dyno dynamics
16 January 2007, 07:11 PM
#1
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dyno dynamics
rolling road, i thought these were supposed to be accurate? on two seperate dd rrs within a week, why do i get 30 bhp difference? car felt the same onthe road
16 January 2007, 07:25 PM
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Dyno Dynamics
Interesting....I have run cars weeks apart from both Tegsport and WRC Technologies and found them to be within 3-5 hp of their previous figures...We are atleast 200 miles away from either of them...
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16 January 2007, 08:44 PM
#8
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Well I could give you loads of reasons but instead will ask a few questions 
Which rolling roads did you run on ?
and
Were either of them trying to sell you something
Andy
Which rolling roads did you run on ?
and
Were either of them trying to sell you something
Andy
16 January 2007, 09:15 PM
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without getting into arguements over rrs, one totally unbiased rr higher the other said they could get more power than my tuner and also said my mapper was crap, ps my user name nothing to do with my tuner
16 January 2007, 09:36 PM
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OK, just trying to determine if it was indeed the rolling roads that were inaccurate or, as is more often the case, the operation of them.
Andy
Andy
16 January 2007, 09:57 PM
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Any RR operator worth their salt knows how to inflate or deflate the figures.
Since the recent 'capture' of an Dyno operator doing this, it has (in my opinion) become less popular to inflate the figures. It's too easy to get caught now there are rolling roads popping up at every second motorway junction
What I suspect happens now is that cars may be given a 'low' initial reading when they drive in. This gives the operator more scope for improvement, the opportunity to call other mappers "crap" and helps to justify the cost of any added parts/remapping.
The 'new' power can then be verified anywhere, well anywhere thats not trying to make a fast buck otherwise you could just spend infinite amounts of money and have a car that actually doesn't go any faster !
My advice would be go to a rolling road who doesn't tune your make of car, don't tell them who the mapper was (ps- not me in this case) and tell them you are not spending any money on the car, you are just curious as to its output.
Andy
Edit - this is not aimed at or intended to accuse anyone in particular as I have no idea where this car was tested.
Geez, the things you have to say to avoid a solicitors letter these days
Since the recent 'capture' of an Dyno operator doing this, it has (in my opinion) become less popular to inflate the figures. It's too easy to get caught now there are rolling roads popping up at every second motorway junction
What I suspect happens now is that cars may be given a 'low' initial reading when they drive in. This gives the operator more scope for improvement, the opportunity to call other mappers "crap" and helps to justify the cost of any added parts/remapping.
The 'new' power can then be verified anywhere, well anywhere thats not trying to make a fast buck otherwise you could just spend infinite amounts of money and have a car that actually doesn't go any faster !
My advice would be go to a rolling road who doesn't tune your make of car, don't tell them who the mapper was (ps- not me in this case) and tell them you are not spending any money on the car, you are just curious as to its output.
Andy
Edit - this is not aimed at or intended to accuse anyone in particular as I have no idea where this car was tested.
Geez, the things you have to say to avoid a solicitors letter these days
Last edited by Andy.F; 16 January 2007 at 10:04 PM.
16 January 2007, 10:26 PM
#16
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I think more dyno operators should allow customers into the dyno cell and explain exactly what they are doing...Allow the customer to sit in the car while it is on the dyno and if possible monitor the deltadash live data while doing the power run...This I believe would remove a lot of the doubt customers AND other tuners have in Dyno operators...
Although I cannot mention the name of my company for strict advertising rules I will say that we have always kept an open cell rule and will continue to do so...
Although I cannot mention the name of my company for strict advertising rules I will say that we have always kept an open cell rule and will continue to do so...
16 January 2007, 10:34 PM
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I think more dyno operators should allow customers into the dyno cell and explain exactly what they are doing...Allow the customer to sit in the car while it is on the dyno and if possible monitor the deltadash live data while doing the power run...This I believe would remove a lot of the doubt customers AND other tuners have in Dyno operators...
Although I cannot mention the name of my company for strict advertising rules I will say that we have always kept an open cell rule and will continue to do so...
Although I cannot mention the name of my company for strict advertising rules I will say that we have always kept an open cell rule and will continue to do so...
16 January 2007, 11:00 PM
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i stay in scotland and i dont know of any reputable rr up here....they seem to pretend they know what their doing....if they told me the fuelling was spot on i still wouldnt believe them...itsa a pity.
16 January 2007, 11:36 PM
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Andy just can't leave it alone can he? ... lol...
I wonder how he can sleep with the worry of it all.
My advice is to take a good long look at the graphs, including AFR and boost, then see if you can figure it out. Bear in mind it may be just fine at 4000 rpm, then go off a bit at 5500. Even a slight drop in boost can account for that much adrift at peak revs.
