SD

Aluminium actually but don't let the facts cloud your opinion.

Also that is an award winning aluminium Rover engine that weighs next to nothing (I can vouch from experience) and the technology incorporated is leagues ahead of most of the competition.

The Elise will be cheaper to run (nr 40 mpg), cheaper to service, give more fun at 'normal' speeds and is all together more special than the Impreza IMO.

[Edited by SD - 12/8/2001 4:36:08 PM]

GranTurismo

Help!

I am in the nice position of trying to choose between a New Elise or a P1.

Now I know this is Scoobynet and I have had a Scooby Turbo for nearly 3 years, but everytime its sunny I crave a soft top (that kicks butt).

I also like the Scooby thing and the "grip and grunt" is sublime. My main concern about a P1 is that you have to be doing silly speeds to extact the driving plesure, whereas an Elise feels quick and "sporty" at more respectable speeds. Basically is the P1 too good?

I do sod all miles, but it will be my only car so the practiclality of a Elise is not good (especially as I play golf). Runnig costs on the P1 will be higher I suppose.

Any help (sensible help)......

davyboy

What about a new STI??

GranTurismo

Hi,

The new scoobs just dont tug the heart strings, but I am considering a new wrx with toys....but the P1 just gets me err excited!

ski

Get the P1 and you won't regret it.
You get a lot for your money.
sorry but Elise is made of plastic and has a Rover engine.should be half price.

drumsterphil

iTrader: (1)

A mate of mine has just bought an Elise and seen as I've just bought a Scoob (std one mind you , not a P1, although I have driven one), we've been doing the comparison thing. Both are about pure driving enjoyement but the Elise you can have real fun at 60mph whereas the P1 only gets into it's stride when getting caught by the old bill is serious penalty time.

It's horses for courses at the end of the day. If you can put up with the impracticality and purely want a smile on your face then go for the Elise, but I think the Scooby is the better alround bet (and I'm not just saying that cos I've got one!), i just think it's better suited for this country to a certain degree (Elise's aren't reknowned for their wet weather grip and then there is the reliability issue - plus modding them costs a fortune).

It's an enviable choice,
Phil

scooby_si

& if we're talking in golf terms then surely u cant fit a proper size bag in a lotus so SCOOBY time! lol
Si

MARK MORRIS

my p1 is better on petrol than my previous 97 scoob
mark

MichelleWRX1994

A P1 every time

jackal

Ive driven or owned all of the following and heres the results IMO as far as involvement, stimulation and fun are concerened..

340r 10/10
Exige 9/10
Evo6 9/10
Elise 9/10
P1 8/10


the evo & P1 are fun in that they are very easy to drive, highly competent and go very very fast A to B wet or dry. But the loti have a transparency, an intimacy, a fluidity and car/driver relationship that Jap cars can only ever dream about. They are true drivers cars whereas the 4wd's aren't by comparison.

Great~taste~Bloke

I have a P1 but the Lotus is so different ,totally impractical but a very thrilling drive (new shape elise even better). I thought you could make up your own mind on this one!
Hope you make the right choice for you.
Matthew

JKJ2

Bit of a strange choice, between the Elise and the P1 even as an only car. The Elise as suggested is all plastic not aluminium, the panels being bonded to an aluminium chassis which cost the earth to repair if you bend it. The build quality on the Elise may be good to begin with but look at models after 2-3 years and notice how rattly and worn the bodywork can(but not always)look. Driving position is good once in but access is awful and more so with the hood up, it's an after thought, although the new hardtop has gullwing type panels to help slightly. The Rover engine in std form, 115 bhp, is underpowered but easily and quite cheaply upgraded 135-160 bhp, generally by the upgrade of cams and chip/air filter, oh and a sports exhaust is a must if only for the sound. There is one great piece of news on the engine front and that's the availability of a Turbo Technics conversion, uses the turbo as a supercharger to give 190 bhp, fully warranted, turning the car into very serious performer. The other good thing is that the Elise has always had rock solid residuals, even after the model upgrade.

Personally I would go for a Caterham SLR, equally as impractical but 100% better drivers car, but I am very biased on that score.

Nothing to add to the P1 that has not be said already, magnificent car, but chalk and cheese to the Elise.

If you are going to use the car for track days then the Elise/Caterham would be your choice, as good as the Scooby is it's just too heavy.

jackal

JkJ2...

