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Old 06 April 2006, 06:15 PM
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Soulgirl
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Default Origin B2 Legal Query

I have the Origin B2 - it has terms and conditions like anything else you buy. However, Origin have now decided to levy a reconnection charge of £12.50 if you do not update your subscription every 12 months. Until now, I was able to subscribe for 12 months, wait a further 6 then subscribe again for a further 12 months.

Now, in the terms and conditions below, are they within the law charging this new levy?

1. Basis of the sale
1.1. The Seller (which means Origin Technologies Limited (registered in England under number 03976119) the registered office of which is at Unit 4C The Coda Centre, 189
Munster Road, London, SW6 6AW) shall sell and the Buyer (which means the person whose order for the Equipment is accepted by the Seller) shall purchase the Equipment
(which means the fixed installation speed trap locator known currently as the 'Origin B2') in accordance with these conditions, which shall govern this contract to the exclusion of
any other terms and conditions
1.2. The Seller's employees or agents are not authorised to make any representations concerning the Equipment unless confirmed by the Seller in Writing
2. Specifications
2.1. The Seller reserves the right to make changes in the specification of the Equipment.
3. Price of the Equipment
3.1. The price of the Equipment shall be the price listed in the Seller's published price list current at the date of acceptance of the order which price will be valid for 30 days only,
after which time it may be altered by the Seller without giving notice to the Buyer. 3.2. The price is inclusive of any applicable value added tax.
4. Terms of payment
4.1. The Buyer shall pay for the Equipment in full at the time when the Buyer orders the Equipment.
5. Delivery
5.1. Delivery of the Equipment shall be made by the Seller arranging for delivery of the Equipment to the Buyer. The cost of delivery is included within the price charged for the
Equipment
5.2. Any dates quoted for delivery of the Equipment are approximate only and the Seller shall not be liable for any delay in delivery of the Equipment however caused. Time for
delivery shall not be of the essence of the Contract
6. Risk and property
6.1. Risk of damage to or loss of the Equipment shall pass to the Buyer upon delivery of the Equipment to the Buyer
7. Right of Cancellation
7.1. Where the Buyer is a consumer (that is, a natural person who is acting for purposes which are outside his business) and the purchase of the Equipment by the Buyer
constitutes a distance contract then the Buyer has a right under the Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000 to cancel the Contract.
7.2. If the Buyer wishes to cancel the Contract under the provision of those regulations then:
7.2.1. The Buyer must send notice to the Seller in writing or in another durable medium which indicates the intention of the Buyer to cancel the Contract
7.2.2. The notice should be sent to the Seller at the address at the head of these Conditions or by e-mail to the Seller at the address provided on the Seller's web-site, or by
facsimile transmission to the Seller's facsimile number
7.2.3. If the Buyer wishes to cancel the Contract then the Contract must be cancelled before the expiry of the period of seven working days beginning with the day after the day
upon which the Buyer receives the Equipment
7.2.4. The Buyer must return the Equipment to the Seller at the Buyer's cost (including the cost of all appropriate postage
and packaging).
7.2.5. The Seller shall reimburse the Buyer all sums paid for the purchase of the Equipment, save that if the Equipment is not returned to the Seller at the Buyer's cost, then the
Seller shall be entitled to deduct from the amount reimbursed to the Buyer any cost actually incurred by the Seller in recovering the Equipment
8. Update service
8.1. The Seller shall allow the Buyer to subscribe to its update service. The Buyer shall be entitled to subscribe to the update service for a period of six months from the date of
purchase of the Equipment at no cost. Thereafter, the Buyer may subscribe to the update service at a cost of £50.00 per annum (subject to clause 8.3) payable annually in advance
8.2. The intention of the update service is to make available to subscribers new and revised information concerning the whereabouts of fixed installation speed traps and to allow
downloading via the internet or an optional modem connection to the Equipment of such new, revised and updated information.
8.3. The Seller reserves the right to increase the annual cost of the update service from time to time, and shall give the Buyer not less than 30 days notice of any such increase.
8.4. The Seller reserves the right to terminate the update service for any particular Buyer if it deems it necessary or appropriate for any reason to do so, in which case it shall refund
to the Buyer a proportionate part of the most recently paid subscription
8.5. If a Buyer identifies a fixed installation speed trap not at that time recorded in the data held by the Seller and made available to the Equipment, then if the Buyer notifies the
Seller of the location of that fixed installation speed trap, the Seller shall take such steps as it considers reasonable to verify the location of that fixed installation speed trap, and
shall enter the data relating to it into the database that it maintains, and make that information available to all of its users that subscribe to the update service.
9. Warranties and liability
9.1. Subject to the conditions set out below the Seller warrants that the Equipment will correspond with its specification at the time of delivery and will be free from defects in
material and workmanship for a period of 24 months from delivery.
9.2. The above warranty is given by the Seller subject to the following condition:
9.2.1. the Seller shall be under no liability in respect of any defect arising from fair wear and tear, wilful damage, negligence, abnormal working conditions, failure to follow the
Seller's instructions (whether oral or in writing), misuse, tampering with, opening up of, or attempted alteration or attempted repair of the Equipment without the Seller's approval nor
for any damage caused by the installation or removal of the Equipment otherwise than in accordance with the Seller's written instructions9.3. Subject as expressly provided in these
Conditions, and except where the Equipment is sold to a person dealing as a consumer (within the meaning of the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977), all warranties, conditions or
