medders

ga33a, do you not think that tailgating whilst speeding and on a mobile is dangerous then? No offence to TP1's missus (I've done it myself bar the mobile bit) I don't think you're being very fair on the plod here. We always moan about plod "just" doing speeders and that the real cause of most accidents is not just down to speed. TP1 seems to be asking for an opinion of punishment rather than thinking the plod are "throwing everything they can and hoping it will stick"


Cheers

Medders

edited cos my typings shot

[Edited by medders - 12/5/2001 11:03:12 AM]

ga33a

Hi Z75,

I'm not sure that your reading what I'm saying.

"But is it really necessary to have that have that business meeting or do your hair at 80mph on the bumper of another car?"

I'm agreeing with most of your centiments, however I do feel that we need to exercise common sence in respect to some of the legislation that is, will or might be put into practice.

Gazza

[Edited by ga33a - 12/5/2001 12:51:39 PM]

TP1

My girlfriend has been caught driving carelessly and is going to court. See below.

Driving without due care and attention and without reasonable consideration for other people using the road or place and did drive at excessive speed (75-80 on mototrway) while driving closely behind another vehicle and did fail to maintain safe stopping distance between herself and said vehicle while engaging in the use of a mobile phone!!!

Any ideas of what might happen. I know hanging is now illegal but is she likely to be banned?

Ta muchly for any help.

silverscoobports

if all u need to do is avoid a ban u could be in luck but without knowing all the evidence its hard to say
when i was in the porsche club there was a member who advertised in the post every month with a money back gaurantee that he would save your licence for non drink related offences
find a specialist solicitor or bite the bullet!

TP1

Thanks. Just hope she avoids the ban cos she was actually on the phone to me!!!!

She was driving along the motorway and was a bit close to the car in front doing maybe +5-10mph on the speedlimit on her mobile. Then she got pulled and its all on tape.

JoeyDeacon

I know this is going to make me really unpopular but I hope they throw the book at her. If more people like this were made an example of then clueless people like this might finally get the message. How many innocent people have been killed because of this sort of thing?

Sorry to be so harsh but seeing this sort of thing going on makes me so angry.

carl

Was this 'engaging in use with a hands-free kit' or not?

TP1

True. She knows she was in the wrong though and I know it doesn't make it OK. She has driven for 10 years has a clean licence and a sensible driver(usually). She never drives and uses her mobile and unfortunately for her the only time she did she got caught (which she cant argue with). But I don't think there is anybody on this forum who is the perfect driver.

Just wanted some helpful information.

TP1

No hands free. She got lost and was after directions, no excuse though. Just trying to find out what might happen to her.

Scrappy2

I have to agree with Joey...

Markus

Plod does not like speeders at the best of times, and especially not when your on the phone.

As she has clean licence and been driving for a while the judge might show compasion, then again, maybe not.

Was the purpose of the call and emergency? just curious as if it was "my partner is calling me cos he's just been attacked" type thing rather than "hiya, don't forget to get a pink of milk" then they might be somewhat understanding. though maybe not.

if she is banned then will this effect her job, for example, would she get fired if she could not drive, for example, she was a sales rep? if so then it's worth her mentioning this as well, that she needs her licence for her job, this might reduce a ban to points and a fine, though again, maybe not.

I'm not perfect, I occasionally use the phone while driving and, on motorways, do occasionaly travel, ummm, *cough* *splutter* over the national speed limit *splutter* *cough* so I'm no saint. But usually i've got my earpiece thing in if driving on my own.

Think that as some have said, they have got her bang to rights, not the kind of advice or comments you want to hear, but that's the way it is, and don't take it personally, if I was in the same postion as her then I'd get the same comments on here, well, they'd probably be more offence to me actually! ie; "you stupic **** *****! you deserve it!"

do let us know what happens.

ga33a

Hi TP1,

I can't see how they are going to make the 75 - 80mph stick. Normally the old bill don't bother you until your going over 85.
Seems to me that they are throwing everything they can at her with the hope that something will stick.

Chances are, the mobile phone will be the one that causes the most grief, which I agree with.

Anyway, best of luck.

