andymac

Ask yourself this question...
When you were learning to drive, when you drove in a 30mph zone, what speed was it that you were suggested to drive at ? As I recall it was as near to but not over 30mph as possible unless there's a very good reason for not doing so. 40,50,60,70mph the same. If people are taught to basically "drive at the limit" then they're going to carry that on into "real life driving" and assume that the limit is the speed they should drive (unless they've got a hat / fish / metro in which case they will drive at 45mph no matter what road they're on). If drivers were better educated earlier on (like they were taught to drive at say IAM or equiv. levels) then maybe we might all drive past schools at 20mph rather than at the limit (for that matter why don't they stick 15mph limits outside schools - the signs can't be that expensive).

Cheers
Andy

Josh L

Andy,

That's a very good point.

My Wife only took her test about 5 years ago, and she was told that she risked being failed if she didn't get up to speed quickly enough where the limit went from 30 - National. Madness!

Josh

Josh L

Sorry dupe post

[This message has been edited by Josh L (edited 20 December 2000).]

Jerome

If this bunch of idiots we call a government are successful and no-one speeds - ever - then what? There will still be deaths on the road, possibly even more as people will concentrate less on their driving. For example, in the US, when they brought in the blanket 55mph speed limit, accidents and deaths increased!

Maybe when it is impossible to speed, and there are still deaths on the road, whatever collection of reprobates that are running this country (into the ground), might just realise that driver education would be a good idea. But I doubt it. Firstly, it doesn't generate revenue, and secondly (and even worse!), it will cost money.

I reckon that when hardly anyone speeds any more, they will dream up some new offences to persecute motorists with and generate revenue. Like, suspicion of intent to speed. Punishable with 900 points and a £5000 fine.

Jerome.

PS: I pity the Traffic Police who will have to enforce these new proposals if they become law.

PPS: I didn't vote these morons in!

GCollier

Precisely what do people have in mind when they say "education, education, education"? It just looks like a cop-out to me, which would have limited impact. After all, we educate people in schools, lots still leave with zero qualifications. We educate people about the dangers of smoking, yet lots of people still smoke.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not in favour of draconian speeding laws either, but when the lowest-common-denominator in society needs to be catered for, I can't see many alternatives.

Gary.

Robertio

iTrader: (1)

I know of at least one person who failed their driving test for doing a couple of miles an hour less than 30 in a 30 zone I wonder how many of us would fail for doing that if we had to go through the standard driving test now?
'I'm sorry sir, but I have had to fail you for driving too slowly' Guaranteed to be found amusing by anyone who has been in my car
But it does seem that you are taught to drive no higher, no lower than the speed limit, which can't be right.
It does raise the point though, are 90% of the population not inteliigent enough to be able to sort it out for themselves?

Darren Thompson

When I said we voted them in I meant the public as a whole as I did note vote for this bunch of wan!ers, no offence meant to anyone.

As for the original point the motorist is has and will always be harassed as it is easy to convict and the Police now take the revenue from it, these prosecutions also are used as solved crimes to boost the public confidence in the police force. Don't get me wrong I am not slagging the police but I think it's time things were put in order and the motorist was educated and not prosecuted.

Darren.

Jerome

I have just read the governments proposals for motorists and am incandescant with rage.

For starters, they propose to clamp motorist's cars at their homes as a punishment for driving offences. Like, haven't they heard of hire cars!

They also propose to bring in a new points system with 20 points in total. The idea being that you get more points the faster you are going and depending on where you are speeding. You will be able to get banned for doing 23 in a 20 three times. Or get 15 points for doing 95 on the motorway.

They really have lost the plot. They are blatantly picking on the easiest of targets - the motorist. They'll be taxing walking sticks next. Blatant revenue generation. Banning people doesn't make them a good driver, or make them stop speeding. Nowhere do the government mention driver education - surely the one thing that will improve safety and driving standards.

I'm off to buy some gunpowder.

Jerome.

Mungo

Spot on - only three things will improve road safety to acceptable levels:

1. Driver education
2. Driver education
3. Driver education

By the way, Britain already has some of the safest roads in Europe, ahead of France, Germany, Italy and even Sweden. And this is without requiring any motorway provision in the driving test.

And why isn't Gatso money spent on good things like tarmac which drains water more effectively, better lighting, better signage, better road markings?

andrew6321

Agreed. One area they seem to have missed (or ignored) is driving standards. The government recently justified increased spending on Gatso cameras by claiming that excessive speed accounted for one third of all road accidents. That still leaves the other two thirds (ie, the majority) apparently un-addressed.

It took the Tories 18 years to get this unpopular. Labour has achieved that in only 4 years.

Darren Thompson

We voted them in so lets vote them out.

brickboy

As someone else here recently said about GATSOs, it's not as if they're used for generating revenue or anything. Oh no. That's why they have them on wide open stretches of dual carriageway as opposed to through villages.

