serega

( Please read it through if you can, need alot of advise )

Backstory:

I had an engine built by a reputable builder a few months back. 2.35 litre block, garret turbo, motec ecu and the lot - so a very expensive job.

Had a list of things how to change the oil and do a run in. So i did run the engine and change the oil as recommended in the guide that came from the company itself.
The engine was using quite a bit of oil, but i was told by the builder that its normal for such a performance engine and its nothing to worry about. Here is the exact email after i expressed my concerns regarding the oil consumption :

"Those type of engines do use a bit of oil. I would be surprised if they didn't ANd it may well get ebtter rather than worse as it settles down.

No worry for me at the figures you mention.

If I am not worried - then you are not worried, OK ?"

So after 1,500-2000 miles Bob Rawle did a final map on the car. To start with, 2 of the pipes ( cant remember exactly which ones ) were not properly connected and the car would not cut the boost at a certain level that is set by the Ecu. But as we didnt know that something was wrong at first, we did manage to hit some very high boost on the first run.

Bob, (being a very talented guy) figured what was wrong and had it fixed.
Everything went fine after that - the car was very strong and we spent 1hr + polishing things up, untill Bob was satisfied.

However, on the last run up once we got to the motorway and we hit full acceleration (As i simply wasnt expecting anything to be wrong, i gave it the beans.) another problem surfaced; next thing i know Bob was hitting me on the shoulder and telling me to stop; it seems that for that second the boost has hit somewhere around 3bar as the boost cut has stopped working once again.

We stopped at a cul-de-sac to check under the bonnet, and Bob found that a wastegate pipe has come off, as it was not clipped at all. As it was far under the bonnet, we couldnt get to it straight away, we drove to Bob's house steadily where he managed to put it back on and clip the thing properly this time. Since it was time for Bob to have another map, i drove back to London without checking the map over for the last time.

Turns out knocklinks can be very helpfull at times; as i got onto the carriageway i noticed my knocklink lighting up like an Xmas tree, all the way from first gear, even under slightest boost. Tried to call Bob, but his phone was already off, so there was no point returning as i know he's a very busy guy and didnt want to waste more of his time. Drove steadily back to London, and waited untill i could get ahold of Bob to try and figure this out. Bob recomended adding some octane booster ( as the wastegate pipe is now clipped on tightly, the boost can come in more aggressively and cause the maps to be outdated ), but pouring 1 bottle of octane booster to half tank of optimax didnt make a slightest difference, it was decided that the engine has packed up and it was back to the builder. ( Please advise here whether i am right to assume that this should be covered under warranty ? )

Now thats where things turn from obvious to - what the heck is going on.

So thinking that, a bad attention to detail from the builder's side has caused my engine to pack up, i brought the car back to him ( explaining the situation ). His response was that he will get it sorted out. After 4 weeks of waiting and emailing back and forth saying he was busy i had this mail:

"I want this week out of my way as we have 3 cars to be ready for Saturday Then we can get straight on with yours. I expect to see that it has not run in properly and that excess petrol has washed to bore and damaged the side of a piston. Should not be too much of a problem and then we can get it back running ASAP"
So now, all of a sudden he starts to think that i didnt run it in properly and that has caused the knocking ? Even thought me and Bob explained the situation to him in detailed emails. I once again emailed him my thoughts regarding the "accident" with the piping which was left unreplied.

One or 2 weeks later i get this email:
"Hallo, you know who,

The problem with the engine is just that it has not run in at all. The bores are so shiny I could see to shave in them. The cure is to hone them back to rough finish fit new rings and then give a quick but firm running in for 100 miles then it will be fine.

The noise was related to a slightly tight small end bush that at a certain angle 'clicks' no damage at all relating to the high boost spike. The shiny bores are entirely the reason for the oil burning.

You need to work it harder when running in NO dangerously so but it does ned to get some energy into it.

The engine is goiung together as soon as the piston rings arrive from Lateral, I just hope they are not stucjk in the mail as they should have been here Thursday l'll check today to see where they may be.

There will be a modest charge for the repair, but l will keep it to a minimum for you. There is nothing wrong with the engine that is the fault of xxx, but as you have spent so much it would be unfair to charge full rate.

Back together as soon as for you."


Now, i will stop here and just say that we laughed about it and never mentioned money again because i thought that they will genuinely take care of the car for a modest charge as they partially take responsibility for what happend ( I know that you cant trust your money to someone else, but i genuinely believed that guy), and that later the modest charge turned out to be 1,800 pounds + VAT, even though on numerous occaisions i have told the guy that i had no money to pay 1,000 pounds for a brake kit that i really needed.

After sending him an email stating that i dont have that kind of money, and that he must be out of his mind thats what i got :

"The bill should be at least £2260.00 + VAT I have deducted 20% plus from that to help you. Elsewhere the bill would be much higher with no sympathy from the company.

I can reduce it further to £1500.00 + VAT but that is far as it can go. Remember xxx has done nothing wrong here, we are correcting your mistake."



I would really appreciate if someone can give me an honest advise regarding where i stand and how i can deal with this.
If you dont want to participate in the thread for anonymous reasons, please email me to: scoobyman1983@yahoo.co.uk or PM me.

All help is appreciated. Regards.

serega

I know some of you might say - just easier to pay 1,800 pounds and get over it, but at the moment 1,800 pounds might as well be 18,000 pounds. There's just no way for me to get that kind of money.

RB5SCOTT

Who built your engine?

serega

Lets say a reputable company. Im not going to say names yet.

