scooby11

Hello,

Thanks for your replies/advice on previous posts, need some more advice on a car I am going to view today/tomorrow.

Its a MY99 in blue full S/History, at an independant dealer in Stevenage, however, on the phone, the dealer mentioned that the previous owner had it chipped to 'around 300bhp', but he had no more details for me. Does that mean the same as a PPP upgrade?

My question is, how detectable is this modification for insurance purposes? Am I likely to get away with not declaring it? Or is that a bad move? Is this sort of a modification reversable if insurance is too high?

Also, is there any way of telling what sort (or make) of chip is in there when I go to have a look? The dealer said there were plenty of receipts, so may be worthwhile sifting through them to find the invoice for the re-chip.

When I called Elephant, they said that they would need more details on the make of the chip and the %age increase in the bhp.

Any advice would be appreciated.

many thanks
n.

EddScott

You really need to find out what exactly has been done to the car. If a standard MY99 puts out 215hp ish then the fitting of a chip with no other mods will not get the engine to produce 300hp.

If the car has had whats known as a remap (explanation easy to find on SN) then its output may be increased.

As for insurance, whatever mods you have and don't declare, if they are found the insurer will quite probably not pay out. Remaps of the OE ECU are harder to find but not impossible - if it has had some sort of additional PCB fitted (daughter board - don't know if this is done on 99 ECUs btw) then opening the ECU will determine if its been fiddled with.

Just run through the receipts and see whats been fitted to the car. If the dealer is saying "Yeah mate, its been chipped so its running over 300 brake" then personally that would put me off buying the car in the first place becuase its unlikely he knows what he's talking about and just trying to get rid.

Graz

PPP ups the BHP on a MY99 to around 240-250bhp.

I assume this is a UK car you are looking at as opposed to a JDM.

300bhp is quite alot for a classic and would require supporting modifications, I doubt the TD04 turbo fitted as standard to the MY99 could provide that sort of bhp so perhaps a bigger turbo has been fitted. If so then a lot else needs to change, bigger injectors, uprated fuel pump, fuel pressure reg. etc. The MY99 model is one of the first that can be remapped with the ECUTEK software, no chips etc. are added, the ECU is reprogrammed via a laptop plugged into the diagnostics socket.

Personally I would steer well clear unless I had a full spec. as to what has been done to the car and a full appreciation of the implications in terms of stresses to the engine and drive train. There are quite a few MY99/00 for sale with history as to the modification state and you may even find an unmolested example, though most would have had at least a louder backbox by now I'd of thought

scooby11

Thanks Eddscott and Graz,

I am debating whether to view the car or not, considering the responses I have had and also spoken to another friend. I have asked the dealer to sift through the receipts to get more details and shall see what he comes up with.

Its done 57k miles, and is up for sale for £7k, so I thought that was quite a good price, but presumably there are very few people out there ready to buy a modified scooby with no history of the mods..

It is a UK car, though you're right, it would need quite a lot done to it to get upto 300bhp.

THere's no point of going to see it if it is wise to stay away from it, as I may be tempted to get it.......the exhaust note of a scooby is too addictive!!

Thanks again.
N.

SlowBoy

iTrader: (1)

If it aint too far then why not take a look. It's not unusual for dealers to not know much about modifications done to a car. You could even be in for a real bargain. There might be thousands of pounds worth of well planned mods but you won't know till you check it out.

The ecu is located in the passenger footwell, right hand side . Peel back the carpet and you'll see it.

Peanuts

iTrader: (15)

take a 10mm socket though and lift the metal cover plate first

chris singleton

It's probably just had a PPP pack fitted and the dealer is trying to "big up" the power hoping you're a muppet that knows **** all about scoobs.

Well worth going to see, as mentioned above, it might be the dealer who knows **** all and it might have £1000's of mods.

No harm in looking - unless you're travelling 100's of miles to get there.

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

I think Chris may be right, just the dealer trying to sell the car! AFAIK, unless you're prepared to start spending quite a lot of money, 270ish is about the maximum that can be reliably acheived with an MY99/00 usually via a decat exhaust and a Ecutek remap (the latter is what Prodrive use).

You'll need to see all the documentation especially those pertaining to power increases, find out who did the work. Then come back on here. It's possible it could be a very nicely modified example, but equally it might be one that's about to go pop! A full inspection (subaru or specialist) is critical IMHO.

As for insurance, I'm afraid you HAVE to declare your mods, there are no two ways about it: if you don't and get caught out, the insurance company will tell you to get lost in the event of a claim.

Best of luck
NS04

scooby11

Thanks for that, I think I'm going to have a look on Saturday, and will have a look for the ECU in the passenger footwell. Hopefully he has found the receipts in question.

Also, if it has just had a PPP fitted, is this reversible? If so, where could I get this done and approximately how much would it cost?

Thanks

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Yes as it's only a backbox, uprated intercooler piping and a reprogrammed ECU, but there is no reason why you would really. PPP is the official tuning package fully approved by Subaru- very safe. Th reason people go down other routes is that PPP is rather expensive and bigger gains can be had elsewhere -as safely if you use he right mapper- if warranty isn't an issue.