I have to disagree with you there when you say the SLR is a 100% better drivers car.

On the track Caterhams are certainly quicker and more sensory but ultimately their handling, whilst being more progressive, is somewhat crude and nowhere near as sweet in feel as the Lotus. Also, the Caterhams I have driven have been very poor on the road with lots of jostling and bumpsteer - IMO they do not make good road cars but are race cars compromised for the road, the exact opposite of the elise. Horses for courses as ever.

What I will say that is that I think that in this day and age (as opposed to 5 years ago when the elise was launched) the power output and engine character of the standard elise is not acceptable. You have to at least go up to a 150bhp elise or 190 or exige/340r to start creating serious alternativies to the caterham. If practicality wasn't an issue Id take a caterham over a 118bhp elise any day.

I still would like to own an SLR for a bit though but persauding the wife that a 340r & and SLR is good, family orientated combination would not be easy ;-)

SJobson

Having just bought an S2 Elise as a second car (alongside a UK Wagon) I feel reasonably qualified to respond on this. And may I put my conclusion first: the two cars are complementary and I'd hate to choose between them.

Basically, drive both for a day and it'll be clear which best suits you. They're vastly different - I've not driven a P1 but I've had my UK car for nearly 18 months, so I know what an Impreza's like. It's the cruiser, practical, sensible, yet well up for a thrash.

The Elise is total sensory immersion. I haven't run mine in yet and still it beats other cars away from the lights and provides enormous grins. The light weight gives it a beautiful low-inertia feel, the steering is just about perfect and the S2 comes with vastly better fit and finish, and a better normal exhaust than the old S1. It also comes on bespoke Bridgestones, which, according to a chap on the Elise BBS, means he corners as quickly in the wet in his S2 as he did in the dry in his S1. The tricky rear end breakaway has been tamed too.

The Elise will be cheaper to run, I can guarantee that. MPG will be 40ish, servicing a K-series is cheap, insurance can be pretty reasonable, and depreciation isn't a big problem (I'm on Lotus finance's winter special offer, and the minimum guaranteed value of my car in 3 years is £15,900 - and that's a worst case scenario, in which case I could hand the car back). P1 depreciation? Well, there are more around than owners, so £16k in 3 years' time sounds ambitious.

Finally - I don't like leaving the Lotus parked on the street, while I don't mind doing so with the Scoob, so that might be a relevant factor. Might be simply because it's my new baby though...

JonW

Cripes this is like a small Lotus fraternity of Scoobynet! Too many names are recognisable, scary...! :-)

Ive had my MY00 UK Turbo saloon for 18months now and ive partnered it with an Elise S2 (picked it up last sat) and have to say even though im running the Elise in, im impressed with both but you cant compare them really. They do make a great combo though with the Elise being more taught and lighter handling than the Impreza which felt like a rattly, loose barge when I shifted it about the driveway last nite... :-(

If I had to choose between them I would take the Impreza as the more practical beast but its far cheaper to run an Elise (MPG and Insurance) etc.

Personally Id leave the P1 now, a year ago it was great just too expensive for mere mortals (and the prices still seem high compared to the list of the new STi)... so I'd say the new STi seems the way to go or if you cant stomach the looks then (and dont let Jackal see me write this) perhaps an Evo 7...

Jon.

CharliePsycho

I had the same choice a little while ago... It all came down to one thing, Passengers.

I've got a wife and kids, I can use the P1 to go to the supermarket and take the kids to school, then when I am on my own on the way back, I can take it for a thrash on the country roads without having to worry about room in the car. Hence I drive the car and wear a grin much more often...

I just wouldn't get the use out of an Elise...

Just my experience!

...©

Skippy

As a suggestion, how about an Elise S1 for 14-16k, put it on a limited milage policy. Then spend 6-8k on a WRX to knock around in as a practical car. In a way best of both worlds.

My Scoob is sold now and i'm buying a Lotus but I do have a company car too.

Skip.

Stephen Read

If you are talking about spending mid twenties another suggestion might be a Boxster....

LHD 2.7's should be about the £25k mark.

jackal

Jonw..

LOL - I actually really like the 7 now ! Am considering changing to one next year but it will have to be when I can get one nearly new for 22-24K. For me the whole point about EVos is the fact that you can have one for low 20 grand.

