fent

iTrader: (1)

As my daily drive involves 45 mins each way in slow moving traffic I have wondered if this could be something to consider.
I have a 53 plate wrx, the only mods are cosmetic ones so all as Subaru intended there.
I have heard that it could be £2000 for the conversion and after that approx 50p per litre for autogas. In my first year of scooby ownership I will probably spend over £2600 on petrol so it has got me thinking.
I really do not know much about the technical side and I don't really know how well it is suited to such a car but if the cost savings are to be believed it could be worth looking into.
obviously it depends on how long I intend keeping the car, say 4 years.



I use my wrx everyday for the commute and also camping trips, days out etc. For fun I have a westfield so the scoob is not seen as a toy really

Thinking is, the more I spent on fuel, the less I have to upgrade the scoob and westy

what do you lot think.

joey_turbo

iTrader: (26)

I think its worth doing, but not as good if you are paying 2 grand to have it done.

Check out this site for more info: Scooby LPG

scoobzie

sell the scoob if you cant afford it there are plenty about to get another one

scooby546

iTrader: (1)

I reckon the price of LPG will only keep rising - I had a chat to a guy recently who advised against converting a 4.6 range rover, as it wouldn't last long enough to provide any return on the investment - plus there's the added issue of not being able to start it on LPG so you still have to buy some petrol...

fent

iTrader: (1)

Firstly, I aint selling the scoob. It makes my 45 mins each way commute much more enjoyable than before (previously a peugeot 306 diesel HDI), even if I barely reach 40mph the crawling along in traffic is great as the burbling exhaust sounds spot on.
It's not that I can't afford the fuel, but after owning a 50mpg diesel for the last 6 years I can see for the first time that lpg may be a benefit (no loss of power, cleaner burning and half the price apparently). Assuming that the price of gas remains much lower than petrol and that after the 3 years where it is only going to rise by 1p or something like that it would pay for itself in 2 years?
Anyway, I have plenty of time to think it over, still plenty to do on my house first before I can spend that sort of monay on the car

oxscooby

iTrader: (1)

I had a vw bora 2.8 4motion running on a prins sequential lpg system and you could definitely notice a difference in performance, although only slight you could feel it. Also, although lpg is cheaper per litre, the car would do less mpg on lpg. Its one of those things though, weigh up the pros and cons and do whatever suits you.

fent

iTrader: (1)

OOh thats interesting. I am only going on what the sales pitch is for this and you are led to believe that performance is unaffected. I was also not aware of the lower mpg. So far the only disadvantage I was aware of was the install costs.
I think I will save my cash if that is the case, spend it on some bling instead

PantsUK

iTrader: (1)

I've been looking into exactly this for a couple of months and I think I may go ahead.

There are lots of things to take into account but as I do 20-30k per year I'll get my money back quickly.

Performance should be minimal if completed correctly (high enough spec of component parts) and although it will use a bit more fuel in the grand scheme of things it's a massive saving.

With regards it using fuel on startup that's only when the engine is cold so most people say a tank of fuel lasts them a couple of months, far better than the twice weekly fillups I do.

LPG has a tax break on it for the next 4-5 years so you'd need to make back any costs within that period.

LPG is known as a dry fuel and as such doesn't lubricate the engine so you'll need to buy a system with added lube to combat that and ensure no engine damage.

I personally will have paid for my conversion within a year easily which means next year I'll be running my 300hp at the wheels impreza for the price of a diesel.!!!!

With regards performance they all have a switch so if you did notice a drop in performance for whatever reason and decided you wanted to go for a thrash you can switch it back to vpower or whatever you run!

The only real downer I see is not having a spare wheel and not being able to use the chunnel!
....

Just a boot note - it's not about not being able to afford a scooby, but personally I'd rather spend the thousands I save on uprating other areas of the car

hodgy0_2

I had my old RR 4.2 converted back in 2000 (just before the fuel protests)

and it was amazing -- made owning and running it a joy, if only for the fact that you didnt see the fuel guage dropping all the time, (i worked out the car did 29mpg which was pretty good imo)

depending on the conversion you can start you car on LPG (I went for 2 years without ever buying a drop of petrol for it)

LPG gives, pro rata better perfomance in stop/start driving than motorway cruising

check if you are near a commercial supplier like Welcome to Flogas LPG supplier for the UK -- you can get discounts over the forcourt price

obviously the juicer the car the quicker the payback

Tinley Tech Limited Autogas conversion equipment gives good advice

and yes you will need to lube the valves -- but on the plus side you can extend oil changes, I would change the RR oil at 8/9k and it would come out gold!!!

oh and one last point get the biggest tank you can, depending on the outside air temp you can only fill to 80% of capacity

I had a whopping 120ltr tank -- but it would take ages to fill

David Lock

Many conversion companies use "Flash Lube" as a means of providing lubrication. You just need to check and top up the oil reservoir as required.