We'd best enjoy the freedom of the road while we can, 'cos it doesn't look like we'll be doing it for much longer.

robski

I was told a few years ago that if you got caught speeding in america, that you were made to go on a driver education type exercise. May not be the case now tho, and maybe it was a state initiative rather than the whole of the US?

robski

NickM

Voting them out is all well and good but look at who will replace them! They'll win the next election because the competition is utterly pathetic.

I'm staying out of the UK until/if it returns to a country I'm willing to live in.

Murray53

The government, not only this one but earlier and future, are focusing on easy targets - US.

They are making out that speeding is the major contributing factor in road accidents, this is not true.

The Transport Research Laboratory have come up with figures proving this.

Speeding as one of the factors - 7.3%
Speeding as a definite factor - 6.0%

Failure to judge others path or speed as one of the factors - 10.7%
Failure to judge others path or speed as a definite factor - 10.3%

Careless/Reckless/Thoughtless Actions - 10%

Gatsos are there to make revenue not to make the roads safer
Its back to what most of you have been saying- education of drivers. Problem is the government don't make money out of that!!

Mark Kaye

I believe that the current Labour government have done a better job than most people had expected of them! Controversial yes, and I'm most certainly not a Labour voter. However, and it's a big one, I have a huge issue with the fact that Blair has no respect for debate in the House and prefers to take discussion behind closed doors. This is fundamentally undemocratic and must not be allowed to continue.

Interestingly, I saw an interview with Edward Heath and Tony Ben a few days ago. I think they were with Frost, but can't really remember. It was so clear that politicians of their generation were not only far more moral but seemed to be in politics on principle. They were there to fight for their beliefs. So so different to the wishy-washy back stabbing politics of today.

I sound like an old man, but I'm only 26!! Actually, maybe that is old.

M

Mungo

Inciting better driver education is not a cop-out.
For a start, no motorway driving training/testing is ludicrous. Almost half of the driving test should focus on this aspect - this is when a car is being driven at its fastest, and so the consequences of an accident are likely to be the most serious.
Drivers should be taught to look ahead and think ahead - to give a running commentary of the hazards they can see, and clues to other potential hazards - farm entrance=mud on road etc.
In-car hazards such as arguing children, smoking whilst driving, using a mobile phone and even tuning the radio should be better highlighted.
Skid control should be taught - how many people have ever skidded a car before its too late to know what to expect? How many of today's ABS-drivers have activated the ABS in a practice scenario, so they know how it feels?
The driving test should be made far more rigorous - a driving licence should be something that is earned through the ability to drive safely in all conditions, rather than be given out almost as an automatic right. The point was made above that we educate children in schools, but they come out without qualifications - the same should apply to driving.
Re-testing every 5 or 10 years should be mandatory, 2 or 3 years after 65.
Teaching people how to manouevre is all very well, but a car-park "ding" doesn't cost lives. And as for "making reasonable progress", oh dear....

Who guides the government on driving standards? No doubt it is another quango, loaded with the "speed kills" lobby?

Huxley

When i took my Class 1 HGV 12 years ago they taught us to always think two steps ahead of what we were doing on the road,and motorway driving was part lessons as well so why cant they teach motorway driving as part of there lessons and test !
WE need more DRIVER EDUCATION

As for the government there just out to make as much money out of the motorist as they can eg Car tax,Fuel Tax and anything else they can screw us for the W*****S :mad :mad

Ps, they don't want us to drive they want us to use public transport HA HA HA HA HA HA

PPS Put the robbing car thieves behind bars for a long time not just a short holidays in there luxury flats "sorry cells" :mad :mad

Huxley

AWD

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Mungo:
<B>By the way, Britain already has some of the safest roads in Europe, ahead of France, Germany, Italy and even Sweden. And this is without requiring any motorway provision in the driving test.[/quote]

This is true but one thing that is often forgotten is that we also have some of the worst roads as far as pedestrian injuries and deaths are concerned.

Maybe if the government concentrated on speeding in residential areas more than on motorways it might be more understandable, but the blanket ruling on speeding does make me wonder sometimes...

AWD

Having had a close friend killed by a car while crossing the road (when I was 12) it still really angers me when people get away with drink driving, excessive speeding/weaving in residential areas, etc.

Motorways can be safe for speeds up to 90+mph given suitable conditions and a safe car, but no - tey force us to drive at 70mph...

Anyway.. I'll stop ranting now.... it's the time of good cheer after all.

One last thing - we should be glad that we don't have Australia's traffic regs: There during public holiday periods they double the points and fines that you normally get for traffic offences. They are also extremely picky - i.e. I have heard of quite a few people who have had fines posted to them with things like doing 62kph in a 60kph zone (this in the suburbs of Sydney).