BTW, it wasn't me either!
I wonder how he can sleep with the worry of it all.
My advice is to take a good long look at the graphs, including AFR and boost, then see if you can figure it out. Bear in mind it may be just fine at 4000 rpm, then go off a bit at 5500. Even a slight drop in boost can account for that much adrift at peak revs.
BTW, it wasn't me either!
16 January 2007, 11:58 PM
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Martyn, i'm 100% with you on the explanation of the tuning,you gave me some valuable info yesterday......cheers....
p.s..........she goes like hell......
p.s..........she goes like hell......
Last edited by The Pilot; 17 January 2007 at 12:01 AM.
17 January 2007, 08:10 AM
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rr
I took mine to 3 dd, rr in the space of a week, 2 very near and one about 10 bhp higher, like been said 1 closed the door on me, made out its heath and saftey, got a good fiqure was then told i could not have it as only did it once, it was of course wrc, never again, graph was all wrong upto 4000rpm, waste of time all of them, there all only after your money, just see how it goes on the road/track, the other 2 were corten miller in boston, the other trl in halifax,
17 January 2007, 08:48 AM
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I took mine to 3 dd, rr in the space of a week, 2 very near and one about 10 bhp higher, like been said 1 closed the door on me, made out its heath and saftey, got a good fiqure was then told i could not have it as only did it once, it was of course wrc, never again, graph was all wrong upto 4000rpm, waste of time all of them, there all only after your money, just see how it goes on the road/track, the other 2 were corten miller in boston, the other trl in halifax,
17 January 2007, 11:46 AM
#24
Only been to two RRs. One was PTS in Luton (who were a bunch of cowboys) and the other was WRC. WRC as a RR were good IMO... I watched the runs being done and was able to speak to the tester. They were also helpful when I contacted them afterwards get more data from the runs.
17 January 2007, 11:50 AM
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I have now had a PM from the owner. So lets clear up as much confusion as I can without naming names . Please do not turn this into a bun fight.
1] The car was 30 BHP less elsewhere than it was at WRC Tech or DSA
2] The door is down to protect the hearing of my employees [HSE policy].
3] If an owner wishes he / she may sit in the car & watch/discuss
4] This particular car is exceptionally noisy !
5] At another RR the owner had to go out of the dyno cell as it hurt his ears !
6] We never tried to sell this man anything
7] We never decried his tuner or mapper
Points 6 & 7 took place elsewhere, obviously in an attempt to sell him something !
Regards
Allan
1] The car was 30 BHP less elsewhere than it was at WRC Tech or DSA
2] The door is down to protect the hearing of my employees [HSE policy].
3] If an owner wishes he / she may sit in the car & watch/discuss
4] This particular car is exceptionally noisy !
5] At another RR the owner had to go out of the dyno cell as it hurt his ears !
6] We never tried to sell this man anything
7] We never decried his tuner or mapper
Points 6 & 7 took place elsewhere, obviously in an attempt to sell him something !
Regards
Allan
Last edited by WRC-T2; 17 January 2007 at 11:56 AM.
17 January 2007, 12:23 PM
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Scan the charts and stick them up here, it's quite easy to see if the numbers have been fiddled (bluffing temp and humidity are the normal ways, also the shootout mode has an effect)
Cheers
Cheers
17 January 2007, 12:32 PM
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17 January 2007, 12:33 PM
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Considered one of the best and most accurate.
17 January 2007, 06:58 PM
#29
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Without stirring this up any further ( ! ) is it worth just occasionally considering the possibility that the £20,000 car could be faulty and the £70,000 rolling road could be correct? My guess is there are more faults with the motors than the machines that test them!
Just a thought...
Just a thought...
17 January 2007, 08:49 PM
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Hi Alan
The car ran xxx BHP at DSA then it ran xxx -1 BHP at WRC 2 weeks later, so in essence nothing wrong with the car or the repeatability of the BHP in a properly designed cell. The issue arose when it went elsewhere into a small cell with poorer air flow and suddenly 30 BHP less ! However coincidental this is/was I believe that the company with the lower result also offer " if we remap your car and dont find you more BHP & Torque better driveability etc" then they will do it for free.
So is it coincidence that the result was "down" on the day or something more sinister ??
Allan
The car ran xxx BHP at DSA then it ran xxx -1 BHP at WRC 2 weeks later, so in essence nothing wrong with the car or the repeatability of the BHP in a properly designed cell. The issue arose when it went elsewhere into a small cell with poorer air flow and suddenly 30 BHP less ! However coincidental this is/was I believe that the company with the lower result also offer " if we remap your car and dont find you more BHP & Torque better driveability etc" then they will do it for free.
So is it coincidence that the result was "down" on the day or something more sinister ??
Allan