Why Scoobynet is better than auto mags!
08 February 2007, 10:19 PM
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Why Scoobynet is better than auto mags!
After reading most of the car mags from the uk and US over the last 20 years or so I've come to understand that their tests are often not bad but very far from complete. And usually these tests change from month to month based on no reference what-so-ever. Bottom line look at how the press have handled the Impreza all journos have forgotten their praise of only 1 or 2 years ago. As an example evo said the Impreza Spec C was a much much better hanfdling car than the BMW M3csl and since then has reversed its view of the M3 without any further test of the Spec C to prove as much.
Its not only about being a great driver- indeed there are quite a decent number (never enough but still a decent amount)
of very very good fast road drivers; drivers who know how to set a car up for a given corner round the corner and exit it.
The real test to see if one knows how a car handles is if one of these great drivers can imagine what would happen
to his car IF he/she did not make all the right moves. And therein to me lies the problem; with racing car drivers and many
hot shot quasi-race drivers/ journalists their problem is that they think that if they can consistently set a given car up
for a corner and usually get it right or rapidly correct a under/oversteer situation then the car is perfect and safe- and indeed do all this in a matter of hours during a hurried in and out "road test". The problem here is that over real time on real roads even these hotshot drivers will get it wrong or something out of the ordinary will occur, only these road testers will not be around to find it out because they only tested the car for a few hours.
So the question really is over time and many varied roads
a.) how poised and controlled does a car handle
b.) how progressively does the car loose its poise
c.) When the car/driver does loose grip progressively what kind of attitude does this car project- slight understeer/oversteer and is it throttle adjustable or is it brake adjustable or some combination?
d.) how stable is the car and how quickly does a car self-center itself after a loss of grip or after a sudden need to brake fast as opposed to the driver having to stabilize the car him/herself- both of which can work in different circumstances-- one works if there's no road space available then you want self-centering stability and if there is some road room then maybe you want a car that can rapidly be taken by the scruff and adjusted back into the straight-ahead; the point here is that some cars will work better for certain roads based solely on the width of the road and amount of other road users.
It seems most road testers do not bother with details like these anymore. Bottom line it takes too much time and requires far less cars in convoy- with a focus on just a few cars, and takes too much effort/concentration.
The only way to sort out such differences between great cars is to get such diverse cars together and compare in these different
roads/situations, back to back. I think such a magazine/journal could exsist but it would require really enthusiastic and talented editors/drivers, kind of like part time race car driver Mark Hales back when he used to write for
Fast Lane.
The moral of this story is I would hold more regard for scoobynet drivers and their driver reports than the auto journalists- most of the time.
Its not only about being a great driver- indeed there are quite a decent number (never enough but still a decent amount)
of very very good fast road drivers; drivers who know how to set a car up for a given corner round the corner and exit it.
The real test to see if one knows how a car handles is if one of these great drivers can imagine what would happen
to his car IF he/she did not make all the right moves. And therein to me lies the problem; with racing car drivers and many
hot shot quasi-race drivers/ journalists their problem is that they think that if they can consistently set a given car up
for a corner and usually get it right or rapidly correct a under/oversteer situation then the car is perfect and safe- and indeed do all this in a matter of hours during a hurried in and out "road test". The problem here is that over real time on real roads even these hotshot drivers will get it wrong or something out of the ordinary will occur, only these road testers will not be around to find it out because they only tested the car for a few hours.
So the question really is over time and many varied roads
a.) how poised and controlled does a car handle
b.) how progressively does the car loose its poise
c.) When the car/driver does loose grip progressively what kind of attitude does this car project- slight understeer/oversteer and is it throttle adjustable or is it brake adjustable or some combination?
d.) how stable is the car and how quickly does a car self-center itself after a loss of grip or after a sudden need to brake fast as opposed to the driver having to stabilize the car him/herself- both of which can work in different circumstances-- one works if there's no road space available then you want self-centering stability and if there is some road room then maybe you want a car that can rapidly be taken by the scruff and adjusted back into the straight-ahead; the point here is that some cars will work better for certain roads based solely on the width of the road and amount of other road users.
It seems most road testers do not bother with details like these anymore. Bottom line it takes too much time and requires far less cars in convoy- with a focus on just a few cars, and takes too much effort/concentration.
The only way to sort out such differences between great cars is to get such diverse cars together and compare in these different
roads/situations, back to back. I think such a magazine/journal could exsist but it would require really enthusiastic and talented editors/drivers, kind of like part time race car driver Mark Hales back when he used to write for
Fast Lane.
The moral of this story is I would hold more regard for scoobynet drivers and their driver reports than the auto journalists- most of the time.
08 February 2007, 11:00 PM
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I agree.
