P1Fanatic

Bit of a weird comparison you might say. I dont like the new shape Impreza WRX purely on looks and would have to spend a few grand on changing its appearance. An import costs £17k delivered to the door so a good deal. However Ive always wanted a P1 for its performance and its ultra sexy looks. I have been looking at getting one towards the end of 2002 when I am 26 and can a) afford the car after paying of my student debts and b) the insurance is reasonable. I can afford around £24k for the car so was looking at a 2nd hand P1 with around 10k on the clock and with a good bit of warranty left on it. I have been out in a mates and love it bar the interior but that is really not that much of a problem to me. Reading this forum for a few weeks had made me aware that the ownership costs for a P1 can be quite high in terms of cost per mile. There is always the doubt in the back of my mind about buying a 2nd hand car of this value (as to me its a lot of dough) even though I would be getting a subaru warranty. I want to be in posession of all the facts before I make my purchase as I would hate to have to sell the car after a year or so when I realise what it really costs to own it.

The S3 is the only other car that appeals to me in terms or performance, looks etc. Seeing as many companys can import them brand new for around £22k (compared to £24,770 UK OTR) and I would spend around £2k on upgrades (alloy wing mirrors, BOSE sound system, audio parking warning system, heated seats) it is in my price budget. The interior is second to none with the Electric Recaros doused in Black/Blue Leather & Alcantra!

Could any current or ex P1 and S3 drivers comment on the following:

1. P1 warranty - If I bought a 2nd hand P1 from a subaru dealer could I buy an extended warranty on top of the 24mths or so I would have remaining? If so how much would I be looking at?

2. Depriciation - the S3 seems a very sort after car and as such I can see several 1yr old cars with 10k on the clock (with a few upgrades) for the same price as a new one OTR from Audi UK. Does this mean there is a long waiting list for a new S3 which keeps 2nd hand prices high? I read in all the mags that Impreza's keep their value but from real world prices I see a year old P1 down from the £31kish new price to £26k or lower - to me that is a lot of money to lose especially as the P1 is a ltd edition car - this looks likely to drop further with new STi out (maybe just the financial incentive needed to sway me to the P1).

3. Performance/handling - I know the P1 is in a different league to the S3 but is the S3 a good performance car for a hatch? I have a test drive towards the end of Jan but all my mates say it is a real fun car to drive and has bags of grip (much better than the TT).

4. Servicing/running costs - what sort of costs would I be likely to incur service wise on the S3 in the first 3 years? Are Audis expensive to maintain.

5. I know german cars are a cut above the rest but are Audi up there in the reliability/ build quality stakes with BMW, Mercedes etc?

Sorry for so many questions in one go.

Simon

john banks

If you are concerned about running costs also consider a Honda Civic Type R. Similar performance to S3, nicer interior than a Scoob, heck of a lot cheaper than both esp if imported from Europe. But turbos are easier to mod. Both the S3 and UK spec Scoob can be brought up towards P1 levels of performance depending on how far you take it.

eyeMAJIC

An often overlooked point is how much luggage space you need.
(prepares to get called "Mr. Sensible" )

I used to have an S3, and moved to a new WRX wagon because the boot space was pathetic (considerably less than standard 2WD A3 or Golf due to higher floor).

Sounds like a boring consideration, but there's nothing more frustrating than being short on load space if it's your only transport.

Never departed Ikea with a red face since I got the Scoob.

eyeMAJIC

P.S. My S3 was a good bit cheaper to insure than my Scoob.

Age 28, one year NCB, very low risk postcode.

Scoob: £1190 (elephant)
S3: £780 (privilege)

P1Fanatic

Boot space isnt too important - as long as I can fit in my golf clubs and a few bags of groceries Im fine. 2drs is good as less of an excuse for my mates to make me drive all the time (good if u have a good car but bad if you want to drink).

The standard WRX isnt really on my list at the mo simply due to looks. Anyone comment on the P1's boot size in comparison to the normal turbo/WRX?

Insurance is a little cheaper on the S3 from what Ive seen so far.

Ian E

iTrader: (1)

Why not consider a late MY00 Turbo? - they're still fairly quick you know!

A mate has just bought a mint 1 owner 'X' reg 9000 miles EU Import for £13800 - top value.

Cheers,

Ian.