Gazza

carl

I have a hands-free (20 quid earpiece thing) which is always attached to my mobile whenever it is in the car and switched on. The missus never connects hers up. I can't see why

There's a nice little tray in front of the gearstick on my Scoob which is perfect for an 8210. The earpiece lead clips onto my jacket and I leave it there for the duration of the journey (earpiece dangling unless a call comes in).

Gazza_W

Hello

I was done a couple of years ago for a similar offence.
I had a clean license at the time and had been driving for over 10 years.
I received 9pts and a £200 fine.
My crime was to drive too close to the car in front and the cops accuse me of tailgating(spello ??) and driving over chevron lines which was coming up to an extra lane. I was caught on video by an unmarked police car and made me watch my own video.
The guy in the car I was suppose to have tailgated was doing 60mph in the fast lane and I was behind him for about 2miles and got fed up of him so I just got a bit closer to his bumper !!(But haven't we all done that ??)
Anyway the judge showed no mercy.

Cheers

Gary

beatle

shame somebody didnt throw the book at the silly tart who was driving behind me around the M25 whilst doing her hair!!!!

JASON H

HI MATE,my wife got caught speeding on M6 doing 96MPH. She didnt have to go to court and only got a £60 fine & 3points a let off realy. Its just luck sometimes we honestly thought it was going to be a ban.
GOOD LUCK!
JASON

Jerome

I would advise she pleads guilty and goes to court (that's assuming she has a choice). When in court, show reticence and apologise for letting normally high standards of driving drop, she'll never do it again etc etc.

I imagine they are doing her for all 3 offences to make it seem more serious in court and get her more points. This is because traffic Police take a very dim view of driving whilst using a mobile. The court will probably give her one punishment for the most serious offence rather than totalling up sets of points for each of the offences. Depending on the court she may get a short ban (<56 days) and points, a short ban and no points or just lots of points (I guess about 9). The more impressive she is in court and the more convincing she is about regretting the poor driving, the more likely any reduction in punishment. Be warned that in some (if not all) areas they are clamping down on mobile use whilst driving and if her licence is important, then get some good legal represetation.

Fat Boy Slim

Had a mate at work, who was clocked doing 96 on the M3, the officers report included this

"The VW Passat was so close to the Ford Puma that we were unable to see its registration. It is deemed that had was traveling at the same speed as the Ford Puma, as this distance was being maintained. We were only able to get the Puma registration whilst joining the motorway"

They pulled they guy in the Puma, and he went to court got 3 points and £200 fine.

Dunk

Ellis4779

U may even get a letter for an out of court settlement!! Usually about 75£

Pete

Z75

I had a CD10 on my licence a while back. In my case I slipped on some muck/diesel/ice, wrote off my Alfa and broke my leg. Plod don't like the inconvenience of being dragged out of their hedge hiding spots to clean up after an accident so they stuck a CD10 (8 points and £350) on me. My solicitor said it was tough on me but also said that there was little I could do since it is easy to make a CD10 stick (very little evidence needed). Often you see courts downgrade dangerous driving offences to careless driving through lack of evidence. As my solicitor explained the careless driving is a 'catch all' category. If they can't think of anything they'll get you on that. The upside is that it is not severely punishable. You can't go to jail for it and I believe the maximum points is 9. So from a clean licence you won't get banned but your licence might get a bit soiled.

As expressed by other posters the CD10 would be appropriate for the use of a mobile phone on the motorway. As for those who think that a handsfree kit is any safer think again. It is the conversation that is the distraction not the handset. Apparently the police are trying to get the handsfree kits banned on the basis of these findings. I have to say I agree with them for once.

How about just turning the phone off? (This is coming from somebody who makes his living in the mobile phone industry).

Eddie Thomas

Surely Talking on a Hands Free Kit is the same as Talking to a passenger! Come On ! Does this mean we should all keep silent on car journeys?

DavidRB

I'd have thought smoking a cigarette was far more dangerous...

ga33a

Hi Z75,

Sorry m8 but your chatting b0ll0cks. If the conversations dangerous then, like Eddie says, we'll just have to sit in the car in silence. What about the radio, eating, smoking.

I agree that using a hand-held phone is dangerous, but the rest of it is pathetic, it just gives old bill something else to worry about.

