Muzzman

Hi Everyone,

I'm into my second week of owning an '03 Forester XT and have started to think about modifying the car slightly.

Just wondering if anyone has any experience of the same kind of mods, firstly i'm getting rid of the 16" wheels with the Geolander tyres as i'm not intending on much offroad driving and am going to replace them with 18 x 8" wheels with lower profile tyres perhaps 235 x 45/50's.

Secondly i was thinking about taking it to Superchips +30bhp for £511, has anyone had this done to there car and were the results good, or can anyone suggest a better/ different route.

Third and finally i was going to have a 3.5" or 4.5" standard noise Hayward and Scott exhaust fitted (+10 bhp) http://www.haywardandscott.co.uk/subaru/index.htm
i don't want the exhaust note to be deafening just a nice burble above say 3000 revs and apparently this will suit. It's £250 +VAT for the backbox.

The car has high miles 62,000 so it's out of warranty so invalidating it isn't something to worry about. I bought the car off the company my step father works for and know that all the miles have been motorway and at the price i got it for (£6500) i thought it was still a good buy even without the warranty. It's also got a flip out Pioneer Sat Nav system installed.

Thanks for any advice you can give and i must say that i'm thoroughly enjoying Subaru ownership

corradoboy

Welcome to Scoobynet

I spoke to a Forester owner recently who was in the middle of something like this. IIRC he said that much of the exhaust (excluding the back box) was identical to a classic Impreza. If so, you could consider a full or partial decat with many parts available. You should be able to get a nice BB from someone like H&S or Scoobysport, or maybe even an STi one as fitted to the Forester STi (see Litchfield Imports ). Superchips aren't very well regarded on here, a bespoke map by someone such as Bob Rawle (BRD) will be mch safer and ultimately more rewarding. I wouldn't consider the remap until you have finalised any exhaust and engine mods so it can be tailored around them. You might consider a decent panel filter replacement too, such as JR Racing, Green or K&N (NOT ITG).

I'm with you on the wheels, but have you considered that the existing power could be put to better use if the chassis was more suited to high performance driving ? Some suspension tweeks could bring the car alive in the twisties. Speak to someone like Powerstation about ARB's, droplinks and possibly uprated/lower springs. I've just done the rear links and ARB on my WRX and it is much better value than eeking out another 20bhp on the road. "Power is Nothing Without Control" It would also be wise to consider uprating the brakes prior to any power upgrades, as there's no point going quick if you can't stop when you need to. IIRC Foresters have the old 2 pots (prepares to be corrected) and upgrading to some Impreza 4 pots with decent pads and maybe braided lines should be adequate.

Hope this helps

Knowlegable info here

Muzzman

Thanks for that, alot of sense spoken.

I like your way of thinking "Power is Nothing Without Control" and you're absolutely right, the Forester isn't that great on the twisties (not that i expect it to be it's not an Impreza and designed to fill a different role) so i won't be able to use the extra power except for in a straight line.

This weekend i'll get the new wheels and i'll look into the STi exhaust idea.

As for the suspension i can see very little being done at work for the foreseable future while i research it. I agree it's definately the way forward in the short to mid term.

It's going to take a while to figure out what i need as sadly my mechanical knowledge is limited to say the least.

Christ since i've got the new car my internet browsing has increased 10 fold, if i look at my google history, it's all Subaru this, Forester that, Performance everything !! Next stop PowerStation website!!

Thanks loads for the advice.

Dave T-S

1. Be very careful with wheel offset if going to 18" wheels. Forester offset is ET48 not ET53 as found on STi's etc. It will not have enough strut clearance or drive like a pig on some 18 or 19" wheel/tyre combinations if the wrong offset.

2. Ditto Superchips comments, for more power Prodrive PPP is a possibility, or, as it is out of warranty, maybe EcuTek remap.

3. I wouldn't fit a standard STi backbox, they are swaged down to around 38mm just before the inlet to the box and will restrict the system.

4. Re suspension, it already has solid drop links so no need to change them. Talk to Powerstation. Rear ARB change is a must for starters, the standard bar is a 17mm hollow one and very soft, and needs to be swopped with a 19 or 20mm solid one.

