How safe really are top speed runs on our engines?
21 September 2005, 09:30 PM
#1
How safe really are top speed runs on our engines?
There's a magazine shoot going on in a couple of weeks that I'd like to attend at Bruntingthorpe but they want to test the cars from 0-60, 0-100 & top speed.
I'm more than happy to do the 0-60 & 0-100 sprints but I'm not sure of the reliabilty of a top speed run
My car is a Subaru Legacy turbo so it runs a chargecooler instead of a top mount intercooler is this likely to make a real difference? I have heard so many of these bloody horror stories so I'd like to try and find out how true they are.
This is my spec
TD05 with flowed exhaust housing,
k&n cone from sti5, apexi inlet pipe,
h&s backbox,
scoobysport 3"->2.5" downpipe,
decat center section from Impreza adapted to fit,
VOS chip running 0.9 bar(soon to be running 16.5psi as mapped for via a dawes),
Impreza 2000 wheels, not important for this test
4 pots with ebc disks,
pagid pads & braided hoses,
early Impreza wrx springs,
late wrx classic interior,
greddy boost gauge,
uprated clutch.
What are your thoughts please?
Thanks
I'm more than happy to do the 0-60 & 0-100 sprints but I'm not sure of the reliabilty of a top speed run
My car is a Subaru Legacy turbo so it runs a chargecooler instead of a top mount intercooler is this likely to make a real difference? I have heard so many of these bloody horror stories so I'd like to try and find out how true they are.
This is my spec
TD05 with flowed exhaust housing,
k&n cone from sti5, apexi inlet pipe,
h&s backbox,
scoobysport 3"->2.5" downpipe,
decat center section from Impreza adapted to fit,
VOS chip running 0.9 bar(soon to be running 16.5psi as mapped for via a dawes),
Impreza 2000 wheels, not important for this test
4 pots with ebc disks,
pagid pads & braided hoses,
early Impreza wrx springs,
late wrx classic interior,
greddy boost gauge,
uprated clutch.
What are your thoughts please?
Thanks
22 September 2005, 12:05 AM
#3
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Originally Posted by paulpalmer
Doesn't anyone know?
The only impreza i had flat out war a MY98 JDM WRX which pulled to the rev limiter in 5th. I didn't look at the clocks but 7600rpm in top should have shown 170mph on the clock. The car felt bad as there was no down force on the front and I was losing any feel through the steering wheel, the turbo went pop the next day as well.....
I dont see the point of it in a scooby...if you like to see TOP speeds, get a 1000cc bike
22 September 2005, 12:16 AM
#4
Originally Posted by andy_scouser
I dont see the point of it in a scooby...if you like to see TOP speeds, get a 1000cc bike
I know my acceleration isn't as quick as these mental cars about now though The magazine wants a top speed run apparently and I'm not up for that.
22 September 2005, 12:19 AM
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Originally Posted by paulpalmer
That's my point, that's not what the scooby or my car is all about. I aim for acceleration not top speed because top speed is useless in the uk I know my acceleration isn't as quick as these mental cars about now though The magazine wants a top speed run apparently and I'm not up for that.
I know my acceleration isn't as quick as these mental cars about now though The magazine wants a top speed run apparently and I'm not up for that.
22 September 2005, 10:10 AM
#7
Scooby Senior
Unless your car is specifically designed for top speed grunt then I dont see the point.
You will put strain on your engine just to tell you what you already know.
You will put strain on your engine just to tell you what you already know.
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22 September 2005, 10:43 AM
#10
Originally Posted by +Doc+
Unless your car is specifically designed for top speed grunt then I dont see the point.
You will put strain on your engine just to tell you what you already know.
You will put strain on your engine just to tell you what you already know.
Originally Posted by Granby
Go for the top speed run then back off & make up some excuse 
Originally Posted by Spec'c'57
i doubt very much you will get near to the top end @ brunters... couldnt in the spec'c'. altho could have just been me.....
22 September 2005, 11:51 AM
#11
Horses for courses.
depends on the ingredients in the saucepan, for example a typical blowup scienario
An JDM Sti or WRX RA, delimited, never mapped for uk fuel, decat, filter, well "used" (thrashed), unconfirmed original mileage (may have lost a few going from km to miles at the docks ) ran on optimax, and used with normal recommended oils for most of its life in the UK detting its head off......blows up at 130mph sustained (rough max rpm with the shorter RA gearing). Very typical, and happens quite alot with the owners crying.....I though my car was fine and saying aren't these supposed to be bulletproof?? Obviously there are things wrong with this car...fuel and mapping and possibly a MAF problem.....it happens alot here doesn't it?