Some engines are susceptible to the hotter running of LPG and valves can burn out. Particularly Hondas and Fords. I haven't heard any adverse reports about Subaru engines though. But check what guarantee the company provide against such problems.

I think it is well worth it for any high mileage gas guzzler.

dl

fent

iTrader: (1)

Just a boot note - it's not about not being able to afford a scooby, but personally I'd rather spend the thousands I save on uprating other areas of the car [/quote]

That is exactly my point. it's not that i ca't afford the fuel, i did my sums before buying the car as i knew costs would go up after being used to 50mpg. I just think if lpg only offers benefits then why pay so much for petrol.

I want to change my westfield engine in a couple of years (poss 200bhp duratech - nice in a 600kg car). teh savings could go towards that instead of the fookin governments pockets.

Yep, you may loose some power on lpg but it is switchable as you say.

The westy doesn't have a spare wheel just a can of foam, not been a problem in the last 3 year (guess what's going to happen to me on the way home tonight)

Good to have some + & - responses, cheers

Norman Dog

iTrader: (1)

I was talking to the driver of our LPG supply company at work and he reckons a lot of people with LPG cars now get the suff from a 'mate' with their own business, making it fuel duty free and able to reclaim the VAT.
Works out somewhere in the region of 15p per litre.

I'd be pretty doubtful about the legality of it, but the customs can hardly dip your tank, as they can with red diesel, can they?

subaru-impreza-2000

I own a 2ltr gx bugeye which is gas converted, i think it's well worth it, although i bought my car with it already fitted, which saved me a massive 1500. it's worth buying a car with the gas conversion already fitted me thinks, because i bought my bug for around 2k and the actual conversion cost the guy 1500pounds, so i dont think its really worth you spending that kind of money getting it done, unless your planning on keeping the car for many of years, and another thing is that when it comes to selling a gas converted subaru, there not very popular, lol but it sure as hell does give me good fuel economy, 18quid gives me a full tank

Fat Boy

have a friend who had it done on his bugeye wagon and had all sorts of (head) problems which led to him selling the car in the end

scotty01

I have used an factory LPG van daily for the last 9 months and it's fookin ****e! The coil packs broke down with the heat in less than 30000miles! They cough and splutter at junctions and when putting the foot down when changing gears, the fuel economy is poor IE: 200miles and it needs refilled thats daily for me! Great for airmiles though
I would never have it by choice in a road car! No matter how cheap the fuel is. They are crap!!

EddScott

Well I'm currently looking for Jeep Cherokee 4L on LPG.

The 4L engine seems to take LPG no problem. Looking for a late model with multipoint gas system. Local garage sells it for 46p a litre. A mate does 135 miles on less than £25 from a 4L engine. Big engine cars take the conversion better than small engines. V8s especially rover V8 seem to cope very well with a good conversion.

I would buy a car with LPG already fitted BUT make sure you get the full details of the conversion and who did it because I've heard some right horror stories with bodge jobs.

chart pattern

Hi Fent, if you haven't already look at https://www.scoobynet.com/general-te...nning-gas.html post 5; I had my car for sale for a while as was going to get a Fozzy STi, but that fell through so kept the impreza; and glad i did!!

There is definately a power shortage when you boot it, the blurb is wrong. Also, there are conversions and there are conversions; a crap one (cheap) will undoubtedly give a crap result. It is now18m since i had mine done and no worries at all, in fact we converted my wife's car as well (XC70). Recoup costs are entirly down to your mileage and your costings, no-one elses, you will have to do the calculation; for me it was a no brainer; and like i said, you can always push the button back to petrol.

re your post 11, with the amount saved, i am decatting (because you can with gas) and remapping, and I love the fact that you have 2 cars in one; one for steady boring driving and your original impreza as well.

Having said all that, £2k is way too much; £1600-1700 will get you a top notch conversion

500

Both the mrs and myself both run LPG vehicles as our daily drives and have done for the past couple of years as mine is my work vehicle and she does a 90+ miles/day commute

We've had her last two converted when we got them (VW Touareg and now a BMW 545i), and we have had 3 already converted vehicles (Vectra SRI, Landrover discovery and now my Chevrolet Astro). We have loved the pence/mile cost and although there is a slight drop in performance, it's not too bad.

Subarus do need the flashlube, it's not a major hassle though. If you are keeping it for a few years, I'd say get it done, you won't look back!

scoobyboy

the problem subarus suffer with is the valve clearance closing up on the exhaust valves, if you order a brand new subaru with lpg then the heads are modified at the time of build to help cope with the problem.
subaru also say that as part of the servicing of an lpg car you have to check the valve clearance every service so what you save in fuel you lose on service costs.
all that aside though the kit subaru use is very good and you can't even tell when it has switched over fuels like some kits.

