Grahamwrx

Suggestions on a number of posts and a mention in the latest edition of Jap Performance mag suggest prodrive could be developing a more potent 340/350bhp PPP for the STI. I think Mike Wood mentioned testing a sports cat which i understand the current PPP does not use.

My question is, would i be able to upgrade from the current 320 PS PPP at a later date although i imagine another chip change would be required.

Mike, if your online could you shed any light on this and advise if and when it will be released.

Graham

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

You need to read what mike said not long back about the PPP they have released now (the 320ps one) and that its a little understated in the power

Tony

p1doc

it will no doubt be the next special edition before new imprezacomes out like wr1 before 05 revisions
martin

Grahamwrx

anything else you can add mike ?

MikeWood

Graham

During the development of the 06MY STi PPP we did run the car with a new version of our downpipe and it gave good power and torque figures, similar to or better than figures quoted by other companies offering packages for the car. We decided to not take it this far and this wasn't for marketing reasons so we had something up our sleeve for a future SE

Mike

BlueSimon

Decoding the above messages :

put it through the mikewood filter = yes

Simon

Neil W

Will make insuring them fun! PPP1 or PPP2

p1doc

told you! special edition before next model
martin

MikeWood

Martin

I mustn't have made it clear enough, we haven't 'saved' a more powerful version of the PPP for a future SE. There's noi plans for a SE either.

Mike

BlueSimon

Decoding the above messages :

put it through the mikewood filter = Error 54 : conflicting info

Simon

GazTheHat

scoobycar60

?
"so we had something up our sleeve for a future SE"
?
"There's NOI plans for a SE either."
?
"noi" new word maybe meaning "not that I want to talk about now"?

yesi !

Jamesemt

Sounds to me like he's back tracking

svennard

I have it from very reliable sources that the reason for not taking the PPP past the current 316bhp mark is due to potential future reliability issues with the STi MY06 engine. That is, day to day reliability, and also long term relaibility of engine components above this power level.

Prodrive are the only company supported by a full type approval and subaru warranty, hence max 316bhp, with a safety factor.

Companies such as power station offer more, around 340bhp, with their own 'warranty' - not subaru warranty.

Even power station are reluctant to go past 340bhp without significant engine component mods to prevent possible serious engine failure.

So, summing up, full warranty, prodrive route - nothing past 316bhp
Limited third party warranty - say power station - to 340bhp - maybe more, but partial engine re-build required to upgrade certain engine components.

Mike wood's comments were not very clear - I've read previous posts about the STI MY06 PPP with downpipe, and took it to mean a stage 2 PPP - I can assure you, it's not.

What he means is that, yes, the power can be achieved, in the region of 340-350bhp, but ultimately, Prodrive were not entirely happy with the overall reliability at this power level, and therefore the STi MY 06 PPP was released without the downpipe.

Power station will take you to about 340bhp, but then you're looking at a few grand to open up the engine and replace 'weak link' components before you go any further.

Lets say what some well known persons would like to say;

Had subaru built a stronger engine, the likes of prodrive and powerstation would be in a position to provide a stronger upgrade package.

Anyone who can't read between the lines..well

p1doc

several demo ppp sti's run over max boost/bhp from dynos i have seen,supposedly 316bhp is max safe bhp hence wr1-i wonder how many newage with remap and exhaust mods ~340bhp are still around -i now several that are running fine including several decatted wr1's with some cars running 380-400bhp on near standard internals
martin

Andy.F

That is on a 2.0 though Martin.
The 2.5 can have a (greater) tendancy to boost creep if the exhaust system is too efficient.
The PPP must be able to work in all conditions ie what works fine at 5 deg C may overboost at -20 deg C.
Ideally the 2.5 (and many 2.0's) require a larger wastegate to control the boost pressure.
If you get uncontrollable boost creep at higher rpm then the ECU has lost one of its main safety features, this is obviously unacceptable for warranty purposes.

Andy

scoobycar60

Shame as I would have happily paid for the additional upgrade costs.
I can fully understand Prodrives position on this one - between the devil and the deep blue sea -

The WRX PPP seems to offer much more of an upgrade than the STI version - I do wonder if it is worth it to be honest on the STI although I am sure many will have to have it (myself included)

Are you talking about the pistons or is it forbidden to mention the fact there may be issues with their life expectancy above 350 bhp long term....alledgedly

All seems a bit cloak and dagger....

T5NYW

iTrader: (4)

Ignore the BHP, Engine Torque is the important fiqure

Which would go better?

Car A) 320bhp & 320lbs Torque
Car B) 300bhp & 340lbs Torque

The 2.5ltr PPP fiqures will be achievable to all, different to the Previous 02-04 2.0ltr PPP's IMHO

Ignore all the Pub talk fiqures and drive the car up the road, surely that's what counts and Full Warranty and if Svenard is correct then you wouldn't want to lose the Warranty

Regards

Tony

scoobycar60

Cant argue with that, always want more though Tony.
Would be interesting to compare and overlay dyno maps of UK MY06 Std STI, STI+PPP,STI+POWERSTATION340/340, Std JDM STI and JDM STI+POWERSTATION 340/340 map and compare the area under the curve - have to have been on same dyno same day ideally I know....

Warranty was THE issue for me otherwise probably would have gone your route Tony

T5NYW

iTrader: (4)

True BTW My MY06STiJDM is a 2.0ltr not a 2.5ltr Powerstation has converted mine into a Type20 highly recommended. It has 349.9bhp and 350lbs and a real hoot but I still want more but can't afford it

Absolutely right if you go the "UK" top wack route, then PPP is your only option. IMHO

but if you'd gone the "Supermarket or importer route" and then saved £4K just use it for a Type25 conversion when the candle goes out.

Tony

white

I did contact PS about having the T25 engine installed as this is much stronger engine and they told me that they had discontinued it as they are now using the Cosworth engines. I was told I would be looking at approx £8k for the whole thing including labour.

Beastie

iTrader: (2)

What about the Grahame Goode conversion 370BHP 370Lbft Torque? from the good old UK 2.5 STi. Its definitely what i am looking at.

MTR

I cannot answer your question regarding a 2nd stage PPP, but own a MY06 STI Type UK in standard trim, and when I drove the MY06 STI Type UK PPP was not overly impressed.

That's probably due to the standard cars extremely usable power delivery and torque curve, and not a criticism of the PPP kit.

It droned on the motorway, and after 9 years of Impreza dugga dugga exhaust noise making me slightly deaf is something I can happily live without.
When driving at 70mph, when you dipped the clutch and let the car coast momentarily you realise how much noisier it is over the standard car.
Its not the volume its the frequency that they produce.
Its extremely tiresome.
400 miles to Cornwall with that low frequency drone is something you tolerate, you don't enjoy it.

From 3000rpm to 4500 rpm it pulled very well, and easily revved into the 6000rpm range better than std, but was not the improvement I was expecting.

As the dealer said when you have a good 280ps engine then another 30-35bhp as a percentage doesn't make for a massive improvement.

On my MY02 STI the PPP kit transformed a abysmal car into a car I owned for almost 4 years, and enjoyed immensley, although the noise became tiresome.
Might be an old age problem on my part, but when I can compare the performance on my new quiet STi compared to my old noisier STi, the new one wins hands down.

I will be saving my money this time

Cheers
MTR