Cue bog standard, never messed with virgin UK car, known history....Conservatively driven, ran on 95Ron, when used hard it is used with HQ synthetic oils (for hard use most subaru manuals reccomend different oil grades...see "towing or hillclimbing"...i.e thrashing it
) the MAF sensor is known to be in full working order, and hasn't sufferred any previous MAF failures (can lead to culmative damage interms of big end bearing wear).
That car will probably never have a problem.
Going back to the JDM STi or wrx RA. Get the same car, (with new engine )conservatively mapped for 97RON, but ran on optimax taking into account decats and other mods, MAF known to be healthy, No dodgy mods, and ran on good oils for the intended use (as mentioned - hard use requires different oil ). And it'll probably be ok day in day out. 
Bottom line is its down to the individuals car, its history, the mods and conservative ECU mapping (i.e focus on reliability and compensation for poor fuel...not just for power). And its overall condition (engine could be fairly worn out without you knowing it...until the next time you thrash it or change the oil )
Not sure why, but Legacy engines always seem to be more reliable than Imprezas...not sure if this is because there are less of them about or they run less bhp or the chargecooler gove better temp stability. Maybe it's just that the UK isn't so badly infested with dog rough time bomb imports or badly modded (or driven ) Uk cars with delicate MAFs. Who knows, but Legacys do last longer 
So it's your call...
You could always plumb your charge cooler into your heater...and run the fans on full blast. Should help with the charge temps LOL (wouldn't be the worst dodgy mod I have seen )
depends on the ingredients in the saucepan, for example a typical blowup scienario
An JDM Sti or WRX RA, delimited, never mapped for uk fuel, decat, filter, well "used" (thrashed), unconfirmed original mileage (may have lost a few going from km to miles at the docks
) ran on optimax, and used with normal recommended oils for most of its life in the UK detting its head off......blows up at 130mph sustained (rough max rpm with the shorter RA gearing). Very typical, and happens quite alot with the owners crying.....I though my car was fine and saying aren't these supposed to be bulletproof?? Obviously there are things wrong with this car...fuel and mapping and possibly a MAF problem.....it happens alot here doesn't it?Cue bog standard, never messed with virgin UK car, known history....Conservatively driven, ran on 95Ron, when used hard it is used with HQ synthetic oils (for hard use most subaru manuals reccomend different oil grades...see "towing or hillclimbing"...i.e thrashing it
) the MAF sensor is known to be in full working order, and hasn't sufferred any previous MAF failures (can lead to culmative damage interms of big end bearing wear). That car will probably never have a problem.
Going back to the JDM STi or wrx RA. Get the same car, (with new engine
)conservatively mapped for 97RON, but ran on optimax taking into account decats and other mods, MAF known to be healthy, No dodgy mods, and ran on good oils for the intended use (as mentioned - hard use requires different oil ). And it'll probably be ok day in day out. Bottom line is its down to the individuals car, its history, the mods and conservative ECU mapping (i.e focus on reliability and compensation for poor fuel...not just for power). And its overall condition (engine could be fairly worn out without you knowing it...until the next time you thrash it or change the oil
)Not sure why, but Legacy engines always seem to be more reliable than Imprezas...not sure if this is because there are less of them about or they run less bhp or the chargecooler gove better temp stability. Maybe it's just that the UK isn't so badly infested with dog rough time bomb imports or badly modded (or driven
) Uk cars with delicate MAFs. Who knows, but Legacys do last longer So it's your call...
You could always plumb your charge cooler into your heater...and run the fans on full blast. Should help with the charge temps LOL
(wouldn't be the worst dodgy mod I have seen )
Last edited by ALi-B; 22 September 2005 at 11:56 AM.
22 September 2005, 01:37 PM
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Originally Posted by paulpalmer
There's a magazine shoot going on in a couple of weeks that I'd like to attend at Bruntingthorpe but they want to test the cars from 0-60, 0-100 & top speed.
I'm more than happy to do the 0-60 & 0-100 sprints but I'm not sure of the reliabilty of a top speed run
My car is a Subaru Legacy turbo so it runs a chargecooler instead of a top mount intercooler is this likely to make a real difference? I have heard so many of these bloody horror stories so I'd like to try and find out how true they are.
This is my spec
TD05 with flowed exhaust housing,
k&n cone from sti5, apexi inlet pipe,
h&s backbox,
scoobysport 3"->2.5" downpipe,
decat center section from Impreza adapted to fit,
VOS chip running 0.9 bar(soon to be running 16.5psi as mapped for via a dawes),
Impreza 2000 wheels, not important for this test
4 pots with ebc disks,
pagid pads & braided hoses,
early Impreza wrx springs,
late wrx classic interior,
greddy boost gauge,
uprated clutch.
What are your thoughts please?