I stopped seriously reading car mags when after I read a review of the Impreza titleing it as "the best drivers car" and thought wtf? What crap were they smoking when they were plugging away next months article on their apple mac
Road tests conducted with blinkers. Good car, but not "that" good.
Certainly the Impreza in whatever guise it comes in now being criticised is partly down to it being overrated beforehand. And by overrated I mean by putting it above cars which maybe slower or more expensive to buy, but are a better drive.
Another example was going a long time ago when a well known motoring journalist spouted how fantastic teh Aston Martin Vantage was. I fell in love with the car myself just on its looks. But I also had the unfortunate task of driving one on a few occasions. And I cannot stress what an utter pile of junk that the car actually is; it fell to bits, it went wrong; lots, it cost a fortune and it drove worse than an Iveco Eurocargo 7.5 tonner with flat tyres...just with worse brakes and suspension geometry tuned to seek and hold onto every rut in the road. I suppose it is a supercar which naturally get praised for being just that; but you rarely see the same journos praising the driving pleasure of a Lambo Countach do you?
I stopped seriously reading car mags when after I read a review of the Impreza titleing it as "the best drivers car" and thought wtf? What crap were they smoking when they were plugging away next months article on their apple mac
Road tests conducted with blinkers. Good car, but not "that" good.
Certainly the Impreza in whatever guise it comes in now being criticised is partly down to it being overrated beforehand. And by overrated I mean by putting it above cars which maybe slower or more expensive to buy, but are a better drive.
Another example was going a long time ago when a well known motoring journalist spouted how fantastic teh Aston Martin Vantage was. I fell in love with the car myself just on its looks. But I also had the unfortunate task of driving one on a few occasions. And I cannot stress what an utter pile of junk that the car actually is; it fell to bits, it went wrong; lots, it cost a fortune and it drove worse than an Iveco Eurocargo 7.5 tonner with flat tyres...just with worse brakes and suspension geometry tuned to seek and hold onto every rut in the road. I suppose it is a supercar which naturally get praised for being just that; but you rarely see the same journos praising the driving pleasure of a Lambo Countach do you?
08 February 2007, 11:07 PM
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Bubba,
Thanks for the kind words.
"I'm not reading all that.Mainly because it's copied and pasted from another site/post."
NOT
Bubba your obviously too tired to actually read the post, take a nap.
Thanks for the kind words.
"I'm not reading all that.Mainly because it's copied and pasted from another site/post."
NOT
Bubba your obviously too tired to actually read the post, take a nap.
08 February 2007, 11:10 PM
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08 February 2007, 11:25 PM
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Bubba,
You remind me of my middle school teacher always yapping on and on, not about content but the use of a comma versus a semi-colon- as if it really makes any whit of difference.
You must really be bored to be taking me to task like this.
So if I understand your logic, if I were to have cut and pasted this post
it would not be worth peoples time to read, as it would have been
read already and no longer of any importance. Pretty weak argument there teach.
But alas, I'm so sorry to dissappoint the teacher in you, the reason my post comes off looking this way is that I wrote it on my e-mail program at work and then pasted it in. Thanks for your interest.
You remind me of my middle school teacher always yapping on and on, not about content but the use of a comma versus a semi-colon- as if it really makes any whit of difference.
You must really be bored to be taking me to task like this.
So if I understand your logic, if I were to have cut and pasted this post
it would not be worth peoples time to read, as it would have been
read already and no longer of any importance. Pretty weak argument there teach.
But alas, I'm so sorry to dissappoint the teacher in you, the reason my post comes off looking this way is that I wrote it on my e-mail program at work and then pasted it in. Thanks for your interest.
08 February 2007, 11:33 PM
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Bubba,
You remind me of my middle school teacher always yapping on and on, not about content but the use of a comma versus a semi-colon- as if it really makes any whit of difference.
You must really be bored to be taking me to task like this.
So if I understand your logic, if I were to have cut and pasted this post
it would not be worth peoples time to read, as it would have been
read already and no longer of any importance. Pretty weak argument there teach.
But alas, I'm so sorry to dissappoint the teacher in you, the reason my post comes off looking this way is that I wrote it on my e-mail program at work and then pasted it in. Thanks for your interest.
You remind me of my middle school teacher always yapping on and on, not about content but the use of a comma versus a semi-colon- as if it really makes any whit of difference.
You must really be bored to be taking me to task like this.
So if I understand your logic, if I were to have cut and pasted this post
it would not be worth peoples time to read, as it would have been
read already and no longer of any importance. Pretty weak argument there teach.
But alas, I'm so sorry to dissappoint the teacher in you, the reason my post comes off looking this way is that I wrote it on my e-mail program at work and then pasted it in. Thanks for your interest.
