Dream Weaver

Just recently there seems to be a lot of people asking about why there is so much moderation and censorship on the bbs, and I was wondering whether SDB or any of the moderators had been threatened with libel, or solicitors regarding posts?

Everytime someone mentions a company they have received bad service from, or a person, the thread gets deleted, locked etc. As in the case of my post which warned you about a certain online electrical retailer.

However, forums such as AVforums seem to get away with posts about all companies, good and bad - they are even working with manufacturers, where the manufacturers visit the forums once a month to answer questions.

It just seems a bit fuzzy to me - has Scoobynet been threatened with legal/libel or is it a "just in case"?

Not a moan or rant, just curious.

DW

[Edited by Dream Weaver - 2/9/2002 9:58:36 AM]

Neil Smalley

DW

SDB and scoobynet have been threatend with legal action fairly recently(like in the last month or so). Prompt action by Simon and the moderators averted a costly legal action.

It's not just about whether scoobynet/Simon would win the case, it's the expense that would be incurred in fighting a lawsuit. Scoobynet only just covers it's expenses, so a law suit would be bad news and may result in it being shut down not because it lost the case, but because all the money went on defending one.

I suspect people more qualified than I will spread more light on the situation or more probably, prove me wrong.

imatrukahs

Fair point,you cant go around slandering a business cause someone aint happy with the service received....although i think it is right to mention you have had difficultys and name them but dont go into detail.Does that make any sense?!!!

Dream Weaver

Yes - my point is if you receive bad service (and can prove it) then you should eb able to say something. You would tell your friends in the pub, so why not on here.

I understand from Scoobynets point of view fully, and thats how it should be - I am angry at the crazy laws that mean you cant point out bad service in public - good service is fine, but not bad.

Anyway, no worries

DW

Luke

Thats exactly what these companies and people want. Complete power.

I beleive that as this BBS belongs to SDB he does have a right to what is posted here. I have witnessed him been fair,but mainly trying to protect himself.

Shark

I see it this way. If you post the facts and nothing but facts then there is no reason why the post should be deleted. I had very bad service from a company and was going to post all the facts - in the end I couldn't be aRSed.

David

polarbearit

Over the past year or so I have had some absolutely shocking service, generally not related to my scooby so I haven't posted details on here. Surfice to say I think in the UK we stand for far too much and accept poor service all too readily...

I see no problem with people posting facts on cases and and forming an opinion as a result of that...

Eg saying company X are cr4p is not really fair,
but saying company X let me down, failed to deliver ontime, delieved a faulty product and overcharged, therefore I think company X are cr4p, I think is fully justified...

Anyway its tricky on a public BBS, but I personally think the balance is better on the AV Forums. But agree it is a very fine line.

Jon

ex-webby

Hi All

Good thread!

This is by far the most painful part of running scoobynet. Just as everyone else, I personally want to see companies named and shamed for bad service. I've been ripped off by my fair share of companies (some whilst running scoobynet) and you will not see a single post from me along those lines.

The problem is not always just whether the things you post are true, or even provable. Bare in mind, that just because you believe they are provable doesn't mean that I will know that for sure.

We are threatened with legal action on average about once every 2 months. Sometimes very seriously, and it requires due diligence on our part to strengthen our potential case should it go to court.

We have a legal responsibility (as frustrating as that may be) to remove potentially libellous threads / posts on request of the "injured" party, or upon noticing them. Failure to do so, enforces the stand point that they were scoobynet's opinions.

The amount of traffic on scoobynet is around 15 times what it was 18 months ago (and it was already a huge site), so we get a staggering amount of attention, and it is just a fact that things get noticed here that perhaps wouldn't be on other sites.

We *could* just turn a blind eye and see how it goes. Maybe we'd last a month, maybe a year. But eventually someone would sue us and the board would close, my company may go bankrupt and I personally could lose a substantial amount of money.

As Neil said, scoobynet does not "make money", it mearly pays for itself. It doesn't pay for anyone's time (including mine), but the moderators and I are genuinely dedicated to keeping it here for everyone including us. I think most would agree it is one of the most professionally run sites of it's kind in the world, and certainly one of the most popular. This is just a price we have to pay for all the good stuff.

All the best

Simon

imatrukahs

Can i be a moderator?

sammyh

iTrader: (1)

no

Mark Underwood

Simon....nicely put my old mate. Nicely explained etc etc. Keep up the good work.
Rgds
Mark (WoW)

Scooby-Doo

The last thing any of us want is for Scoobynet to close down, but surely as individuals we have some freedom of speech regarding poor service we have received. We have a legal disclaimer at the bottom of the page ?

The Zohan

Well said Simon

I for one want this BBS to be here to stay and not shut-down due to some legal rangle. Scoobynet is a brilliant and constructive site and i for one would be very sorry to see it closed.