Thanks
I'm more than happy to do the 0-60 & 0-100 sprints but I'm not sure of the reliabilty of a top speed run
My car is a Subaru Legacy turbo so it runs a chargecooler instead of a top mount intercooler is this likely to make a real difference? I have heard so many of these bloody horror stories so I'd like to try and find out how true they are.
This is my spec
TD05 with flowed exhaust housing,
k&n cone from sti5, apexi inlet pipe,
h&s backbox,
scoobysport 3"->2.5" downpipe,
decat center section from Impreza adapted to fit,
VOS chip running 0.9 bar(soon to be running 16.5psi as mapped for via a dawes),
Impreza 2000 wheels, not important for this test
4 pots with ebc disks,
pagid pads & braided hoses,
early Impreza wrx springs,
late wrx classic interior,
greddy boost gauge,
uprated clutch.
What are your thoughts please?
Thanks
It also seems that a lot of rebuilds tend to be preceeded by a Vmax run.
You may get away with it for brief bursts...but it's not really worth the risk IMHO.
That said, IRC Andy F's car has a modified top mount and he just acheived 199 and nothing broke, so maybe I'm talking out my bottom!
22 September 2005, 01:58 PM
#19
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Originally Posted by Granby
Andy F's car now runs a front mount
I read about the top mount in the first edition of Scooby Mag, so I guess its a little out of date. NS04
22 September 2005, 02:01 PM
#20
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Originally Posted by Granby
Andy F's car now runs a front mount
That's a good set of figures.NS04
22 September 2005, 02:01 PM
#21
Originally Posted by ALi-B
Horses for courses.
depends on the ingredients in the saucepan, for example a typical blowup scienario
An JDM Sti or WRX RA, delimited, never mapped for uk fuel, decat, filter, well "used" (thrashed), unconfirmed original mileage (may have lost a few going from km to miles at the docks ) ran on optimax, and used with normal recommended oils for most of its life in the UK detting its head off......blows up at 130mph sustained (rough max rpm with the shorter RA gearing). Very typical, and happens quite alot with the owners crying.....I though my car was fine and saying aren't these supposed to be bulletproof?? Obviously there are things wrong with this car...fuel and mapping and possibly a MAF problem.....it happens alot here doesn't it?
Cue bog standard, never messed with virgin UK car, known history....Conservatively driven, ran on 95Ron, when used hard it is used with HQ synthetic oils (for hard use most subaru manuals reccomend different oil grades...see "towing or hillclimbing"...i.e thrashing it ) the MAF sensor is known to be in full working order, and hasn't sufferred any previous MAF failures (can lead to culmative damage interms of big end bearing wear).
That car will probably never have a problem.
Going back to the JDM STi or wrx RA. Get the same car, (with new engine )conservatively mapped for 97RON, but ran on optimax taking into account decats and other mods, MAF known to be healthy, No dodgy mods, and ran on good oils for the intended use (as mentioned - hard use requires different oil ). And it'll probably be ok day in day out.
Bottom line is its down to the individuals car, its history, the mods and conservative ECU mapping (i.e focus on reliability and compensation for poor fuel...not just for power). And its overall condition (engine could be fairly worn out without you knowing it...until the next time you thrash it or change the oil )
Not sure why, but Legacy engines always seem to be more reliable than Imprezas...not sure if this is because there are less of them about or they run less bhp or the chargecooler gove better temp stability. Maybe it's just that the UK isn't so badly infested with dog rough time bomb imports or badly modded (or driven ) Uk cars with delicate MAFs. Who knows, but Legacys do last longer
So it's your call...
You could always plumb your charge cooler into your heater...and run the fans on full blast. Should help with the charge temps LOL (wouldn't be the worst dodgy mod I have seen )
depends on the ingredients in the saucepan, for example a typical blowup scienario
An JDM Sti or WRX RA, delimited, never mapped for uk fuel, decat, filter, well "used" (thrashed), unconfirmed original mileage (may have lost a few going from km to miles at the docks
) ran on optimax, and used with normal recommended oils for most of its life in the UK detting its head off......blows up at 130mph sustained (rough max rpm with the shorter RA gearing). Very typical, and happens quite alot with the owners crying.....I though my car was fine and saying aren't these supposed to be bulletproof?? Obviously there are things wrong with this car...fuel and mapping and possibly a MAF problem.....it happens alot here doesn't it?Cue bog standard, never messed with virgin UK car, known history....Conservatively driven, ran on 95Ron, when used hard it is used with HQ synthetic oils (for hard use most subaru manuals reccomend different oil grades...see "towing or hillclimbing"...i.e thrashing it
) the MAF sensor is known to be in full working order, and hasn't sufferred any previous MAF failures (can lead to culmative damage interms of big end bearing wear). That car will probably never have a problem.