Great~taste~Bloke

Most mags, humans and nutter drivers compare to s3 with other vw marques. Vw's other brands Seat and Skoda offer a similar package. Although cred and power is slightlty different the money you will save could go on mods to take either of the other cars beyond the s3's performance. Audi does have a great build, beatiful cabin and good driving position. But scoobs give more back to the driver. I liked the s3 when I drove one (more recent higher ouptut version). However my recently aquired P1 is a much better (and quicker) drivers car and similar costs (running/purchasing).
Hope you make the right choice for you.
Matthew

Spudgun GTR

p1fanatic
you need to speak to Chins mate, he's owned both

P1Fanatic

TBH I think the P1 will be my final choice as it could be the only chance I have to own a performance car before I get bogged down with a mortgage or marriage.

My mate just got a 330 Ci Sport which is a very nice car, lot cheaper than an M3 and only a second or so slower 0-60. Thing is its more of what I would want when older and refinement, comfort etc are what Im looking for. I like the rawness of the P1 and it has awesome road presence. When I see when out and about I can spot it from a mile off - a BMW is 1 out of every 10 cars you drive past these days.

P1Fanatic

Oops double post

[Edited by P1Fanatic - 12/27/2001 11:48:00 PM]

LEE P

Well ive had a A3 Tsport quattro and driven numerous S3's. i think driving mine MY00 with eibachs and 17 inch wheels back to back with the S3 it didnt feel as quick and even if it was i couldnt drive it as quick, it was far to soft and understeered terribly, too much body roll. i think id uprate the springs before the chrome mirrors! i drove the A4 1.8T quattro and that felt miles better, just more balanced, and no i dont have a fettish for saloons.
They say the s3 is better than the TT, but the chassis and underpinings are the same, the new S3 has the 225 bhp same as the TT. the scoob has definately more feel through the seat of your pants and the steering, Audi always have probs sorting steering out IMHO, ive had 5 Audis from a quatro 20v to the A3, but the steering is always been vague. servicing isnt bad even at main dealers, intervals of 10000 miles and you would defo get more mpg from the S3.
if you want back road fun get the scoob IMHO, but the S3 has bags of class, gorgeous finish in the cabin, nice 6 speed gearbox and i know which i would want to travel to the south of france in, the S3. but this time i wanted back road fun ability and sharper steering than the audi so i got a scoob.
plus the S3 sounds CRAP! the back box is the width of the car! so that would Have to come off

wilf

The S3 and P1 are in a different league. The S3 is more comparable to a standard MY00/WRX but not quite as good a drivers car as either (although better in other areas if you believe the VW hype). The P1 is a big step up from any of these as it is essentially an STi. More refined better set up and alot faster than the standard car. It is also now available for realistic prices.

Saying that - Latest S3 has been upgraded from 210bhp to 225bhp so is probably looking more attractive than it used to. Current A3 shape is due to be replaced early 2003 though.

To a real car enthusiast I reckon tbis ones a no brainer.

P1 is not really any more expensive to run than standard car save in respect of insurance costs. I get more mpg from mine than my old MY00.

golfturbo

If you get an S3 its very easy to increase the power to 270 bhp 280 lbs torque - H+R srings make a nice difference, as for the sound a milltek exhaust sorts that out....checkout AMD at www.auto-amd.com
The last time i was there they were working on an S3 for an Audi dealer to use as a demonstrator with the above upgrades plus the Porsche 993 Turbo Brake front brake upgrade......you might be able to get a test drive.........slightly fairer comparison to a P1

AJbaseBloke

WADR to lovers of the S3, that drive-by-wire throttle set up is naff - shuts the power off when you hit the brake! Great for those moments when you *need* to left foot brake

Hope they've fixed that...

rr_ww

AJbaseBloke
Thats the Safety feature on all VW/Audis. Yes it's annoying but theres nothing you can do about it. Its the same on all their Deseasels.

Remember also that the S3 isn't a true 4x4. Its predominately Front wheel Drive until it detects slippage on the wheels and transfers power to the rear. (Hydraulic Centre diff) Hence why it understeers at 55mph and over. Also there is a major recall going on with all A3's wherer the rear link arm bearings are seizing then snapping the arm under stress. So make sure your prospective car had had it or it will have to go back for a day. Parts aren't that cheap. r.g. the HID headlights (TT ones fitted are in the region of £800 each!!!!) But you do get a 3 year warranty on most parts as long as the car has FSH.

If it was my money I get the P1. But I am biased against the Audis. Audi/VW unfortuantly are just relying on the history of good solid cars and the quality and design isn't as good as the magazines would have you believe.

MY OPINION NOT NECCESSARILY YOURS.

Cheers!

AJbaseBloke

rr_ww,

I was about to sign for an S4 when the B4 was released - Audi has been trying to get me change over, but all the stuff that was nice about their model was not worth all the extra money - lots of it

Since then I have back to backed the new one vs. the Legacy, and the gap has not changed much (admittedly the Audi is damn quick in a straight line - only ).