Ian

iTrader: (10)

trading standards, from what you say, they are taking the ****, name and shame

RB5SCOTT

being a 2.3 and using lateral narrows it down a bit i suppose

exvaux

iTrader: (1)

trading standards,especially if you have someone like bob to back you up.its a minefield,thats when im worrying about rebuilding mine,is it worth just getting another already run in engine as like you i cant afford to rebuild it every 2 months.i dont really want to know the name of said company but they arent from scotland are they,more specifically ayrshire?

amego

lawyers you want give him abit of a scare

serega

Sorry guys, im not going to say names yet. If you can figure out from this email who it is, its not nessecary true so dont pass judgement yet.

I know the owner reads this board, and hopefully your opinion will make him change his mind. If i dont get a response from him this week, then its off to trading standards or other means. I really appreciate your responses - thanks guys.

dan83590

IMO its down to you prooving that you ran the car in exactly to XXX specifications. Without that XXX is laughing all the way to the bank.

Ian

iTrader: (10)

dont give up, i have been in something like this with a trader a few years ago, after my cam belt came off, 1.5k miles after it was fitted, he tryed to say the cam belt cover worpted under engine heat, pulled the aux belt off,causing it to go into the engine. took it to a nother garage, trading standards etc, and they all said he was trying it on. it took a few months, but it all got sorted in the end.


so hang on, hold onto your guns, and keep recolds off all emails, paper work etc etc, they are worth there weight in gold!

stevebt

iTrader: (8)

I have been in a similar situation to yourself where an engine failed soon after a buiid. I went down the debt collector routes etc and ended up even more out of pocket. If I were you I wouldn't pursue this without 100% proof of guilt or you will just end up more out of pocket as well

Jamo

iTrader: (23)

if it was me, I would be going to trading standards and not washing your dirty clothes in public! you have a reputable person on your side backing you, thats enough.

presuming everything is as you say, they are taking the michael charging you again. should have been a bit of labour charge nothing else IN MY OPINION.

bob r

iTrader: (46)

I have little knowledge with this sort of thing but common sense would tell me that as xxx has described the problem being the shiney bores(not run in correctly) you are going to struggle to prove otherwise.
Trading standards or anybody else would not be able to see the bores as I'm sure they have been repaired already.

Proof is what you need, and I doubt you will be able to get any.

Good luck all the same..... I bet you are kin livid.

top_fuel

iTrader: (1)

can someone just name them?..

i need to list them in my bad book and cross them from my tuners book.

Butty

iTrader: (2)

If your only issue is the cost of replacing rings for a whopping £1800 + vat then get a detailed breakdown of costs from the overall supplier.

Did the KL light up before and during remapping or only after the 3 bar event?

nick

serega

I cant say whether the bores were shiny and whether i did or didnt do a proper running in.

Doesnt the fault come with the builder for failing to secure the wastegate pipe and in turn making the engine knock ? Its their fault which can be confirmed by pictures.

Isnt that the main reason that made me come to them in the first place and that should be covered by the warranty ?

Butty

iTrader: (2)

Its sounds like you had 2 builders - one who assembled the engine and another who put it in along with the turbo etc. and was the compnay you had a contract with.
If this is correct then the second one is responsible for the correct installation of hoses.

serega

KL started showing det only after i drove off from Bob, there was no knocking whatsoever during the map and we took it very easy when we were driving it back after the overboost. Only after i left Bob's did i notice KL lighting up.

serega

Its not some random people. Its 1 company that did everything.

+Doc+

Feel sorry for you mate, I dont think there is an easy way out of this situation. There are always two sides to any story, it would be unfair to pass judgement without hearing both sides fair and square.
If the company is reputable and from the Scoobynet community I would hope, if they are at fault, would come to some amicable agreement without getting anyone else involved.

Mikkel

Sounds like a nightmare.

What is the engine worth? £1500 and it may go wrong again and cost you even more... better starting again with someone else and tell him to keep his engine?

bighead

iTrader: (1)

it bull**** about running engines in anyway ...... as any engine will run well without a "run-in" period !! , they may or may not last a certain amount of time .... but that another story .
Should last afew thousand milles at the very least

what is Bob Rawle advice regarding yr situation ?

trails

iTrader: (41)

if its a built 2.3 then its going to be closer to £4k...

gazza-uk

I would have waited for the excess oil consumption to end before mapping and tonking it.

also you had concers with it here;

https://www.scoobynet.com/general-te...gine-done.html

Why didn't you take it back ????

Also,

Did you check the running in procedure, you don't appear to know which oil to use etc.

If the garage did not tell you all this then go get em.

Gutmann pug

I wouldn't use a company who didn't know how to use spell check. How can they be reputable and send out e-mails like that?

Butty

iTrader: (2)

If the builder is taking the blame for the tight bush causing the KL noise then they would have had to remove the engine and strip it down to solve it.
If you've glazed the bores through incorrect bedding in, then all your costs are for three piston removals, new rings and a hone as the engine is already removed and in bits.
Certainly not £1800 to do.

Perhaps it would have been wiser to get the builder to complete the final mapping to avoid complicating the situation.

pslewis

Could the Engine Re-builder argue that you took the engine outside of its design envelope by re-mapping it? Just thinking out loud ...

rcwhite

i think the re map would be part of the prosses...mate....

pslewis

I see ...... the engine re-builder commissioned Bob Rawle to re-map? - sorry, I didn't catch that bit