Going back to the JDM STi or wrx RA. Get the same car, (with new engine
)conservatively mapped for 97RON, but ran on optimax taking into account decats and other mods, MAF known to be healthy, No dodgy mods, and ran on good oils for the intended use (as mentioned - hard use requires different oil ). And it'll probably be ok day in day out. Bottom line is its down to the individuals car, its history, the mods and conservative ECU mapping (i.e focus on reliability and compensation for poor fuel...not just for power). And its overall condition (engine could be fairly worn out without you knowing it...until the next time you thrash it or change the oil
)Not sure why, but Legacy engines always seem to be more reliable than Imprezas...not sure if this is because there are less of them about or they run less bhp or the chargecooler gove better temp stability. Maybe it's just that the UK isn't so badly infested with dog rough time bomb imports or badly modded (or driven
) Uk cars with delicate MAFs. Who knows, but Legacys do last longer So it's your call...
You could always plumb your charge cooler into your heater...and run the fans on full blast. Should help with the charge temps LOL
(wouldn't be the worst dodgy mod I have seen )
My car has only had 3 or 4 previous owners and was pretty much standard when I got it. I've done all of the mods myself and I have only covered 1000 miles in the car since buying it and probably less than 600 since it's been finished to this spec. The car is always warmed up correctly and cooled down for a long period after use manually because I don't use a turbo timer & the last mile or so of each journey is driven off boost (which is no fun
)As far as I know and I can research this the VOS chip that I've got in there is quite a conservative map and there haven't been any reports that I've heard of with people using it. It's mapped for 95ron so it is perfect for UK fuel although I've never used anything other than Optimax in there and so did the previous owner.
The car does run a chargecooler which may make a difference but there have been a few standard Legacy engine failures recently. One was probably due to a bad service and blew up shortly after and the others have been twin turbos.
Thanks
22 September 2005, 02:06 PM
#22
Originally Posted by Neilo
can i do it?
It's a Legacy feature 
Originally Posted by BOB'5
me too. me too.
as above
Originally Posted by BOB'5
what mag?
Originally Posted by New_scooby_04
Paul, personally, I wouldn't mate. Most Folk I've spoken to that know about Scooby engines say that owing to the design of the bonnet, the aerodynamics are such that even if you've got a larger scoop and intercooler, a top mounted intercooler just won't be getting the air necesary to keep the intake temps down above 120 mph.
It also seems that a lot of rebuilds tend to be preceeded by a Vmax run.
You may get away with it for brief bursts...but it's not really worth the risk IMHO.
That said, IRC Andy F's car has a modified top mount and he just acheived 199 and nothing broke, so maybe I'm talking out my bottom!
It also seems that a lot of rebuilds tend to be preceeded by a Vmax run.
You may get away with it for brief bursts...but it's not really worth the risk IMHO.
That said, IRC Andy F's car has a modified top mount and he just acheived 199 and nothing broke, so maybe I'm talking out my bottom!
Andy's car runs a front mount now though doesn't it? I'm sure when I saw it at TOTB4 it did.
22 September 2005, 02:09 PM
#23
Originally Posted by New_scooby_04
How's that new turbo working out for you Granby? That's a good set of figures.
NS04
That's a good set of figures.NS04
, could do with a bit more torque though , very happy with the turbo but do i stop now or carry on
22 September 2005, 02:14 PM
#24
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which turbo you got on it now? 16g? time for you to take it up the strip again matey
Last edited by Neilo; 22 September 2005 at 02:16 PM.
22 September 2005, 02:27 PM
#25
Originally Posted by Neilo
which turbo you got on it now? 16g? time for you to take it up the strip again matey
, last time i went up the strip i couldn't improve my times from before i had the VF34 , now i'm thinking with that power & torque will the gearbox last or the clutch (still the standard clutch at the moment) as it did start to smell after 3 runs last time 
22 September 2005, 02:50 PM
#26
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dont worry about the strip mate....ive been putting 360 through mine, and heading for 400 on sunday the gearbox is fine.....its just the clutch is beginning to die...youd be surprised at how resiliant it is.
the gearbox is fine.....its just the clutch is beginning to die...youd be surprised at how resiliant it is.
22 September 2005, 02:52 PM
#27
Originally Posted by Neilo
dont worry about the strip mate....ive been putting 360 through mine, and heading for 400 on sunday the gearbox is fine.....its just the clutch is beginning to die...youd be surprised at how resiliant it is.
the gearbox is fine.....its just the clutch is beginning to die...youd be surprised at how resiliant it is.Then BANG!
22 September 2005, 02:57 PM
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sorry i didnt mean thebox was resiliant, the clutch can be though
thing is bob you were going every week!! how many drag runs did you do on yours before it died? i think ive done about 35 on mine....
thing is bob you were going every week!! how many drag runs did you do on yours before it died? i think ive done about 35 on mine....
