paddokx

I know there have been many posts on this subject but I am getting mixed information from different tuners.

Some are saying don't bother, will not make a big difference, some are saying do it without question.

I have a 2006 Spec C, Powerstation stage 4 (400bhp), the car is only used for odd trackdays & most of the time sits in the garage (not a daily driver).

One tuner advised most of the time you run 15 mins round a track then come in & let the car cool down, so power loss will not be that much.

I am not hardcore & even on track do not thrash the living day lights out of the car.

Your thoughts or experience would be very much appreciated

SkullFudge

Maybe it would pay having a FMIC if you were intending further mods in the future.

Timur 008

iTrader: (2)

I'd say if your running anything over 350+ horses then i'd get a front mount installed & a remap.. it will be cooler for the engine (& the looks;-) also your torque figures should go up plus you wont suffer from heat soak. Or if not i'd say you have water spray installed on your TMIC if it has not got one already.

ps. If you could afford to keep a Spec C with 400horses for odd track days i'm sure you could get a specialist to install a FMIC easily i'd say do it.. as i noticed a massive difference when installing a FMIC on mine

paddokx

Hi Timur

What where the main differences you noticed ??

Did you have yours re-mapped after it was fitted & what where the results in bhp & torque ?

Who did your work ? I was looking at Powerstation !!

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

Have a word with some specialists like Andy Forrest and Litchfield to see what they do on their own cars. A few minutes on the phone will save a lot of bb misinformation imho.

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

In a new age STi not regularly tracked or thrashed, the Std intercooler should suffice.

An FMIC would be more effective at keeping the temps down though, no question. Harvey has done a lot of research on this issue and, unlike many, including me, who post on this matter, has the data to back up the claims!

Best approach would be to speak to your mapper who can monitor what the temps are doing under the kind of useage you subject the car to and advise from there.

Fitting an FMIC made a big difference to my classic; I wouldn't go back to TMIC. It is quite a big job though and supporting mods are required, you also need to be prepared for your bumper to get hacked back a bit!

Ns04

Timur 008

iTrader: (2)

Hi paddokx
TMIC are good don't get me wrong (as Subaru would have gone down that route) but for big BHP cars & racing cars they do put FMIC on (even on their rally cars All the specialists mentioned are all v good mentioned above been to Powerstation for an old Pulsar i had & Litchfield for Scooby work also like the Scooby Clinic - i go their now as i like the work they do their my car is now pushing 345bhp & the torque is around 330lb & before it was around 290bhp (i think before the intercooler & remap) In all honesty i think the TMIC are good for off the line snappy instant boost rides running around 300ponies mark where as the FMIC cars seem to feel bit smoother of the line with a more torquey feel to it. I know this as i have done this to 3 of my previous cars Pulsar, Evo & now WRX STI

Timur 008

iTrader: (2)

Yep do what you like.. as you say your running 400bhp & if the car is treating you fine then don't worry too much. Specially if you don't suffer the heat soak problems of a TMIC as your podding around the track for short periods of time then not really worth it as the 400bhp mark is blooming good as it is But if you want to be adventurious as see how it is & responds with FMIC then go for it like i say you should gain more lbs of torque with a good map & feels more smoother of the line & defo don't need to worry how many minutes your tracking the car as heat soak shouldn't be a problem.

Shaun

For your level and use stick with the standard TMIC on your Spec C. Anyone that tells you NEED a TMIC needs filling in!

dunx

iTrader: (3)

Sounds like you don't need one, I found my car wilted on the road after about 20 miles of abuse in hot weather, yes in the U.K., honest ! 2nd mod was to fit an FMIC and then the re-map.

dunx

paddokx

Hi Shaun

Interesting !!!

What are your thoughts on a FMIC.

I was advised by my local tuner who seems to be very knowledgeable & has done rallying/trackdays etc all his life, not to bother. He felt it was a waste of money, very honest I thought !!!! as above he said you should only be doing 10-15 mins on track, a good slow lap then in to cool down, which is what I do.

Whenever you see the Litchfield/Powerstation cars they all wear a FMIC, Powerstation highly recommended one although they have not bothered phoning me back regarding some other work I was considering, they must be very busy !!!!

