bigarf

iTrader: (67)

well i finally got down to putting my car on the rr today and wasnt best pleased with the results.a quick run down of the spec,2.5l closed deck block,forged internals,walbro motorsport fuel pump,tubular wrapped headers,full decat 3in exhaust,parallel fuel rails,800cc injectors,inlet manifold heat spacers,aps front mount,large k+n cone filter,md321t+ turbo,autronic ecu,standered sti 8 heads,running 10 percent methanol and a few other bits and pieces.now before i had the 2.5l done i was on the standered 2.0l with the md321h,standered ecu running just v power and it made 418 bhp.so you would have thought that with the bigger engine,turbo,autronic ecu and 10 percent methanol that it would make more than an extra 20 bhp.or am i just hoping for too much.

Shaun

Have you got a boost curve?

I have to say, the power curve peaks very early and torque seems late for AVCS heads. Running that turbo on funny fuel, I would of thought a 470bhp would of been on the cards.

Who mapped it and what did they say when they mapped it?

dunx

iTrader: (3)

"The Racing Line"....

LOL

DunxC

Shaun

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

I'd say that is definitely a mapping issue.

Torque drops off a lot from 5k upwards causing the power to drop loads.

What was the boost profile/afr profile?

never heard of that dyno - who did the mapping?

bigarf

iTrader: (67)

i was thinking of around 470 ish myself,or atleast over 450,had it mapped by andrew carr,i could feel the power tailing off on the road myself but i had an issue with the exhaust when it was mapped first so got that sorted and had the map tweeked again which seemed to make a little more top end power.

Pete

Racing Line are in Halifax guys, do alot of Evos for the MLR guys..Matt is the guy who maps the cars...


the Racing line (UK) Ltd - www.theracingline.co.uk

Midlife......

iTrader: (2)

Not far off my bugeye WRX running an 18G with methanol injection

Shaun

R4LLY

iTrader: (1)

That fuelling is odd, it needs to be smoothed out. Get the map done again or at least re-checked.


A MD321T+ Should easily make at least 450+ with meth, especially with the amount of boost that you are running.

Just for reference, below is a fuel curve from a very high powered 20G meth mix, as you can see from boost the fuelling is spot on and extremely stable, resulting in 420bhp.

bigarf

iTrader: (67)

[QUOTE=R4LLY;8253058]That fuelling is odd, it needs to be smoothed out. Get the map done again or at least re-checked.


A MD321T+ Should easily make at least 450+ with meth, especially with the amount of boost that you are running.

Just for reference, below is a fuel curve from a very high powered 20G meth mix, as you can see from boost the fuelling is spot on and extremely stable, resulting in 420bhp.

yes but surely just by smoothing the fueling out isnt going to give me any were near the power i should be making,could there be something else wrong.

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

I'd say it is more likely to be timing issues than fueling. What was the problem with the exhaust ? Any other comments from Andrew ?

Has yours got the avcs heads?

Sure it could lean out a touch at the top and gain some power from that but there is a balance in keeping it safe. Mine runs around those figures AFR wise.

bigarf

iTrader: (67)

the problem with the exhaust was that when i first had the downpipe fitted i was running a 2.5inch exhaust so the down pipe had to be tapered to fit.so since having the 3in exhaust fitted the bit were the down pipe went smaller had to be cut out and made bigger to make a full 3in system as we thought that was restricting it.the heads are avcs,and ime pretty sure the timings about right as when he mapped it first he couldnt get the advance he needed , but since doing the exhaust he was able to get another 2 degree or so advance on the timing.he didnt want to go anymore as to keep it safe.

bluenose172

iTrader: (2)

It shouldn't really have that dip in the fueling though, should it?

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

Some mappers use additional fuel to help the turbo spool - its quite normal.

AndrewC

As discussed, get the outstanding problems resolved before getting the map looked at again.

The changes to inlet and exhaust certainly let it breathe better but it still doesn't take as much timing as I would expect.

Andrew...