GaryC

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by Jerome:
<B>
PS: I pity the Traffic Police who will have to enforce these new proposals if they become law.

[/quote]

Don't ever feel sorry for the Traffic Police, they are even more power crazy than the New Labia government.

Bajie

Driving in this country is a joke. And not a very funny one either. The majority of people on the road have no idea what is going on around them. People should be made to ride a scooter for six months before they are allowed behind the wheel of a car.
More driver education. Well, even in the antique edition of the Highway Code it says stay on the left. But no, everyone wants the outside lane until their junction appears.
Having been abroad and being amazed at what I considered the bad standard of driving produced on the continent it did become quite apparent that people did not have this problem of hogging the outside lane. One or two did, but not the majority.
In city areas we're all crap. Again mainly due to lack of vision [consideration] to surroundings.
Today, foolish car in front of me doing 60.
I move to the EMPTY centre lane, he speeds up. I move behind him. He slams his brakes, and makes w@nker signs.

Mungo

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:<HR>Originally posted by AWD:
<B> This is true but one thing that is often forgotten is that we also have some of the worst roads as far as pedestrian injuries and deaths are concerned.

[/quote]

I totally agree - somebody almost knocked me down on a pedestrian crossing last night. Either he didn't feel like he should stop, or wasn't paying any attention. The arrogance and lack of respect for pedestians and cyclists by some drivers appalls me.

I have also been hooted at by a car behind before now for NOT moving forward across a pedestrian crossing whilst in a traffic jam.
Makes me mad.

Jerome

Whilst we are talking about pedestrians, I started across a zebra crossing on the way home from work one night. To my right I saw a car approaching at a speed that made me think he wasn't going to stop, so I stood still and waited to see what he was doing. The *$%£@! drove round me. He must have nearly clipped the curb on the wrong side of the road. I have a real problem with people not stopping for pedestrian crossings. In a rage I kicked the side of this car as hard as I could. I definitely made a healthy dent in his passenger door. He stopped a few yards up the road. I imagine his train of thought was:

Oh god I hit that guy on the crossing.
No I didn't, he's still standing in the road.
He must of kicked my car!
But I drove round him on a crossing so I'm in more trouble than him.
F**k! I'll have to drive off, but not before I shout a four letter word beginnning with "c" at him.

When you have people driving round people on crossings rather than stop, is it any wonder that so many pedestrians get killed? Why don't the Police stake out a zebra crossing in a busy street for a couple of hours? I guarantee they will have to write out lots of tickets.

Jerome.

[This message has been edited by Jerome (edited 21 December 2000).]

Bajie

When I was in Sweden, I started to cross the road looking in the wrong direction [we drive on the correct side here] at a traffic light.
The approaching car aimed at me and sped up

Rebecca

Didn't work though did it Bajie

Actually I could think of quite a few pedestrian crossings in London that the cops would do well to monitor. And it's no wonder that people cross anywhere when pedestrian crossings are no safer

BarryK

Firstly, on the "vote them out" ticket, this abuse of motoring is an all party pledge. Same way they all wanted rid of Mortgage tax relief, we have no alternative, they all see this "Draconian" approach as an "earner" they can legitimise to the "public" who are not "motorists". Now how many of the "public" do you know who are unaffected by things motoring? The "tax payer" and "the motorist" are one and the same.

Examples of gob$hite driving:

This morning (not one of the better drives to work) behind a dithering old get who drove evrywhere at 45. In the 30 zone, 45. In the GLF zone, 45. In the 40 zone, 45. Aarrrggghhhh!

In the same village as that happened, last week going back home through it (in the dark) stopped to flash an artic past some cars parked on his side of the road, just as he moves forward, guy drives up behind me, obviously thinks "what's he stopped for, tosser" and DROVE AROUND ME into the path of the artic, who he proceeded to berate, flash lights, sound horn etc! Guess what? It was a feckin taxi!!!!!

God, give me strength.

Mungo

Similar situation on the way home the other night - I was following a Royal Mail lorry and a Merc 190,our lane is blocked by parked cars. The lorry stops to allow oncoming traffic through, and the bloody Merc pulls out round the lorry, to have to stop to avoid a head-on, and then reverse back into the space behind the lorry.
I ask you - and people say driver education is a waste of time. Maybe buying some of these people a sight test and some specs would be a better approach?

Rob B

The old 45mph everytime, everyplace, everywhere brigade - don't get me started or I'l need the nurse to come round with a top-up of morphine again.

Got to wonder if the real reason for increasing the points threshold is that too many of us were getting banned for building up 12 points and of course a banned driver isn't a revenue generator. Increase the points limit and you can keep fining us for doing 71 on the motorway, increase road tax without spending any on the roads and keep extorting money out of us every time we are stupid enough to put fuel in out cars.