People - Please support Scoobynet, don't let it get nasty, negative, a slagging off forum or closed for good.

Long live Scoobynet!

Simon - keep up the good work!

Paul Habgood, moderator and proud of it

edited due to crop spolling



[Edited by Paul Habgood - 2/9/2002 7:25:34 PM]

ScoobyJawa

Absolutely top post Simon. I for one don't give a monkeys if the odd thread is locked if it means that ScoobyNet stays with us and up and running, it would be a great shame to lose the BBS and the community around it because of the things mentioned.
I bought my Scoob in March last year and the people I have met and trips I have been on have been brilliant and it would be tragic to lose that sort of atmosphere.

Your efforts are appreciated Keep up the good work

DannyBoyTurbo

It might sound a dumb question but surely some kind of disclaimer would irradicate any chance of facing legal action??

Surely there have been similar legal cases we can learn from?

SDB

Hi Danny

I know, it seems straight forward enough. Unfortunately, the similar legal cases have proved that the disclaimer means next to nothing.

All the best

Simon

banshi

Si
Sorry to be controversial, 'specially as I going to ask a favour next week!

But why did the "Borrowed Intercooler" thread dissapear. This was a case of a company complaining about a member of the community. Which has an impact on our credibility, the guy will no longer ship without pre payment.

It's unlikely that whoever it is will take out a second mortgage to support a liable action!

SDB

VERY good point..

2 points really..

Firstly, we shouldn't be immoral enough to think "sod it, they can't sue us, so let's give them both barrels", because that would just be another case of the small man getting the crap while the big company gets away scott free.

Secondly, the thread was deleted under the agreement of both parties involved as they decided it would be more appropriate to discuss it in private.

In addition (so I guess that's 3 points!! ), if we show due dilligence in all cases, we are more likely to be viewed by a court as being respectable if we do get to that stage with someone else.

It is incredibly difficult to be consistent all the time as there just isn't time to view all threads. We rely on people reporting the threads to us using the link at the top of each topic, and the time of the moderators and myself to check as much as we can.

All the best

Simon

carl

Originally posted by Simon de Banke:You're not wrong -- you've posted in this thread from two different usernames

SDB

LOL

SEE!!!

Andrewza

As far as I'm away you only really need to remove things if someone complains, but then it's also a matter of the BBS' policy. I constantly see complaints about moderation at work on our sites BBS, it's a very hard line to tread. In our case we officially represent itv so anything that heads towards libelous is removed straight away (but we have paid 24x7 moderators).

Andrew

banshi

Simon

Thank you for a prompt and comprehensive reply. I will not take more of your time. If the parties concerned are resolving their difficulties amicably then that thread at least was productive.

I do appreciate that many people generously devote their leisure hours and technical skill to ensure the continuation of this board. I would not wish to do anything which would jeapordise it's existence.

But with more than 11,000 members we are unfortunately going to find the odd rogue in or midst. It would be great if when we discover them others, corporate or individual, could benifit from our mistakes.

Sadly that doesn't seem to be possible.

SDB

Hi Banshi

You're not taking up my time mate. This is important stuff.

The best way to create the natural selection of suppliers is to recommend the good ones IMHO.

It's not easy, and I don't think we'll find a definite answer until the law is changed. Might be a while then!!

All the best

Simon

Dream Weaver

Thanks for the replies everyone, especially SDB

I fully understand the view of Scoobynet, and as I say SDB is right to cover himself, as I defo dont want to see the BBS go.

It just annoys me that I have recently had very bad service, but cant do anything to stop people spending £1k + and having the same nightmare that I have had with this company.

Not to worry though, cheers again.

DW

astraboy

Not wanting to take up any more of your time si, but where exactly is the line drawn? I was going to put up a rave review in which I was going to have a go at the security for victimising one of my friends last night, having second thoughts now.
I hazard a guess that you are going to say there is no line, but any pointers would be helpful.
cheers,
astraboy.

Hoppy

Well said, Simon.

Most of the people don't understand libel. I work in publishing, and I do. It is very serious, and very costly.

Stating 'facts' is not enough. When they are disputed, and any damaging implications drawn from them, you have to prove them - in court if it goes all the way. You will then discover that there are very few facts in these disputes and lots of subjective opinion and argument.

And BEFORE you get anywhere near a court, you'll have racked up £10,000 or more in legal fees, and countless hours of wasted time. Have you any idea how much top legal brains charge? You're into four figures just for a briefing and if you then want said legal bod to defend your case it'll cost an absolute fortune. You can buy houses for less.

Please let's not take liberties with ScoobyNet and Simon de Banke's business.

Best regards,

Richard.

[Edited by Hoppy - 2/9/2002 11:43:36 AM]

Luke

For all my sins,cant argue with your post Simon.

[Edited by Luke - 2/9/2002 5:23:29 PM]