other terms implied by statute or common law are excluded to the fullest extent permitted by law.
9.4. Where the Equipment is sold under a consumer transaction (as defined by the Consumer Transactions (Restrictions on Statements) Order 1976) the statutory rights of the
Buyer are not affected by these Conditions.
9.5. Whilst the Equipment can currently be owned and used legally in the United Kingdom, the Seller gives no warranty that such will continue to be the case. Should the use or
possession of the Equipment cease to be legal the Seller shall have no liability to the Buyer in respect thereof, and in particular shall have no liability to the Buyer to refund the
whole or any part of the purchase price of the Equipment
9.6. If any claim shall be made by the Buyer under the warranty set out in clause 9.1 the Buyer shall be responsible for the cost of returning the Equipment to the Seller for repair or
replacement. The return of the Equipment to the Seller by the Buyer shall be at the risk of the Buyer
9.7. Where any valid claim in respect of the Equipment which is based on any defect in the quality or condition of the Equipment or its failure to meet specification is notified to the
Seller in accordance with these Conditions, the Seller shall be entitled to replace the Equipment (or the part in question) free of charge or, at the Seller's sole discretion, refund to
the Buyer the price of the Equipment, but the Seller shall have no further liability to the Buyer.
9.8. Except in respect of death or personal injury caused by the Seller's negligence, the Seller shall not be liable to the Buyer by reason of any representation (unless fraudulent), or
any implied warranty, condition or other term, or any duty at common law, or under the express terms of the Contract, for any indirect, special or consequential loss or damage
(whether for loss of profit or otherwise), costs, expenses or other claims for compensation whatsoever (whether caused by the negligence of the Seller, its employees or agents or
otherwise) which arise out of or in connection with the supply of the Equipment or its use or resale by the Buyer, and the entire liability of the Seller under or in connection with the
Contract shall not exceed the price of the Equipment, except as expressly provided in these Conditions. In particular, the Seller shall have no responsibility to the Buyer in respect
of the following:
9.8.1. The failure of the Equipment to provide an alert for a fixed installation speed trap, or the fact that the location of any fixed installation speed trap was not recorded in the
database of fixed installation speed traps held and operated by the Seller and/or has not been downloaded to the Equipment; nor will the Seller be responsible for the failure of the
Equipment to alert to mobile speed traps;
9.8.2. Any fine or other penalty or punishment imposed on or any Notice of Intended Prosecution served upon the Buyer in respect of any road traffic offence;
9.8.3. The use or possession of the Equipment in a country or region where the use or possession of devices such as the Equipment is not legal;
9.8.4. The alteration of the method of operation of any, or the introduction of any novel type of fixed installation speed trap such that the Equipment is no longer able to provide an
alert for those speed traps
10. General
10.1. If any provision of these Conditions is held by any competent authority to be invalid or unenforceable in whole or in part the validity of the other provisions of these Conditions
and the remainder of the provision in question shall not be affected.
10.2. The Contract shall be governed by the laws of England, and the Buyer agrees to submit to the non-exclusive jurisdiction of the English courts
1. Basis of the sale
1.1. The Seller (which means Origin Technologies Limited (registered in England under number 03976119) the registered office of which is at Unit 4C The Coda Centre, 189
Munster Road, London, SW6 6AW) shall sell and the Buyer (which means the person whose order for the Equipment is accepted by the Seller) shall purchase the Equipment
(which means the fixed installation speed trap locator known currently as the 'Origin B2') in accordance with these conditions, which shall govern this contract to the exclusion of
any other terms and conditions
1.2. The Seller's employees or agents are not authorised to make any representations concerning the Equipment unless confirmed by the Seller in Writing
2. Specifications
2.1. The Seller reserves the right to make changes in the specification of the Equipment.
3. Price of the Equipment
3.1. The price of the Equipment shall be the price listed in the Seller's published price list current at the date of acceptance of the order which price will be valid for 30 days only,
after which time it may be altered by the Seller without giving notice to the Buyer. 3.2. The price is inclusive of any applicable value added tax.
4. Terms of payment
4.1. The Buyer shall pay for the Equipment in full at the time when the Buyer orders the Equipment.
5. Delivery
5.1. Delivery of the Equipment shall be made by the Seller arranging for delivery of the Equipment to the Buyer. The cost of delivery is included within the price charged for the
Equipment
5.2. Any dates quoted for delivery of the Equipment are approximate only and the Seller shall not be liable for any delay in delivery of the Equipment however caused. Time for
delivery shall not be of the essence of the Contract
6. Risk and property
6.1. Risk of damage to or loss of the Equipment shall pass to the Buyer upon delivery of the Equipment to the Buyer
7. Right of Cancellation
7.1. Where the Buyer is a consumer (that is, a natural person who is acting for purposes which are outside his business) and the purchase of the Equipment by the Buyer
constitutes a distance contract then the Buyer has a right under the Consumer Protection (Distance Selling) Regulations 2000 to cancel the Contract.
7.2. If the Buyer wishes to cancel the Contract under the provision of those regulations then:
7.2.1. The Buyer must send notice to the Seller in writing or in another durable medium which indicates the intention of the Buyer to cancel the Contract
7.2.2. The notice should be sent to the Seller at the address at the head of these Conditions or by e-mail to the Seller at the address provided on the Seller's web-site, or by
facsimile transmission to the Seller's facsimile number
7.2.3. If the Buyer wishes to cancel the Contract then the Contract must be cancelled before the expiry of the period of seven working days beginning with the day after the day
upon which the Buyer receives the Equipment
7.2.4. The Buyer must return the Equipment to the Seller at the Buyer's cost (including the cost of all appropriate postage
and packaging).