Dave

(Forester 2.5 XT being delivered on Friday - black pearl with tints, Prodrive P7 17" wheels, PPP (260bhp/280ft/lb) on order)

Muzzman

Hi Dave

Thanks for the advice on the wheels, what tyre size are on your Prodrive 17" wheels. I decided on 18" because i thought that because of the lower profile tyres it might not look quite right with 17" (just a thought i had, no real foundation for the idea) maybe to much space between the arch and the wheel.

Just had a look on the Prodrive website, very nice choice of wheels!! Infact your Forester sounds the nuts all round.

Is a rear ARB change something i could attempt myself, i have to admit my mechanical skills are non existant.

Thanks again for the advice

GC8

Superchips ffs? Super f*cking chips? You have to be joking? Hayward & Scott should be your first stop; never, ever, stop at Superchips.

Simon

Edited to add: A lot of Impreza chassis components will fit because the Forester was developed on the Impreza platform (think Impreza Scenic...). If you remember the 'new' white dial dash was developed for this vehicle and then used in the Impreza interior facelift.

Muzzman

cool, i get the general gist about superchips, i'll steer clear. Just phoned the alloy wheel shop and they said that the wheels are 18" x 8" with ET40, does this sound right, i said that the forester needs to be ET48 but they said it'll be fine???

Thanks

WRXPete

Have a chat with Andy Tang and Stevem at www.surreyscoobies.co.uk, they are the Forester Kings

Dave T-S

Muzzman
225/50x17 tyres on mine, which at 657mm diameter is the nearest to the OEM 215/60x16 tyre diameter of 664mm.

I don't like the sound of an ET40. It will give enough strut clearance, but I suspect the smaller offset will lead to horrible steering characteristics. I'll pass this thread URL on to someone that will know.

ARB change is probably not for the mechanically challenged. Powerstation are probably the best Subaru suspension experts around after Prodrive.

Muzzman

Thanks Dave, I'll go with that size then, i just phoned the wheel guy up and told him to stick them up his a*se, cheeky sod was selling them on ebay for 20% cheaper than he was going to sell them to me for. Plus ET40 didn't sound right to me and i haven't a clue.

I've just got off the phone with scoobyworld and they're going to get back to me on a price for 18" OZ Racing Crono Evolutions (before i read your post on 17") the idea was that they'd be £919 for 4 with Toyo tyres but unfortunately Toyo don't do the size i need so they can't give me a deal because they've got to get a different brand, so they're going to get back to me, sounds like 18" and Foresters just don't mix. http://www.scoobyworld.co.uk/catalog...ozcronoevo.jpg

WRXPete, i've just emailed Andy Tang so thanks for that.

Andy Tang

iTrader: (3)

Sorry I've only just seen this message! My daughter arrived on Friday and the internet has taken a back seat!!

Have a look on www.subaruforester.com loads of information, although it's a US based site, I know lots of the guys have got 18" or 19" wheels, and there will be plenty of recommendations for tyre brands and sizes there.

I'm not too familiar with the XT range, but I'm sure that either Stevem (on the www.surreyscoobies.co.uk site or here) will be able to help, or any of the guys on www.subaruforester.com

corradoboy

It's very easy. You don't even need to jack up the car as you need the suspension compressed to do the job. 2x 17mm nuts either side to release from the links and then disconnect it from the chassis mountings. Any more than 30 mins for an amatuer and you should leave it alone as you will be dangerous with a spoon

Muzzman

Thanks for that Andy. Congrats on the new arrival !

I was looking on www.subaruforester.com and this Forester kinda grabbed my eye, apparently it's wearing 18" C9 wheels, whatever they are. I think it looks pretty good.

Muzzman

corradoboy, i reckon that's a challenge i'll give it a go. What could possibly go wrong !

chris's scooby

I think that's been lowered somewhat as well.

I'm deciding between 17's and 18's at the moment. The 17's seem to be winning, which isn't something i'd thought would happen.

