22BUK

I read in The Daily Telegraph over the Christmas holidays that a Probation Officer was jailed for 30 months for pulling onto the A1 from a slip road without looking, causing a woman driver to swerve and have an accident, killing herself.
This *seems* pretty harsh punishment, doesn't it? Anybody got any more details? Or comments?

Dave T-S

Assuming that is what happened.....

Of course, if they had looked where they were going, they might not have caused the death of another person and the anguish to their loved ones etc...

If it was me she had killed I would have been pretty pi55ed off, I can tell you.

30 months? - got off lightly - string em up....

This is going to turn into one of those threads, I can tell.....

[This message has been edited by Dave T-S (edited 04 January 2001).]

The Zohan

30 months for killing someone seems to me to be a pretty light sentence. Still they will have the rest of their lives to dwell on it!

Paul M

I agree, if you ever want to murder someone make sure you do it in a car, even if you get caught, the jail sentences are minimal, stupid really, murder by gun, car or knife should have the same sentence for the same death....if you know what I mean.

Mungo

So, if you hypothetically dropped a banana skin on the pavement, and the next person to walk past slipped on it, banged their head on the ground and died, you'd deserve to go to prison for murder/manslaughter?
Doesn't sounds very fair.

Josh L

It's hardly the same thing is it Mungo?

This isn't a case of 'I cut myself, therefor I'll sue the knife manufacturer' or some such dross. The Court has decided that this man's negligence caused the death of another person. These things we drive around can be feckin' dangerous!

Definately got off lightly IMHO.

Josh

RichS

Isn't it time driving standards in this country were improved?

Instead of pricing us off the roads, perhaps our government should introduce a tougher driving test with retesting every 5 years etc.

Dream Weaver

It is a shame she died due to someone else not looking, but on the other hand a better motorway driver would notice the car coming up/down the slip road and adjust their speed accordingly just in case they did pull straight on.

On many occasions I have had people pull out in front of me off a slip road but I always adjust my speed so they can fit in front/behind my car at the speed they are travelling.

Who is supposed to give way according to the highway code? When I was 17 I had motorway lessons, and my instructor always said to allow people on to the motorway by moving over, or slowing down/speeding up where possible.

CraigH

Does anyone know the actual circumstances?

If a pedestrian suddenly runs out in front of you, you kill them, is that the same?

It's very unfortunate and sad, but I don't think you can fairly comment unless you know the details.

He may deserve it and 30 months isn't a long time for a life.

But I certainly think theres no fairness or continuity about how these sentances can be passed - go to another judge/jury, he may have got community service and a fine......

Bearing in mind, most death by dd drivers don't get that long....

Dr Hu

Yes but thats what is probably was negiligence.

The murder was not pre-meditated so it was probably just a slip of concentration, and we can ALL say we have been guilty of that at some time or a nother when driving.

I actually thought it was a bit harsh.

After all it could easily have been me or you!!!

The Zohan

Mungo - I think that I would probably pick it up and bin it rather than leave it out for people to fall over and injure themselves. if i had dropped it by accident and without realising then it may be different.

22BUK's thread leads me to believe that the person who caused the accident acted without care and or stupidly causeing the death of another person by their actions.

I would like to think that I take full responsibility for my actions at all times.

If I caused someone's death by my own stupidity or carelessness then I would expect to be punished for it - if I got 30 months then I would consider that to be a result.

AWD

A car is a dangerous weapon.

30 months for a life seems like it is unfair to the family of the lady who died.

How would you like it if someone in your family was killed after someone swerved in front of them, and that all they got was 2.5 years?

I wonder how people would have reacted if the person who caused the accident was an 18 year old in a modded up Cavalier, who was over the alcohol limit at the time? Or someone in a stolen car. The event would have been the same but I bet that a lot more people would have been up for sending the oik away for a lot longer than 2.5 years.

AWD

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Dream Weaver:
<B>It is a shame she died due to someone else not looking, but on the other hand a better motorway driver would notice the car coming up/down the slip road and adjust their speed accordingly just in case they did pull straight on.

On many occasions I have had people pull out in front of me off a slip road but I always adjust my speed so they can fit in front/behind my car at the speed they are travelling.

Who is supposed to give way according to the highway code? When I was 17 I had motorway lessons, and my instructor always said to allow people on to the motorway by moving over, or slowing down/speeding up where possible.[/quote]

We can't tell if it was possible to take avoiding action based on the scarce facts given. Maybe the person pulled in slowly. Maybe they suddenly cut in and the lady had to take sudden avoiding action. We don't know.

Regarding who is supposed to give way, that would be the person on the slip-road. Major road has right of way.

MartinM

IIRC, a driver got a £1000 fine and a 1 year ban yesterday in the Cheltenham/Gloucester area. What did he do...

..he admitted falling asleep at the wheel and hitting a car carrying two OAPs who were on their way to the funeral of their brother (in law?), both unfortunately being killed.

blubs

I have to agree here that judging this on the details available is not advisable. What exactly is pulling out 'without looking'.

Does this suggest that the person involved merely approached the junction, took a chance that nothing would be coming and then came straight out, or did they simply make a mistake and think the road was clear?