NS04

scooby11

Thanks NS04,

Let's hope there is adequate documentation for me to come back and post details of the modifications and get advice....

N.

fitzscoob

id check the car carefully, personally id say it was cheap, I would not be selling my my99 for 7k, possibly a little more so I would expect a garage to be charging around a grand more. See what the condition its in.

FWIW My99 full decat, ecutek 3 remap - would imagine the bhp around the 260 - 280 (maximum, with a following wind, on generous rollers, with people pushing) ish mark, cant see how its getting to 300 with just the engine being chipped, sounds like salesman rounding up the figures generously or he doesnt have a clue.

Graz

Not so. Prodrive didn't start ECU remapping with ECUTEK until the new age cars. PPP for MY99/00 uses a replacement ECU which I think (correct me if I'm wrong someone) is an STI one, if so it will have the pink STI sticker on it. They also "tampered" with it internally to set the boost levels. Nothing as elegant as ECUTEK for this particular PPP variant I'm afraid

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

I'm in the area over the weekend, so if you want me to pop along with you and look it over let me know.

Bob

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

I stand corrected!

That means, if you wanted to revert to std, you'd have to sell the PPP ECU which shouldn't be hard, but also presumably get the boost reverted to std too?

NS04

Graz

Sorry, I mean the boost tampering was within the ECU as well, a piggyback to rescale the MAP signal or something along those lines.

MY99/00 PPP was replacement ECU, upgraded intercooler piping, exhaust de-cat centre and backbox.

fitzscoob

if you are anywhere near the hoddesdon area over the weekend, id be happy to take you for a little spin in my car as documented above so you can get the feel of the type of power output etc.

scooby11

Thanks for all the advice, great forum this is....

I called the insurance company and they said that a 0-10% bhp increase is going to add approx £140 to the premium, however a 11-25% bhp increase would add about £480!!! That's ridiculous.... Therefore even a normal PPP is I think out of reach, as it would be above the 10% threshold. i.e (245-210)/210

The dealer came back to me saying that he had spoken to the previous owner (2nd owner) who said that the guy before him (1st owner) had done the mods. The dealer called 1st owner up who said that there were no mods done at all!!

To cut a long story short, it may just be a 'standard' spec, and the dealer was simply 'conned' to believe that it had 300bhp when taking in the part ex. Does that sound reasonable? Or is the dealer trying to say 'it aint modified' so as to make it easier to sell?

I think I will definately go and have a look, as if it is a standard spec, then its quite reasonably priced....

Bob, I may just take you up on the offer, if you are around the area? Would be useful to have someone knowledged with me.

Fitzscoob, I'll let you know if I am around the area, though not likely.. thanks for the offer..

thanks again
N.

Aztec Performance Ltd

iTrader: (234)

Yep. No probs. Just PM me your mobile number and we'll take it from there.

Bob

pslewis

I would take Bob up on his kind offer!!

I guess that the dealer was trying to 'talk-up' the car ...... thinking you might be a NovaBoy easily impressed by a 300BHP claim, maybe its just completely standard and if it is its cheap at £7k I would say??

A modified car would need to have a screen price of £1000 less to shift it

Pete

scooby11

Thanks Bob, I have PM'd you my number, that would be great.

Pete, I agree with your view, I reckon it may be just that. and £7k is not bad at all for that sort of age/mileage car if it is standard spec.

Let's see how it goes tomorrow.

Thanks
N.

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

It may be possible that the first owner did modify the car, but reverted it to std and sold the other bits off before selling it on (happens on here quite a bit). If possible, it would be good if you could get to speak directly with the first owner. Alway nice to get a feel for what they're like in any case. If you don't like the person, chance are you won't like the car as they say in the trade!

Very kind offer from Bob!

NS04

scooby11

Hi,

Just an update on this, I went to see the car on Saturday, and it was clean, much nicer than some of the examples that I have seen before.

There were no visible modifications except for the backbox, which is reasonable enough, and a bonus for me as I would have had that done anyway. Also has a tracker installed, which is a further saving. Certainly was very sweet/smooth to drive.

We struck a good deal, he offered a good amount for my part ex, and I get the car this weekend!! Cant wait!!

There are a few things that the dealer is going to sort out this week, including replacing the front dashboard 'top cubbyhole', replacing the brake pads, and touching up the front for a few stone chips etc. Nothing major.

Thanks again for all your advice, and especially Bob offering to come and view the car with me.

Looking forward to Scooby ownership!! It's going to be difficult to wait these next few days....

N.

theotherphil

Hi there, as the car has a tracker fitted try privilege for your insurance. Elephant quoted me £780 FC but I paid £490FC at Privilege....quite a saving!

(27yo Paramedic, 4yrs no claims, MY96 UK Turbo)

pslewis

Excellent news scooby11 ......... god, its going to be a LLLLOOOOOONNNNGGGGG week!

But, the joy is actually in the waiting - honestly!!

Sorry, thats utter bollox ........... its the DRIVING thats the thing!!!

Pete

scooby11

Thanks for the advice Phil, unfortunately, Privilege don't want to insure me as I am under 25, even though I am only months away from being 25. I guess next year there will be more insurance options available.

The wait is going to be painful... I will call the dealer today and get an update on the progress.....