PantsUK

iTrader: (1)

re the above post ... the kits subaru supply are BRC kits and they are added extra rather than incorporated into the original build (so say BRC anyway).

The lpg service is about £50 I've been quoted so 1 tank of fuel every 10k.

PantsUK

iTrader: (1)

The main problem seems to be providing enough fuel (at full boost 350hp+) without it consuming more than petrol would therefore killing any cost saving (although only when you need to boot it). Most high power LPG cars are 6 cylinders+ which by all accounts is much easier.

My 1st Impreza

I swapped my MK2 Escort 4dr for an LPG 98 Impreza Sport. I to had drive 100 miles to get Impreza, it cost me £15 petrol @70 mph, took ages (4spd). It cost £10 to come back in the scooby @ 90 mph. The tank sits right behind the rear seat, so space saver wheel sits in original well, and i still have enough room for a kids buggy. Shop around for best price of instastallation, and get the companies to compete against each other. I did that with my Chrysler Voyager, Aran New at Green fuel Co (01225 721915) gave me the best deal on an automatic BRC system (mpv starts on fuel, then automaticaly kicks to LPG when engine is warm enough, then kicks back to fuel should you run out of LPG), Lube, and they did a complete check of the Scooby system, + warranty in UK & Europe and 1000 miles check/service, £1250. Aran rekons that every company that instals a BRC kit, has to buy them form him. It costs me £12 to fill LPG tank and i can do over 110 motorway miles @ 90mph+, and a few less miles around town. Get the filler cap put in on the passenger side rear 1/4 panel, i park in the middle of the pumps, do the LPG, then round to drivers side for the V power.

scoobyboy

i'm not saying the kit is added at factory it isn't it's added in this country but at the time of order if it is specified to be an lpg car then subaru make it with different valves and valve seats ready for the kit to be added

PantsUK

iTrader: (1)

Don't think you're right mate but furry muff!

fent

iTrader: (1)

My thinking is using the lpg when crawling to work and switching back to petrol when having fun so as long as there are no problems with the system i can live with a little loss of power as you can always switch back.
I would just want to make sure that if the conversion is done there are no problems caused whether on lpg or petrol. I really don't want to try and save a few quid here and ruin the car as it seems there are a few horror stories. At least if I had the coversion doen rather than buying one already done I could choose where i take it.

Took it out for a good run on Saturday with my mates STI. Getting used to how to drive it now and really enjoyed it. Must remember that it dont's stop as fast as my westfield though LOL.

scoobyboy

if i'm wrong then subaru wouldn't sell lpg valves or heads which they do because i've also had to swap heads and valves over on a forester that had the official kit fitted after it had been sold via a dealer. in 12k the exhaust valve clearance had shut right up causing a missfire but luckily subaru agreed to stump the cost of the replacment parts.

lordharding

iTrader: (1)

Well i have just had the new deisel Imprezafor 3 weeks now and i can say its the 2nd best car i have ever owned and i still own my favourite classic too !!

averaging 43 mpg as Im having lots of fun at the moment

gsw

With LPG systems you will get what you pay for , 2k for the best kit fitted by a respected installer is well worth it.

If set up well you can make some good power gains when fitting LPG to turbo charged engines, we used to have an EVO 8 mr that made a healthy 333 bhp on gas and 315 on petrol my old Aristo v300 twin turbo made more power on gas than petrol and both were noticeably better when running on LPG.

I have converted nearly all the different Subaru engines and the turbos dont seem to suffer valve problems like the N/A engines do so i would say its up to your self if you wanted a flash lube system but if you have a drip feed type it will do nothing when the engines making boost so to make sure you would need one that is force fed to over come the boost pressure and these as far as i am aware are are only available with Prins and BRC systems and will add an extra cost to the conversion but these are specific to the kits and will add the correct amount and save you money on the lube as its not cheap at £15 per liter.

Kit wise i would only recommend a BRC system , these are by far the best kits for turbo engines and if you have a fast kit fitted you have the option of adding a ignition control module and make the most of what LPG has to offer.

I will be converting my own V4 STI over the coming weeks using a BRC system, i wasnt going to bother as it was only being used as a toy but now its out and about daily putting petrol in it has become boring and expensive so LPG is the way to go.

Problems are usual down to poor fitting and the wrong kits being fitted , other down sides are the impreza has a small and shallow wheel well so getting a decent capacity tank in there usually means the boot carpet needs to be raised to make it all look neat but there is all ways the option of a cylinder tank behind the seats to get a larger capacity.

If you have a well fitted and set up conversion you wont know it there if you have a bad one you will know its there every time it switches over.

scoobyboy

it is a nice set up on the subarus none of them horrid copper pipes anywhere and it's extremely smooth on the change over.