though Im not concerned about badges (hence I drive a Honda), so the P1 is ultra desirable to me, just wish I had £30 000 to spend, Id happily take one off Subaru's hands.



[This message has been edited by IntegraR (edited 16 February 2001).]

paulmon

Look's like me and Joey were on the same wavelength.

Joey, how come I dont see you on Blue Peter any more.

Paul

paulmon

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by IntegraR:
<B>Around the £30 000 mark, all the cars you buy are going to have ability, so choice becomes more image based, and against some of the more desirable marques, Subaru just dont have a competitive enough badge offering, regardless of how good the car is.[/quote]


The issue of image only becomes a problem if you are bothered about the image you potray. The argument you give can be used for every car on the market, why do people on this board drive Impreza's instead of a 318Ci or an Audi A3, they all have a different image. Given the choice of VW Golf or a Seat, 90% of people would choose the Golf even though they are virtually the same car.

Image is not everything to everybody.

Regards
Paul

simonburton

Having had 3 series BM's for last 6 years, including M3 Evos and Alpinas, I took the plunge in December and bought a P1, having cancelled an order for a new M3.

Yes the M3 may have a better quality interior, more toys and better residuals (???), but I moved away from BMW to a Scooby for what I perceived to be more driver enjoyment and involvement (and to save approx. £13K)

The P1 is everything I expected and more, but it is not to everyones taste or budget. The harsh ride, basic interior and performance suit me just fine.

I realise that the Scooby bubble may have burst and that dealers are not buying at favourable prices, but who cares, most P1 owners have only recently purchased, and residuals are not a concern at the moment.

I could have bought a Boxster, TVR etc etc, but firmly beleive that the P1 gives me ample performance, reliabilty and some practicallity, along with, dare I say it, value for money.

simon

PS No, I havn't fitted gold alloys, although I think they look pretty good.

Bernmc3

Anyone interested in selling their P1 should get hold of Listers Subaru (Tim, I think). They were prepared to take mine as an outright sale for a reasonable price (for a dealer), or to do a sale or return. I had found a nice Jag XJR Supercharged, so I just part/exed it with the Jag dealer, who sold it to Listers. Good blokes.

ALL Scoobs are currently worth squat - so many on the market I guess. Anyone looking to sell or part/ex had better be prepared to cry! I'd hang on to it if possible - the new one is a piece of rubbish!

JoeyDeacon

Paulmon,

You don't see me on Blue Peter anymore because that Simon Groom had me evicted from the special disabled home they had built for me using the Bring and Buy sale money and sold it to property developers before he left...

If I had 32 Grand to spend on a brand spanking new car I would go and buy a Porsche Boxster. The 2.7 Manual Boxster costs £ £31450 And Arctic Silver Metallic costs an additional £745, which means I have gone slightly over budget at £32,195.

If I wanted Aircon, Leather seats etc as well (Which I don't) I would get an Audi TT 225 Convertible.

OK so it is nowhere near as fast as a P1 or STI7 but then what the hell!!

GCollier

Joey,

Have you driven either of those cars? You may change your mind about parting with 30K+ if you did....unless expensive jewellrey is your thing

Gary.

JoeyDeacon

GCollier,

I have to admit that I haven't driven either of these cars and I am not into expensive jewlery either (Don't even own a watch ).

I don't care about practicality as I don't have any kids or need to move anything about and I rarely (less than once a month) travel on motorways. I have a 5 mile journey to work and probably do about 10,000 miles a year.

It's just I have done the whole Impreza thing now and to be honest with you although I might like to think I am the sort of person than needs a car like the Impreza because I am such a hardcore on the limit driver I very rarely get to use any of its abilities. When I am driving in stop start traffic I might as well be driving anything.

The Impreza bubble has burst now (the New Age Impreza hasn't really helped) and its not the car of the moment anymore (Although it is still a damn fine car). Falling risiduals and higher insurance are starting to remind me of the whole early 90's situation with the Cosworths although I really hope this doesn't happen. Maybe the Impreza is a victim of its own richly deserved success??. When you drive your car what sort of people do you get attention/admiration from?? Call me a snob but are these really the sort of people you wish to associate with.

I just fancy owning a two seater convertible for a while and the MX5, MR2, MGF etc are way too girly.

Asbestos flame suit at the ready!

Sonic Boom

The P1 is a fantastic car. The only mistake that Subaru made with this model is price.

Basically IM have been snubbing the "grey" import market for the past few years. They finally realised that there was a market for the Type R in the UK, and so was born the P1.

However, they made a huge mistake by setting the retail price at £32,000 (ish)

Why ? Why ? Why ? If they had stuck to the same price as the STi5 Type R, which is basically the same car, at £28,000, people would have been biting the dealers arms off to get hold of them.

There is a psychological aspect to buying cars. Being over the £30,000 mark, is a barrier. We all know we tend to set a limit when buying a new car, and usually we tend to go over this. But paying £4,000 over the STi5 price for the "Stamp of approval" from IM seems too much.

If the P1 had been released at £28,000 I would have gone for one.

Anyway, it is a shame.

Sonic

P.S. No, I am no psychologist......... but after eating I chew orbit sugar free gum..

wilf

I agree with the last post and am awaitign eagerly until I can snap up a P1 for "4k secondhand.

Those who reckon Boxster and TT are a better buy don't even belong on this thread. I had use of a Boxster over Xmas and back to back with my MY00 turbo the turbo was quicker and better fun and oh yes 15k less expensive. Seems like a lot of money for the image enhancement of driving a porsche.

IntegraR

Wilf, its not so much that anyone would choose the aforementioned cars before the P1, its just an explaination as to why we think the P1 isnt selling well.
Not saying that the Boxster etc are better, but for the greater public, it is percieved as such, so when Joe Public pulls out his wallet, he'd rather "invest" in what the Porsche (or whatever)marque has to offer, so the P1 is battling against that sort of bias.

pslewis

Just seen an advert for a Saab Turbo Auto Convertible, full Saab bodykit, leather, demo miles, electric hood and everything else, climate control, £27000. This is one damn fine car.

I own a scooby and love them and I love the P1

BUT................................

P1 verses that Saab above???????????? come on - we all know where the smart money will go (some misguided soul will probably say the P1!!! har har bl00dy har!! ) we are talking different class - the P1 can't hack it in this company - but it would be better than anything else at around £22K

Pete

Trout

iTrader: (1)

Jonathan,

a couple of questions -

You don't list a MY01 STi - any special reason why other than the £32k price tag

Are you still waiting for an M3.


My only comment on the P1 thing is that high demand for the STi in Japan (they can't build the 6-speed box fast enough) and the lack of ability to shift P1s that were built to a target margin, means that for those of use that are interested we will have to wait an extra year for a UK legitimate STi MY01 - and my mouth is already watering

R