Richard F

Does anyone know the definitive word on temporary traffic lights? If I'm stuck at some roadworks controlled by temporary lights and they're on red, if I can see the other side and can make it through without causing any other driver to slow down etc, is it legally allowed to drive through a red light?

Alternatively, what is the likely view of a copper (ie would they probably let you off even if the law says not too)?

Apologies if this has been covered before...

Cheers

Richard

Dave T-S

You're nicked sonny.......

No reason I can think of unless the lights are defective and stuck on red. And only then would you be sure to get away with it if you were waved through by the police or a duly elected representative of the bods that put the lights there in the first place.

fast bloke

got pulled for this before...
If the lights stay on red for a reasonable amount of time, and you think that you can cross the lights without causing inconvienence for any other road user you can proceed with extreme caution.
Nothing specifies what reasonable is (could be 2 hours or 3 minutes) so you better be 100% sure that they are not working. If you get pulled and the lights go gree 2 minutes later, you're nicked sonny.
Also, if you cause an accident while doing this, it is your fault

Paul M

I think the law, is you are ONLY allowed to legally pass through a red traffic signal, when instructed to by a member of the law.
Any other method and it's in your own hands.
PS I once heard of an old geezer stuck ata set in Bournemouth one night that had failed on red, it was 4 hours before a police officer waved him through.
He'd never had an accident in 60 years of driving, seen thousands though!!

Stuart H

By the precise letter of the law says you don't go through it unless it's on green.

Authority to pass through a red signal can only come from a Constable <B>in uniform</B> (or Traffic Warden) or the duly appointed representative of the contractor when the lights are under manual control or have failed.

Richard F

Cool - thanks guys

Guess I'll have to get out of bed a bit earlier then...

DavidRB

Had this happen a couple of years ago.

I was held at a set of temporary lights for over ten minutes. The only reason I waited so long was that the lights were either side of a hump-backed bridge and it took me a while to summon up the guts to go over it!

I got to the other side to find a queue of equally frustrated cars.

Being the publically spirited guy that I am, I tried calling the number on the contractor's sign - answerphone, with a message to try another number or an emergency number. Guess what? Another answerphone and a never-answered mobile phone.

I left a message, but couldn't be bothered to pursue it further.

As fast bloke says, you'd better be certain that they're stuck before pulling out.

Dave T-S

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Stuart H:
<B>By the precise letter of the law says you don't go through it unless it's on green.

Authority to pass through a red signal can only come from a Constable in uniform</B> (or Traffic Warden) or the duly appointed representative of the contractor when the lights are under manual control or have failed.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

OI!!! Copycat - i'll have you for impersonating a civilian sonny!!!

chiark

Dave, the problem is that we ignore you. There's a browser enhancement available to filter all posts from Dave T-S...

Though this time you're in total agreement with Stuart, which makes me think that you've both got it wrong....

Dave T-S

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by chiark:
<B>Dave, the problem is that we ignore you. There's a browser enhancement available to filter all posts from Dave T-S...

Though this time you're in total agreement with Stuart, which makes me think that you've both got it wrong.... [/quote]

...so the browser enhancement doesn't work on your PC then...

Watch it laddie or you'll get my handbag - or i'll tell Pete Lewis you've got gold wheels on your car.....

PS - please don't drag Stuart down to my level.....

pslewis

I thought that you could legally go through temporary lights at red - but, you could be charged for without due care (or, worse, dangerous driving).

I dont think a charge of passing a red signal on temporary lights would stick?? but I bow to better judgement

Pete

chiark

Much as it pains me to say it, Dave is spot on on this one. Even Stuart backs him up.

Those are the facts, not "bloke down pub" says. As such, perhaps this thread should be locked? Or muppetised, as Dave has posted to it.

[This message has been edited by chiark (edited 01 February 2001).]

boomer

Sounds like time to install a "temporary traffic light" outside my house during the morning (rat run) rush hour

Plus a video camera for evidence of course!

mb

Dave T-S

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by chiark:
<B>Much as it pains me to say it, Dave is spot on on this one. Even Stuart backs him up.

Those are the facts, not "bloke down pub" says. As such, perhaps this thread should be locked? Or muppetised, as Dave has posted to it.

[This message has been edited by chiark (edited 01 February 2001).][/quote]


Hee Hee - Dave the Muppet thread killer strikes again.....

You can't cope when I make a serious post and even worse when i'm correct...

Mike@PD

Staurt H is right but you should always consider one thing, your Common Law Duty of Care. If you apply this test when contemplating you can often answer your own question.

Everyone has a Common Law Duty of Care to everyone else. Its OK going through the red lights and 'getting away with it'or doing 60 in a 30 limit. Trouble starts when you dont and somone suffers injury or loss of life.

The question both civil and criminal courts ask is:-

What would Mr Average think about someone driving through red lights or doing 60 in a 30?

Mr Average would think that its not right or clever therefore you would probaly be found guilty of negligence at the very least.

As SH will confirm, when your driving falls way and below that of a competent and careful driver you are looking at Sec 1 of the Road Traffic Act (Causing Death by Dangerous Driving - Prison)

Quite often and no matter how clever you think you are, it can be proved by the asking of one lethal question in interview.