I am not a horsepower/Torque freak, I am more concerned about reliablity & looking after the engine the best I can.

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Are you sure? the 415bhp 2.5ltr Type 25 runs a top mount

Tony

Timur 008

iTrader: (2)

this shows a racing version of theirs shows a Type 25 & has a FMIC
http://www.type-25.co.uk/images/cont.../engine_10.jpg & http://www.type-25.co.uk/images/cont.../engine_11.jpg
& the Type 25 TMIC version has a 12 Litre Intercooler water spray bottle to keep the temperature down

also if i was doing a track day i personally would not want to think about heat soak etc.. or think about pulling in to cool it down then go out again when it has but everyone is different i suppose i like my FMIC & with an added water spray function button at hand it stays nice & cool

paddokx

Hi Tony

Your right ! & Jason Plato liked it !!!!!!

Emailed Andy Forest for his advice, I hope he will be mapping my car soon (depending on FMIC)

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

The 12 ltr tank in the boot is because the car is based on a Spec C, which comes with the 12 ltr tank in the boot as standard and heat soak on one of these cars is very minimal as the second you start driving its pushing lots of cold air through that intercooler, and as they use the tmic on the road car (not the race tuned version) even on their 400bhp package, and the STI TMIC is more than capable at 400bhp they run it (as do many people )

Tony

gussy

iTrader: (2)

Paddox I will put my views into the pot the set up you have makes it a perfect car for trackdays general driving why change from what works as has been said you could go down the route of fmic etc and then end up with a car thats a pita and an ongoing cost good for pub talk tho (my car has got xyz bhp but it takes 300 yards before it comes on boost) if you know what I mean.The package you have now is perfect for your needs from what you describe.

Timur 008

iTrader: (2)

yeah the STI TMIC is capable of running 400bhp but seeing the FMIC on the track car answers a few questions for me which one is better for racing in if it was not necessary i doubt they would do it for the track car & just run their road car

gussy

iTrader: (2)

Timur there is another question that has to be answered on this subject looking at it on a time scale how long do the cars that have fmic/mods against a tweeked proven package spend in the garage with ongoing costs.Mine is serviced a little bit more than most but on track gets a good caneing and its never let me down (touchwood) a good example of the spec-c's credentials in standard form is the Nurburgring vid in the whole lap I dont think the car dropped below 6,000 which must say something for the top mount doing its job

Shaun

Dunx,
When I had the original TMIC on my old Spec C engine (370bhp) it was fine. I even competed in this spec for four events. ScoobyLive 2006, TOTB 2006, Tuner GP 2006 and Time Attack. I never had one problem with reliability. With a twin scroll response is key..... I could see no advantage on using a FMIC for that stage of tune, to cost me money and potentially have an affect on response. Even if it lost me 20bhp on a very hot and continuous circuit event..... in the grand scheme of things that is nothing imo.

Ask AndyF how long he stuck with TMIC's on his cars.

Paddokx,
Horse for courses.... FMIC certainly have their uses, especially when the TMIC is crap for it's intended application. I TRULY believe that you would not be at that problem area for your intended use, power level and car spec.

I do however have a FMIC now.... but the car is way too different (and it's intended use) to yours to show any matching reference.

FMIC are certainly NOT a waste of money, that is stupid to say that. They certainly have their uses and are good at doing what they need to do. Unfortunately the position of the inlet and turbo requires extra length of pipework, which does slow down response..... you can not get away from that if the install is with standard inlet etc.

A FMIC is not a bad thing, and if you want to get one than by all means do so. Personally I do not think you will get any real benefit at your power level and use for the expense. Your money and your choice though.

The Standard Newage TMIC WILL cope with up to 450bhp without any worrying issues.

Timur 008,
This has got nothing to do with race cars...... do you run a baffled sump, because any decent race car would!