Jeremy, you're entirely missing the point. The fecking post is unreadable because you haven't taken the trouble to edit all the glitches that have turned your (no doubt interesting and valid) post into a load of sh1te that no-one can be bothered to decipher. I'm perfectly, in fact, eminently capable of reading extended passages of written English, even ones with dead hard words in them, but a post like that just shows contempt for the reader.
Sorry.
Last edited by Bubba po; 08 February 2007 at 11:39 PM.
08 February 2007, 11:40 PM
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...I'm perfectly, in fact, eminentlycapable of reading extended passages of written English, even ones with dead hard words in them.....
*sorry , in a bit of a sarcastic, bombastic inter-galactic, made out of plastic, dont call me a Spastic kinda mood tonight.. must be something to do with the moon and the snow *
12 February 2007, 09:36 PM
#13
Jeremy, you're entirely missing the point. The fecking post is unreadable because you haven't taken the trouble to edit all the glitches that have turned your (no doubt interesting and valid) post into a load of sh1te that no-one can be bothered to decipher. I'm perfectly, in fact, eminently capable of reading extended passages of written English, even ones with dead hard words in them, but a post like that just shows contempt for the reader.
Sorry.
Sorry.
You may dot your Is and cross your Ts Bubber - But you havent actually contributed anything of any value to this topic. YOU ARE ENTIRELY MISSING THE POINT.
This is not an English lesson.
This is not an English lesson.
This is not an English lesson.
This is not an English lesson.
This is not an English lesson.
This is not an English lesson.
This is not an English lesson.
This is a disscusion about how cars are evaluated.
This is a disscusion about how cars are evaluated.
This is a disscusion about how cars are evaluated.
This is a disscusion about how cars are evaluated.
This is a disscusion about how cars are evaluated.
This is a disscusion about how cars are evaluated.
This is a disscusion about how cars are evaluated.
This is a disscusion about how cars are evaluated.
REPEAT THIS IS NOT AN ENGLISH LESSON FOR THE **** BUT A DISSCUSSION ABOUT CARS.....ER BEING THAT IT IS A FORUM.....ER ABOUT CARS.
Perhaps I have got through
Wheres the Popcorn??
12 February 2007, 09:53 PM
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Jeremys post is not perfect English. But it is readable. He is contributing and aiming to start a debate - So he doesn´t have contempt for the reader as you point out.
You may dot your Is and cross your Ts Bubber - But you havent actually contributed anything of any value to this topic. YOU ARE ENTIRELY MISSING THE POINT.
This is not an English lesson.
This is not an English lesson.
This is not an English lesson.
This is not an English lesson.
This is not an English lesson.
This is not an English lesson.
This is not an English lesson.
This is a disscusion about how cars are evaluated.
This is a disscusion about how cars are evaluated.
This is a disscusion about how cars are evaluated.
This is a disscusion about how cars are evaluated.
This is a disscusion about how cars are evaluated.
This is a disscusion about how cars are evaluated.
This is a disscusion about how cars are evaluated.
This is a disscusion about how cars are evaluated.
REPEAT THIS IS NOT AN ENGLISH LESSON FOR THE **** BUT A DISSCUSSION ABOUT CARS.....ER BEING THAT IT IS A FORUM.....ER ABOUT CARS.
Perhaps I have got through
You may dot your Is and cross your Ts Bubber - But you havent actually contributed anything of any value to this topic. YOU ARE ENTIRELY MISSING THE POINT.
This is not an English lesson.
This is not an English lesson.
This is not an English lesson.
This is not an English lesson.
This is not an English lesson.
This is not an English lesson.
This is not an English lesson.
This is a disscusion about how cars are evaluated.
This is a disscusion about how cars are evaluated.
This is a disscusion about how cars are evaluated.
This is a disscusion about how cars are evaluated.
This is a disscusion about how cars are evaluated.
This is a disscusion about how cars are evaluated.
This is a disscusion about how cars are evaluated.
This is a disscusion about how cars are evaluated.
REPEAT THIS IS NOT AN ENGLISH LESSON FOR THE **** BUT A DISSCUSSION ABOUT CARS.....ER BEING THAT IT IS A FORUM.....ER ABOUT CARS.
Perhaps I have got through
Steve Whitethorn
I don't
think
you have got
through.
12 February 2007, 10:11 PM
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https://www.scoobynet.com/scoobynet-...-my-story.html
12 February 2007, 10:22 PM
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Yes most mags are worse. I just happen to know (obviously as you can read)
the guys at evo a bit better. Indeed yes I do think their quality has gone down, but not because they took a shot at me, rather simply because the mag is getting much more vauge. Mind you I think that when Barker actually makes the effort hes still the best- even if me and him don't get along any more! JL
the guys at evo a bit better. Indeed yes I do think their quality has gone down, but not because they took a shot at me, rather simply because the mag is getting much more vauge. Mind you I think that when Barker actually makes the effort hes still the best- even if me and him don't get along any more! JL
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