Skippy..

have you got your R yet ?

matt d

Depends what you are looking for. I had a P1 and loved it when driving in places like Wales and Scotland (if I lived in those places I would still have it), but I sold it because after a while in the crowded roads of SE England it simply couldn't provide the thrills I was looking for at sane speeds. It is extremely fast, and has very stable friendly handling, but you need to thrash it to enjoy it IMO. The Lotus is stimulating even when cruising along at 50mph, albeit not as safe or quick.

When you get onto really great roads or wet/dark conditions, there is no question I would rather be in a P1 than an Elise. It's just that the other 90% of the time the Elise would be more fun IMO.

MichelleWRX1994

Matt have you still got your beemer?

Skippy

Jackel

Should be here this week. Can't wait now

Skip.

Jza

If your looking at spending dealer prices on a P1 i think your mad. I agree they are fantastic cars but they are an old model at the end of the day. If the dealers bring the price to the £20k mark i'd be tempted - but £27+ for an old model.... they are taking the p1ss!!!!

Elise is great (havent tried the mk 2 but loved the mk1 - although its a bit harsh for every day unless your a wooly hat and roof off in winter type person. Be no good if you need to carry anything or you need 4 seats!!!

Have you tried a TVR Tamora.....????

Jza

JonW

Jackal - Agreed 20-22k is about the right price for Evo's, this compares with 18-19 for the same age Impreza, more expensive car to start with etc... I did see an ad for a new 349bhp version of the 7 for mid 30k's! ouch...
I'm hoping the STi UK would be similar money to the 7 after a year, they cost the same to start with etc but if the STi is available in Europe then an import new STi for 20-22 would need careful consideration compared to a used and abused 7.

P1s do seem to be expensive on dealer forecourts, but you have to ask yourself why you would pay the same money for a year / 18month old P1 as a new STi UK?

just my 2p of course...

jackal

I agree about P1's - the one I drove was up for about 27K, I think they still have it. No way - that gets you a spanking brand new Tommi Mak which is one hell of a car or a V plate GSR thats got 6 grands worth of tuning, i.e. 350-380bhp. And IMO the P1 would need its brakes upgrading the minute it leaves the showroom ! Mind you if you're gonna track it same could be said of the evo ;-). 2nd hand Jap Sti type V for 15-20K sounds like a better bargain and its slightly harder edged than P1 so Ive been told.



Skip...

let us know what you think once you had a good drive in the dry in it.


JonW

I was thninking, late next year if yer lucky you might be able to grab a secondhand Warrender 340 or Warrender 380 as tuned by RC developments. Now that would be quite something. The 380 is about 5-6K over the base car so you could get one for around the 27/28K mark. Now 380 brake is gettin pretty serious - faster than the Extreme. Ralliart spend far too much dosh on the internals with their specials.. the engine just doesn't need it.

2WD James

Elise every time, 2 of my mates have them and they are so much fun! The power is an instant delivery and can get you in so much trouble at low speeds espeacialy on round about, which are a major trill!

I guess it depends on weather you want the predicatablity of 4x4 that just understeers or the fun of over steer and weather you think you can control it.

If you get and elise, track days are a must. And you have to do short twisty tracks cos you will love it and on a bit track with long straights you would get killed.

End of they day an elise will do about 125mph top speed, what more do you need, how long do you want to be banned for?!

ELISE EVERY TIME

Z75

The Elise is a very expensive track car for those who can afford it. The fact that you admit that you are out of control on roundabouts clearly demonstrates a Subaru is a better road car. Period.

2WD James

Who said out of control, if you are a good drive it should not be out of control but a way of driving.

Given a dry day a well driven 2wd will whip a 4x4 car.

Z75

You said it!!!

> The power is an instant delivery and can get you in so much
> trouble at low speeds espeacialy on round about, which are a
> major trill!

Now I don't want to get into an argument about semantics but the above seems to suggest 'out of control'.

jackal

"The fact that you admit that you are out of control on roundabouts
clearly demonstrates a Subaru is a better road car."

What like a scooby won't lift-off oversteer or understeer into a curb off a roundabout !! LOL .... Elise just requires more skill and smoothness. If a car being infallible, having ABS/4wd/diff etc. and to drive itself means "better" to you then fine but its not objectively true that its "better", its just what you prefer as a result of your driving style and preference - horses for courses.

NEITHER ARE BETTER, just different and better/worse for different things. Period.