Lets face it, people make mistakes and the consequences can be tragic but punishing that person for the rest of their lives for the one mistake is harsh IMHO.

However, if the person has involved has been racing/in a stolen car/drunk etc etc then I agree, lock 'em up for a long time.

Flame suit engaged

blubs

Mungo

I intended my banana-skin scenario as an accident - i.e. I didn't know I had dropped the skin. From the description of the accident I assumed that the driver pulling onto the motorway had just not seen the victim's car behind him i.e. he/she was making their best effort to drive safely and it was entirely accidental that he/she had pulled into the path of the victim's car in a dangerous fashion.

As has been pointed out, it seems dangerous to make assumptions about the circumstances of the accident.

If the guilty party had been drunk and pulled onto the motorway without looking at all, then 30 months is a paltry sentence. If however it was nighttime and the victim's car didn't have its headlights on, then any sentence is very harsh.
Was the victim speeding? Was the swerve an over-reaction that a better driver could have avoided?

Not worth debating anymore, but goes to show that if you are adjudged to cause death by dangerous driving, you'd better be prepared for the consequences.

The Zohan

Mungo
So what your are in fact saying is that we had better be prepared to take responsibilty for our own actions righ or wrong.
Is that not part of growing up and becoming an responsible adult then?.

Just kidding!!!!!!!!

it has been an interesting one to debate and i wish there was more info on the actual circumstances. it is easy to judge without being in full command of the facts.

I am now looking for another bandwagon to jump on!

scoobysnacks

Sounds like a very unfortunate incident and the probation officer was clearly in the wrong. Consider this though: How much of it was also down to the driving of the other party. They may have swerved and lost control in a situation where lots of us would be able to swifly move over without crashing.
A similar situation could arise if one of us scooby drivers, for example, pulls out into a small gap in fast moving traffic, knowing we can accelerate away quickly enough to avoid incident, but the person behind thinks they will catch us up and hit us, so swerves and crashes. Would we deserve severe punishment for this....? I bet it's happened before.

Paul M

i
It's impossible to judge on what actually happened, we should all remember that where controlling a vehicle that has killed more people than both world wars, the plague, influenza and Aids put together. It's a lethal weapon, hill Street blues theme tune, on)so hey, lets be careful out there..(hill Street blues theme tune, off)

The Zohan

Paul
Not being funny but has the motorcar killed more people than plague, Flu, aids and both world wars?
By my reconing (avid Discovery channel watcher) that more than 60 million.

Fu*K!

[This message has been edited by Paul Habgood (edited 04 January 2001).]

HUNTY

30 months,

Only actually serve half = 15 months.

Will be released 60 days proir tagged.

Actual time inside, at a 'open prison' 12 months.

Dosn't seem to much for the victims family to compare with.

MorayMackenzie

Being a Probation Officer may not make that prison stay quite as smooth as it could have been.

The number of times I've had to take avoiding action for dangerous twits like this is quite a big number... Fortunately I haven't ever been that twit.

DavidBrown

We all "owe a duty of care" to other people, and can be held liable for things which which should realise are a danger (e.g. banana skin on the path)

Lawyers sue me if I'm wrong..

boomer

But in just the same way, the woman has a "duty of care" not to blindly drive past hazards such as junctions or slip roads. What if the Probation Officer had lost control due to brake failure, or was having a heart attack, or it was an emergency vehicle on the way to an incident?

mb

Dream Weaver

3 cheers for Boomer - exactly my point!!

Where the road is concerned you have to be careful, but you also have to watch other drivers and anticipate their movements.

How do we know that she wasn't applying lipstick (which I see a lot from women) and didn't realise that the car was pulling on from the slip road? He/She (prob officer) may have seen her coming but assumed she was far enough away to pull on - if she wasn't concentrating this may have been the cause.

Like we have said though, we don't know the facts - can anyone find out???

boomer

The article can be found at

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

I have seen an accident on the A1, none of them were looking at what i was doing, ie slowing down for an ambulance with its lights on at a junctions, the nearest car was 3-400m back from me, the junction was about 300m infront of me, my speed was 60mph, the conditions were dry and clear (daylight) my van has good rear lights and high brake light, slowing down, car still coming up fast behind me, still slowing down with brake lights on, car notices at the last minute (hes had atleast 200m to see im slowing down!!) brakes hard as im still slowing down, he stops, next car back from him (which i couldnt see cos it was that far back!! oh and i changed into the outside lane due to the position of the ambulance and the truck next to it) no one looked at what was ahead or what the car infront was doing, thus the nice pile up behind me oooops, well the ambulance got out of the junction and my van was unscathed, shame about the rest of the cars
Now i didnt do anything wrong, i slowed down to let an emergency vehicle out, the traffic was very light but they still had a multiple pile up and why??? because they were not looking at what was happening around them
People take it for granted that they always have right of way, especially off slip roads, we have all seen it when cars force themselves out of a junction but for an emergency vehicle its common coutesy to slow down and let them out, it could be your mother or sister in there, you dont know but i also had 3 near misses yesterday, one was a bmw rep who decided that he could just barge infront of me and the car infront because he left the junction too late.... its sad but it happens

Tony

[This message has been edited by TonyBurns (edited 05 January 2001).]