Q Would you have done that on your driving test ?
R No
Q Why not
R I would have failed

Answer that and your going to be in deep trouble. Think about it !

Stuart H

Traffic signs, whether temporary or permenant may not be placed on or near a road unless the person who places them there is specificall authorised.

Under s64 Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 authorised persons include the local traffic authority, a police constable in uniform (or other person authorised by the Chief Constable) or any other person in the case of a temporary obstruction.

The temporary "stop/go" boards fall into the latter category.

carl

What about 'authorized to direct traffic'? Unless someone's in a uniform, how can you tell if they're authorized or a nutter out to cause trouble? A lot of my local council officers look like nutters...

TAZ 2414

I drove through London yesterday and about 3 cars at different lights all looked to the left saw there was no camera and proceeded straight through them...
I nearly had two cars go into the back on my Scooby (I only picked this one up on Saturday so I was watching closely) because I actually stopped at the lights!

Also of course White vans are allowed through red lights...

carl

I have noticed that 'light-jumping' is becoming more popular. When I had a 2 litre Saab I used to wait at the lights at the Stansted M11 roundabout (on the roundabout itself) and when they went green see if I could catch anyone up who'd jumped the reds coming off the motorway and hoot them. Of course, with the Scoob there's a serious danger of running into them.

I wouldn't mind, but some people leave it so late it's clear they're blatantly ignoring the lights rather than just being caught out by the change to red.

Dave T-S

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by carl:
<B>What about 'authorized to direct traffic'? Unless someone's in a uniform, how can you tell if they're authorized or a nutter out to cause trouble? A lot of my local council officers look like nutters...[/quote]

LOL

.....and a lot of nutters look like local council officers.....

Richard F

Hmmm point taken Mike but the situation I was eluding (sp?) to was if I'm driving to the station in the morning (I leave the house at 05:45), then there's little risk to other road users. Not justification in the eyes of the law I know but there's no way I'd contemplate driving through them at any other time and I would certainly not speed through them.

Richard F

Sorry, just remembered. It seems that some vehicles ARE allowed to drive through red lights... I remember approaching a set of lights at a junction one night just as they turned red. I noticed this ambulance (no lights or sirens) trundling down the road to stop at the light. All of a sudden, he puts his blue light on and drives through them. As soon as he was through he turned the light off and carried on going at his previous slow pace.

Mike@PD

The ambulance or any other emergency service should not abuse these situations by using any emegency equipment. Being a lateral thinker I must point out that ambulances do not always drive at 100 mph in an emerency i.e. spinal injuries etc. You should have made a complaint and then the circumstances would have been looked into. It still stands however that just because Mr X steals a Mars Bar it is not ok for you to do it !!!!

Richard F

No I totally agree, I was just pointing out how dodgy people can be! I did think about reporting him but didn't get the number as I was so amazed that he did it...

I'm fairly sure he wasn't on a call as I was the only car at the junction, it was the middle of the night and I was going straight on whereas he went right, thus not affecting me at all.

Anyway, I wouldn't necessarily run a red light (even a temp one) - I just wondered what the actual legalities of it was. The lights I was thinking of are right by the station entrance and I sat there for 3 mins when I could see it was clear. As soon as another car approached, they changed (obviously light activated).

carl

Following on, what is the situation with the legality of the (now quite rare) stop/go boards operated by blokes at either end of the roadworks. I thought they had no legal standing, as they are road directions being given by somebody not authorized to do so (police officer or traffic warden).

I saw some guy in no uniform whatsoever directing traffic at a roundabout. I ignored him -- how do I know if he's been trained properly in traffic management or if he's just trying to cause trouble?

Richard F

Oh dear, this must be the day for me dropping myself in it....

Some years ago I was directed the wrong way up a one way street by a council workman as the road had flooded (not too bad but they were emptying the drains).

Some time later I got a nice letter telling me I'd been sighted doing it and I was gonna have to go to court. I wrote back explaining the situation and soon after received a letter telling me that they weren't going to take it any further. Dunno if this necessarily answers your question but I think an "official" person can be ok to direct traffic under some circumstances.

mikefyfe

Not temporary red lights, but what is the legality if the lights have quite obviously got stuck/broken etc.

Waited in a huge queue of traffic in central London yesterday until peoples fustration got the better of them and we started, cautiously, to go through the red light. Lights still had not changed by the time I got to the front about 20 mins later!!!

Were we breaking the law?

What about insurance if there was a accident?

Mike

Gary Foster

Couple of weeks ago I found myself waiting in a right hand lane to go right. The set of lights in question had a filter light for turning right and a straight on type arrow for going straight on.

So I can only go right if the filter light is on .. problem is the bulb appears to have blown. Theres only me and a Police Van behind me here waiting. I'm terrified of running the light (as you can imagine). After about 5 minutes the police van flashed me a few times.

Didn't know what to do - have I misunderstood the lights, is he going to pull me if I go through the light, is it a setup (deep distrust). Anyway, I went and he followed me.

Would this qualify for being directed by a policeman in Uniform ? (He didn't stop me BTW thank God)

Gary