Nich B

Im running 17" with Bridgestone 215/50 R17
If you have 2 pots, checkout Godspeed for discs, http://www.godspeedbrakes.co.uk/ and this site for some 4 pots

Sti Panel filter (groupbuy on SN)

Forge recirculating DV (SN)

Hayward and Scott mid section and back box mmmmmmmmm nice (Goupbuy on sf.com

Braided lines and Samco from http://www.rallydesign.co.uk/catalog/index.php

Rear 20mm ARB (sn)

Powerflex drop links (sn)

plus what ever I can get away with, without the wife knowing, just tell her it costs £20 squid

Good underestimated motors, check out the Europe section of www.subaruforester.com nice friendly people with a load of info

Cheers

ricardo

With 18's on mine I've got 225/45 Bridgestones. Feeling round the inside I can't get even the tip of my finger into the gap between the rear strut and the protection rib on the sidewall, so I doubt whether wider than 225 would work without rubbing. I believe 225/45 does end up with the same overall rolling size as the smaller wheel plus 60-profile tyre, so the speedo is spot-on. In fact, it is annoyingly accurate, up to 60 the speedo shows exactly the same reading as GPS, so my safety cushion has gone...

Also, there aren't actually many tyres available in 225/45-18, a lot of the nice ones are 225/40 (Toyos, Goodyear GSD3).

Many of the Foresters you see on subaruforester.com are running with the STi suspension - not Forester STi, but Impreza STi - it drops the whole car quite a bit which might have insurance implications.

Regarding the exhaust, I have the original Forester STi exhaust from mine going spare, unused except for the SVA test. This is downpipe, mid and BB. Note that the Forester BB has a longer tip than the Impreza version, so using an Impreza STi bb doesn't quite clear the bumper line.

Muzzman

Hi Ricardo,

There shouldn't be any problem fitting this to an XT i take it, also i assume it would improve the airflow and give a much better noise. Perhaps we could come to some mutualy agreeable price for it. My email is ian.murray27@btinternet.com if you'd like to discuss it, or we can discuss it on the forum if you'd prefer.

Thanks for all the advice everyone, this is what i'm going to do.

Wheels/tyres 17 or 18" still haven't quite decided (was going to be this Saturday but realised my other car needs an MOT and i need to sell it, so might not be time)

20mm ARB

Exhaust System

Might tint the windows, desperately trying not to end up with a pimp my ride style of car so not sure.

And then probably a whole lot more but haven't got an endless supply of money.

Probably a long shot but anyone interested in a P reg Citroen Saxo VTR, Blue, 72,000 miles. 1 years MOT, 6 Months tax FSH. Been in the family since new (owned by my step-mother), totally unmodified and no horror stories. the only thing is some ijit in a carpark must have slightly caught the front bumper and a couple of brackets for the skirts are broken and a small triangle and an inch in size is missing from the corner of the front bumper. It lives in Essex (but you probably could have guessed that)

ricardo

Hi Ian,
I'm just wondering where in the country you are, I'm near Winchester.

I assume that the original Forester STi exhaust is slightly louder than the standard XT one, I can't see it being any quieter anyway...

I'm really not sure what the differences are between the two, especially regarding the parts nearer the engine - for all I know those bits are the same ! I'll try and find out. Certainly the STi backbox looks pretty good, in my garage...

In the area handling the bigger ARB and lower-profile tyres will transform it completely. That's probably the biggest single change you can make, the XT already has lots of torque so power gains are less of an issue.

Muzzman

Hi Ricardo,

I'm in Billericay in Essex, 110 miles to you, so not too painful, if you could try and find out it would be appreciated and then we'll have a chat about price and if all sounds good i can shoot round your way. I'm a bit tied up for the next couple of weeks (out of the country for most of it), but any time after that so no great rush.

Don't know if anyone's interested but i've been invited to Silverstone tomorrow by Williams F1 to watch there test day, get to go in the pits, driven round the track etc and then you get to chat to the drivers for an hour at lunchtime. I'll post some pictures if it's worth it, the only place you're not allowed to take pictures is in the garage.

Muzzman

OK no going back, ordered these with 225/40/18 tyres

ricardo

Very nice, which actual tyres are you getting ?

Muzzman

OK this is the choice, for £745 i get 4xAlloys and GT Sampero's which apparently are ZR rated, or i can pay £80 extra and they'll fit Avon ZZ3's ot £100 extra and they'll fit Toyo Proxes. What do you reckon?

Muzzman

I forgot to ask, should i buy a 5th wheel and tyre because if i get a flat the existing wheel will be no good, i was worried about the difference in size screwing up the drivetrain, what with the AWD.