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

So there are still issues Andrew?

bigarf

iTrader: (67)

yeah had a problem with the engine breathing since it was first built,as ive been so busy with work and such havent had time to get back down to the engine builder to get it sorted.dont know whether that will be affecting the power figure so much but i thought i had better get it sorted now, so i gave him a ring today and he says to save me time and inconvenience of my car being off the road while he takes the engine appart, he will build me another fresh engine so its just a matter of me taking the car down and swopping them over.if that doesnt solve the problem then ime out of ideas of what it could be.

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

If that is what Andrew says is holding it back from taking the timing - then I would go with what Andrew says. He knows his onions

bigarf

iTrader: (67)

and his tomatoes.

Shaun

If my engine was having a problem with breathing, I would be more worried about the rear main popping!

bigarf

iTrader: (67)

more info please.

Shaun

It's the seal around the rear of the crank. If you are having breathing problems in the crankcase, it can push this seal out. This may not only cause contamination of the clutch and flywheel, but is not a nice job to have to change. I am not sure if this can be done whilst engine is in situ.

Losing oil from this seal may also mean pressure loss around rear main bearing.

bigarf

iTrader: (67)

oh right,well touch wood nothing like thats happened yet but as i say the engine will be getting swapped for a new one shortly so hopefully i will start seeing some better figures.(fingers crossed).

Shaun

Hope it all comes together for you!

R4LLY

iTrader: (1)

That car jumps to over 12.2 AFR when hitting 1.8 bar of boost.

Normally Fuel would be increased especially when it spikes on boost, not taken out....

Fuelling makes more of a difference then people think, especially when running Meth.

There may be other issues in your car which couldn't allow the mapper to stabilise the fuelling and fully map the car to it's potential.

Just ask whoever tuned/built the car why it's acting like that on the dyno.

They will know better than anyone else on here as to the reason why.

reano

iTrader: (2)

When your car starts to get to that level of tune and you have an autronics ECU you need to start to take action yourself about learning to tune your own car. Then you will have less hassle.

Steps to take are as follows:-

1) Any fitting of components (headers, clutch, turbo, etc) either do it yourself or find a good local reputable garage as these things are bread and butter to a local good mechanic and will be a lot cheaper than most specialist accept people like Harvey Performance.
2) Next get yourself some good books and plan on reading for a long while first start off with Ben strader book

Building And Tuning High-performance Electronic Fuel Injection by Ben Strader - Lovereading

There are others but this will be a good start.
3) Join the MRM autronics forum for free downloads, guides and general help and for more reading.
4) Get yourself on the EFi101 course in UK when they do it again. Either do the intro or right up to advanced.
5) Find out about any local dyno shops that you can book time with e.g. at about £50 so you can map your own car on it.

With the above you will be able to get yourself up to a good standard to map your own car as you will be trained by the best, have taken practical experience lessons, read all the background theory and will have all the software and tools (gauges, air/fuel meter, knock sensor, etc) to do it yourself.

I wouldn't say this is for all but because you have the basic car platform that should be pushing 500bhp you will be mapping that car over and over and no mapper has that much time to spend on your car (well they do but by the time they've finished you could have brought another small car) and only you know when it it is driving right for your needs.

I think those who just want a boost in performance would find the above options to time consuming and expensive but if you are after a beast like your car the best way is to do it yourself you will learn a lot in the process and if you take the right course with hands-on practical experience you will not do any damage to your car and best it will be a lot cheaper in the long run and you can ttweak till your hearts content.....

This is the path I am gradually taking .....

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

I'm with you on that reano, the best thing I have done is mapping my car myself. I have lost count of the number of map revisions I have made now, most improve the situation but not all. Understanding cause and effect is key to relating the way the car feels from everyday driving and why it feels that way (and what solves it).

wiley

iTrader: (63)

you must be really pleased. looking to get on the dyno after my simtek and new turbo. only looking for up to 350bhp tbh

wiley

dynamix

iTrader: (3)

Without asking the obvious... why do you feel you need a Simtek to get to 350bhp ?

RS_Matt

Are the rollers still slightly out at TRL?