Timur 008

iTrader: (2)

Gussy i'm not sure what your driving? Type 25? TMIC or FMIC? but from what i say from previous post & personal experiance the TMIC is brilliant & does its job fine as if not Subaru would have followed the Mitsubishi route & went only FMIC with their new top cars like the Evo's etc.. For me having a FMIC installed on the car it does feel & act differently (in a good way) but my main reason is by having a FMIC is to get more air thrown at the I/C as on top it will get less cool air (i'm sure) & by seeing top rallying cars http://expn.go.com/08/ral/080520_Wire_Pastranacar-H.jpg having FMIC's i'm its something proven for racing around in.. considering on going garage costs i don't think an I/C is going to hurt your wallet much. One way to test this properly is by someone having a Type 25 with an FMIC installed & seeing how the BHP figures come up against the TMIC version & reliabilty etc.. as you say this can be a nice long pub chat

paddokx

Gussy, i guess the point you are making is the more mods you do, the more time it ends up in the garage for one thing or another ! known as a bottomless pit !!!!!!

Shaun

Timur 008,
I can assure you that reliability at this spec and intended use is NOT an issue with the said TMIC in place. The airflow to a Newage TMIC is extremely good. How much BHP do you think a FMIC will give over a TMIC in this instance and under what conditions.... all driving, when being stationary and then pulling off?

You really need to put this in to context with what the OP is stating he will use the car for.

gussy

iTrader: (2)

Im sure Shaun can answer this question in total honesty

Timur 008

iTrader: (2)

Shaun,
Paddokx was stating "Your thoughts or experience would be very much appreciated" so i gave my personal thoughts & experience in installing a FMIC onto my WRX STI i as i felt a big difference after a FMIC & rolling road re-map & think they are well worth the £££. I didn't say the TMIC is not good for any amount of BHP or he has to change it for a FMIC.. i'm just saying that i personally don't want to think about heat soak on my car or the possibility to lose any bhp what so ever be it 2bhp or 20bhp. I mentioned race cars as our cars are the copies of the rally bred 4x4 high bhp cars & they are supposingly running around 300+ horses & they have FMIC's if some of us here are running 400+ horses its something to think about Well.. i like em & have had it done to 3 of my cars each time i liked the outcome.

Shaun

Whilst the bottom of my pit has not been reached it has been attacked to the tune of £50+k worth of car and mods for my Spec C.

Keep it reliable, keep it simple and above all enjoy it! I would argue that the more you spend, then potentially the less you enjoy.

If you just want a Spec C to enjoy and have no stress by always being able to jump in, turn the key and not worry about anything.... based on current methods stick to a max of 400bhp.

Timur 008,
Whilst a WRC rally car run's "around" 300bhp, it also has around 500lbft of torque running more boost than most of us would dare to run through our mortal race engines. Everything in context, especially when the last .100sec counts in motorsport, where everything last minute advantage helps, whether it costs £10 or £10,000. This is all I am trying to highlight. These engines are being run flat knacker with heat on a WRC engine being one of the biggest killers. However people would like to think we run road going versions of WRC cars, we do not..... the resemblence ends with the manufacturer and base body shell shape (it may as well end there).

paddokx

Well guys shall I book Madison Square Gardens or MGM Grand, we can have it out there !!!!!!!!!!

As I guessed, a split opinion.

Because it seems to be 50/50 & because I like to keep things simple & because I like things to look pretty standard (Wolf in sheeps clothing) I have decided to stick with the TMIC, why spoil something that works well.

Like Gussy, I too have oil changes done on a very regular basis so hopefully reliability will not be an issue, ordered a rear AP Brake kit today to match up front, money better spent.

Dare I ask if people use manual or auto water spray on the track !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks so much for everyones opinions, this is what makes Scoobynet a great place to spend time on ( wife thinks otherwise )

gussy

iTrader: (2)

I just leave mine in auto Paddokx never had an issue.

Shaun

Paddokx,
Dare I say that there is no need to uprate the rear brembo calipers on your Spec C. They are perfectly fine. Save your cash mate or give it to me.

paddokx

Hi Shaun,

Yes I agree with you on the brakes but they do look nice !!!!

I have to spend my money on something because it ain't making anything sat in the bank & it's just plain boring paying off the credit cards !!!!

Butty

iTrader: (2)

I'd be more worried about oil temps and fuel surge going on track, but then I don't have the extra goodies found on a Spec C.

Timur - if its a classic STi then I'd understand your enthusiasm for a FMIC and its well founded. If its a newage car then you've bought the hype.
The 400 hp Powerstation package would come with an FMIC if they felt it needed one - after all its a warrantied package.

Nick