Andy Tang

iTrader: (3)

I kept a very similar rolling circumference to the original tyres, so there was no need for a fifth alloy.

Only an issue if you may have is if you increase the size of the disk brake and the spare can't clear it!!

I'm currently using Falken ZE512 tyres and at the price they are incredible!! Might be worth looking at www.camskill.co.uk for tyres.

Dave T-S

Muzzman

Right......wheels and tyres are a minefield!

What offset are the wheels you are getting?

As suspected, Prodrive say ET40 will NOT work.

Re tyres, 225/40x18 at 637mm diameter is NOT ideal - it is 17mm less diameter than the OEM 215/60x16 and will lower the gearing - marginally better acceleration but increased noise, mechanical wear and tear and reduced fuel consumption. Subarus are not so fussy about differing diameters on different wheels as many AWD cars (and they have to cater for full and minimum tread depth on different wheels for the same tyres, which may be as much as about 8mm), but as you say you would almost certainly need to use a 5th new one for spare as a 17mm difference is probably too much across axles/end to end (and something else to contemplate, the 5th as spare may not fit in the spare wheel well......).

225/45x18 is better at 660mm diameter.

What the hell are GT Sampero tyres? Sound VERY scary, and they are the only thing preventing you punching a Forester shaped hole in the hedge on your favourite bend........

However, the single biggest issue with 18" tyres on a Forester is not speed rating, but is getting an adequate *load* rated tyre. The OEM 16" has a load rating of 95V. You can get away with 94V, but if you put anything less on you can probably be prosecuted under the Construction and Use Regulations for having an inadequate load rating tyre - not fit for the purpose as the vehicle would have been Type Approved with a higher rated tyre. More worryingly, if you have an accident due to a tyre failure a sharp eyed assessor from your insurance company (and they know about this) may refuse to pay out. Unlikely, and it's your choice to run the risk, but nevertheless you ought to be aware

Another safety related issue regarding replacement wheels - all OEM Subaru wheels rely on a hub spigot to locate the wheel under lateral load - the wheel studs are designed for clamping loads only, NOT shear (sideways) loading. If you fit aftermarket wheels, which are designed to fit many different cars (unlike the Prodrive ones which are correct for the car, and that with offset issues and tyre loadings is why they have not yet offered a 18" option for the Forester) they MUST have a hub concentric spacer fitted that locates the wheel snugly on the hub spigot. Ideally the wheel itself should be the correct size spigot hole. Apart from the fact that wheel studs could shear and a wheel part company without accurate hub spigot location, lack of such can also lead to wheel vibration/balance problems.

Re other posts on 17" wheels, 215/50x17 tyres are not recommended by Prodrive any longer for the Forester as the 225/50x17 is nearer to OEM diameter.

Lastly, re the post on being able to get a finger in between the tyre and strut I would agree this is probably adequate, but it is worth noting that it is not primarily tyre width that dictates strut clearance, but wheel offset. The same tyre may rub on a different offset wheel. Also, there may be sufficient clearance with a particular wheel/tyre combo, but if it is the wrong offset the car will drive like a pig.

Thanks to Mike Wood at Prodrive who has guided me though many of these issues! I think that's enough for now!!

Dave T-S

By the way, any really reputable wheel and tyre supplier should be able to voluntarily tell you the above without simply taking your money and sending you on your way with any old inadequate crap that is not fit for the purpose, or simply dangerous

corradoboy

http://www.tyresave.co.uk/tyresize.html

Might come in handy

Muzzman

I'm going on a bit now and hope i'm not boring everyone to death but this is the low down, the alloys are ET45. They have a hub spigot and he'll do me 225/45/18 ZR Rated Maxxis tyres for £60 extra. Apparently he didn't register what a Forester was and he agree's that this is a much better size. Are we getting somewhere do you think?

Thanks for taking the time and trouble to write all that Dave.

ricardo

That was my post - a finger tip cannot be inserted very far into the gap (and my fingers are quite small !) These are OEM Subaru 225/45-18 wheels plus Bridgestone RE030 tyres. The load index code on the Bridgestones is 91W.

http://www.thegaddfamily.co.uk/images/DSC00529.jpg