7.2.5. The Seller shall reimburse the Buyer all sums paid for the purchase of the Equipment, save that if the Equipment is not returned to the Seller at the Buyer's cost, then the
Seller shall be entitled to deduct from the amount reimbursed to the Buyer any cost actually incurred by the Seller in recovering the Equipment
8. Update service
8.1. The Seller shall allow the Buyer to subscribe to its update service. The Buyer shall be entitled to subscribe to the update service for a period of six months from the date of
purchase of the Equipment at no cost. Thereafter, the Buyer may subscribe to the update service at a cost of £50.00 per annum (subject to clause 8.3) payable annually in advance
8.2. The intention of the update service is to make available to subscribers new and revised information concerning the whereabouts of fixed installation speed traps and to allow
downloading via the internet or an optional modem connection to the Equipment of such new, revised and updated information.
8.3. The Seller reserves the right to increase the annual cost of the update service from time to time, and shall give the Buyer not less than 30 days notice of any such increase.
8.4. The Seller reserves the right to terminate the update service for any particular Buyer if it deems it necessary or appropriate for any reason to do so, in which case it shall refund
to the Buyer a proportionate part of the most recently paid subscription
8.5. If a Buyer identifies a fixed installation speed trap not at that time recorded in the data held by the Seller and made available to the Equipment, then if the Buyer notifies the
Seller of the location of that fixed installation speed trap, the Seller shall take such steps as it considers reasonable to verify the location of that fixed installation speed trap, and
shall enter the data relating to it into the database that it maintains, and make that information available to all of its users that subscribe to the update service.
9. Warranties and liability
9.1. Subject to the conditions set out below the Seller warrants that the Equipment will correspond with its specification at the time of delivery and will be free from defects in
material and workmanship for a period of 24 months from delivery.
9.2. The above warranty is given by the Seller subject to the following condition:
9.2.1. the Seller shall be under no liability in respect of any defect arising from fair wear and tear, wilful damage, negligence, abnormal working conditions, failure to follow the
Seller's instructions (whether oral or in writing), misuse, tampering with, opening up of, or attempted alteration or attempted repair of the Equipment without the Seller's approval nor
for any damage caused by the installation or removal of the Equipment otherwise than in accordance with the Seller's written instructions9.3. Subject as expressly provided in these
Conditions, and except where the Equipment is sold to a person dealing as a consumer (within the meaning of the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977), all warranties, conditions or
other terms implied by statute or common law are excluded to the fullest extent permitted by law.
9.4. Where the Equipment is sold under a consumer transaction (as defined by the Consumer Transactions (Restrictions on Statements) Order 1976) the statutory rights of the
Buyer are not affected by these Conditions.
9.5. Whilst the Equipment can currently be owned and used legally in the United Kingdom, the Seller gives no warranty that such will continue to be the case. Should the use or
possession of the Equipment cease to be legal the Seller shall have no liability to the Buyer in respect thereof, and in particular shall have no liability to the Buyer to refund the
whole or any part of the purchase price of the Equipment
9.6. If any claim shall be made by the Buyer under the warranty set out in clause 9.1 the Buyer shall be responsible for the cost of returning the Equipment to the Seller for repair or
replacement. The return of the Equipment to the Seller by the Buyer shall be at the risk of the Buyer
9.7. Where any valid claim in respect of the Equipment which is based on any defect in the quality or condition of the Equipment or its failure to meet specification is notified to the
Seller in accordance with these Conditions, the Seller shall be entitled to replace the Equipment (or the part in question) free of charge or, at the Seller's sole discretion, refund to
the Buyer the price of the Equipment, but the Seller shall have no further liability to the Buyer.
9.8. Except in respect of death or personal injury caused by the Seller's negligence, the Seller shall not be liable to the Buyer by reason of any representation (unless fraudulent), or
any implied warranty, condition or other term, or any duty at common law, or under the express terms of the Contract, for any indirect, special or consequential loss or damage
(whether for loss of profit or otherwise), costs, expenses or other claims for compensation whatsoever (whether caused by the negligence of the Seller, its employees or agents or
otherwise) which arise out of or in connection with the supply of the Equipment or its use or resale by the Buyer, and the entire liability of the Seller under or in connection with the
Contract shall not exceed the price of the Equipment, except as expressly provided in these Conditions. In particular, the Seller shall have no responsibility to the Buyer in respect
of the following:
9.8.1. The failure of the Equipment to provide an alert for a fixed installation speed trap, or the fact that the location of any fixed installation speed trap was not recorded in the
database of fixed installation speed traps held and operated by the Seller and/or has not been downloaded to the Equipment; nor will the Seller be responsible for the failure of the
Equipment to alert to mobile speed traps;
9.8.2. Any fine or other penalty or punishment imposed on or any Notice of Intended Prosecution served upon the Buyer in respect of any road traffic offence;
9.8.3. The use or possession of the Equipment in a country or region where the use or possession of devices such as the Equipment is not legal;
9.8.4. The alteration of the method of operation of any, or the introduction of any novel type of fixed installation speed trap such that the Equipment is no longer able to provide an
alert for those speed traps
10. General
10.1. If any provision of these Conditions is held by any competent authority to be invalid or unenforceable in whole or in part the validity of the other provisions of these Conditions
and the remainder of the provision in question shall not be affected.
10.2. The Contract shall be governed by the laws of England, and the Buyer agrees to submit to the non-exclusive jurisdiction of the English courts