I have now stepped off of my soap box and sat down.

Gazza

ga33a

Hi Z75,

Sorry m8 but your chatting b0ll0cks. If the conversations dangerous then, like Eddie says, we'll just have to sit in the car in silence. What about the radio, eating, smoking.

I agree that using a hand-held phone is dangerous, but the rest of it is pathetic, it just gives old bill something else to worry about.

I have now stepped off of my soap box and sat down.

Gazza

ga33a

Hi Medders,

I do indeed agree that driving 2 inches off the back of the car in front is dangerous. And I also think that driving with a mobile phone is dangerous. My point is (and this has been mentioned elsewhere on the forum) that old bill like to throw as much at you as they can so that they are guaranteed a conviction. It all helps in the new league tables you know

Gazza

Vate

Has anyone seen/experienced the difference between crashing at 70 with only one hand steadying the wheel and two hands firmly gripping it?
I can tell you that the difference is devastating. Total and utter zero control versus full control that's why they always try and make an example of a one handed tail-gater. I maintain that if the police took their efforts onto the M-way with a camera (laps of the M25 would be a good choice) they'd prevent a lot more carnage than by setting up a roadside speed check in a built up area with no accident history. I rarely have to drive on the motorway and usually hate the experience as people seem to think that 70mph driving techniques are the same as those employed at 10mph. I think all new drivers should be shown footage of accidents on the M-way so they can see the difference!

Z75

Yeah, maybe I was being a bit too hard. Why not have a drink or 2 while driving as well, a few beers or vodkas shouldn't hurt. Oh and why not have a toke or two while you're at it.

Everything is distracting. Some things you just have to deal with like passengers, kids in the back etc because a car is made to carry people. But is it really necessary to have that have that business meeting or do your hair at 80mph on the bumper of another car? I'm against Gatsos and speed limits on motorways but if it means repman making million dollar deals at 120mph then maybe we're better off with what we've got.

Z75

ga33a,

i think I'm agreeing with you. Most of us know where to draw the line, what's acceptable and how to have fun without annoying/injuring other road users mainly through experience. Unfortunately there are also a few for whom it is just a step too far to exercise common sense.

So just because it's legal to use a handsfree kit, doesn't mean people should indiscriminately zoom up and down the motorway constantly engaged in telephone conversations. There is a time and place for everything. A motorway traffic jam is a good time to use a handsfree phone as opposed to at high speed.

Somebody mentioned passengers. Well that's different entirely. For instance your passenger will probably stop mid conversation when the car in front carves you up. The radio is a pretty passive device and eating/drinking is not too much effort as long as you make your sandwiches beforehand. It's just that with a telephone conversation your head is normally somewhere else.

Adam M

Would just like to add some bits.

It is not illegal to talk on the phone whilst driving. The police frown on it but can only do you for driving without due care and attention, and for that they need to show you driving poorly, in this case tailgating (or crashing, skidding etc.)

My flat mate at uni did his psychology dissertation on teh effects of talking on mobile phones in order to establish the pros and cons of handsfree kits.

the findings were conclusive (after statistical analysis of course) that the danger was the conversation not the holding of the phone.

this led to the suggestion that engaging in conversation witha passenger would lead to the same problem. This was deemed to not be the case as the passenger is able to moderate teh conversation according to the road obstructions. The passenger is aware of slipping concentration of the driver plus is capable of keeping quiet should teh road require extra attention.

In essence, hands free is not the way, no phone is the only way to do it.

With this in mind, were the police aware of how long she was on the phone for?

If not she could say she merely phoned to ask that directions be texted to her and stopped the conversation as soon as possible, she could also plead she is rightened of getting lost and so was desperate to find her way.

Vate

I would suggest that your friend that carried out the analysis on hands free versus handheld only analysed the correlation between accidents occuring whilst doing one or the other. It is a simple fact that with only one hand on the steering wheel of a car you have c.20% of the control you can exhibit with two hands on the wheel. Any good advanced driving tuition encourages you to keep both hands on the wheel as far as practically possible. A hands free is therefore considerably safer when trying to handle a vehicle during an accident even if the conversation may be the cause.