[/quote]
Old 06 April 2006, 06:35 PM
  #2  
EVOLUTION
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im not being funny here but it may be an idea to highlight the areas of all that you want people to read specificly. Its not easy to read and there is alot of it.


Might get a good response if you do


john
Old 06 April 2006, 06:37 PM
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ZYRUSS
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Yes they are totaly right in doing what ever it is there doing......



Ps, im sorry but i really couldnt be ar*ed to read all that

as above, highlight the points of interest
Old 06 April 2006, 06:39 PM
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Daz34
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It is crap. As if it costs them anything to actually reconnect you
I remember arguing with them when I renewed mine after a lapse of about three months and they set the start date from when the previous subscription had expired. They eventually gave me my full 12 months.
Shame, as the product itself is first rate.
Old 06 April 2006, 06:44 PM
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ZYRUSS
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Originally Posted by Daz34
It is crap. As if it costs them anything to actually reconnect you
I remember arguing with them when I renewed mine after a lapse of about three months and they set the start date from when the previous subscription had expired. They eventually gave me my full 12 months.
Shame, as the product itself is first rate.

errmmm

so why have telecom companies been doing this for years now, oh, and getting away with it
Old 06 April 2006, 06:57 PM
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Soulgirl
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8.2. The intention of the update service is to make available to subscribers new and revised information concerning the whereabouts of fixed installation speed traps and to allow
downloading via the internet or an optional modem connection to the Equipment of such new, revised and updated information.
8.3. The Seller reserves the right to increase the annual cost of the update service from time to time, and shall give the Buyer not less than 30 days notice of any such increase.
that's the bit regarding their right to increase the annual subscription charge... nothing about new levy's.

1. Basis of the sale
1.1. The Seller (which means Origin Technologies Limited (registered in England under number 03976119) the registered office of which is at Unit 4C The Coda Centre, 189
Munster Road, London, SW6 6AW) shall sell and the Buyer (which means the person whose order for the Equipment is accepted by the Seller) shall purchase the Equipment
(which means the fixed installation speed trap locator known currently as the 'Origin B2') in accordance with these conditions, which shall govern this contract to the exclusion of any other terms and conditions
Does this not protect me from any change of other terms and conditions?
Old 06 April 2006, 07:02 PM
  #7  
Soulgirl
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Actually... I think I fooked by their use of the word Annual! Perhaps I could try another angle, their customer service bloke started chatting me up asking if he could guess my age after having perused my website... stalker LOL
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