Paul Type R

Hi,

Will fitting a center de-cat section make the exhaust note louder on my 1998 UK 2000 Turbo? It has an STI 5 back box on it already.

Or will I have to put a de-cat down pipe on it too?


Cheers,

Paul.

Paul Type R

Has no one got a de-cat or something? lol.....

Some input would be nice ??

Paul.

RB5_245

yes it will, louder still with full de-cat though. thourghly recomend it

Brun

A little deeper pehaps and maybe an extra pop or two
I say **** it and do a full decat anyway. Possibly the best bang for your buck without mentioning the Dawes device

pslewis

Yes, but then every MOT you need the CAT back on - then change back again after ... can anyone really be 4rsed??

Pete

Paul Type R

Cool...I'll do the full de-cat soon. I got a centre de-cat pipe cheap though...so I'll be looking for the downpipe next!

What are these engines like for reliability if I up the boost? How high is it safe to go on stock internals??

Cheers,

Paul.

Paul Type R

Yeah!! it's only once every 12 months though......there are a few 'friendly' MOT stations that will let the car through without the cats too

Paul.

hoskib

iTrader: (1)

nope, that's why it goes to a 'friends' garage and SHOCKER, it sails thru. full decat

keeno

If you want noise-Go for a full Blitz it sounded amazing

RB5_245

Spend some time looking through the technical sections. It's not a good Idea just to whack on a heap of boost without the supporting mods.

Dave

Paul Type R

Yeah, Are you saying that it's not safe to up the boost at all with standard internals...even with both cats removed etc? If not, why not?

Paul.

urban

iTrader: (1)

Cause its not safe as mentioned already, you need to up the other areas to match.

Get it remapped properly if you want extra power.
You can use those dopey dawes things, but personally I think its asking for trouble.

Shaun

Paul Type R

Well this is the first car that I've ever owned where you need a re-map to get any kind of power increase in that case.

What size injectors has the UK 2000 Turbo car got?

Cheers,

Paul.

bgood

iTrader: (2)

Surely if you just up the boost in any car you will be running lean if you don't adjust the fuelling to match and running lean is definitely not a good thing or am I just talking borrocks

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

Paul, it's not that the internals won't cope per se, it's that you should not just up the boost on a car without making appropriate adustments to the ignition, fueling etc...to do so can lead to serious problems. Even running a full Decat means that it's wise to get a Knock link fitted to watch for any problems that may result from the ECU not accommodating the change suficiently well.

The following link gives a good idea of why its not a good idea to up the boost without making changes to other parameters.

http://www.powerengineering.co.uk/ac...tech.htm#chips

Regards,

Paul

Paul Type R

No,

take my Mr2 Turbo for instance...standard boost is 0.9bar, it's generally safe to up the boost to 1.2bar without any adverse affects with standard internals/ecu and a de-cat and intercooler. The ECU can cope with this fine as it re-learns if you re-set it.

To get more power you need bigger injectors and some kind of fuel controller though.

Cheers,

Paul.

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

From the power engineering link. There may be a bit of plugging for thier Ecutek 2 mapping here, so I should point out that they are not the only company that offer this. Ecutek 3 (a custom map) is preferred by many who modify their scoobies and there are many licenced mappers that offer this service! *mods, have I covered my ar$e sufficiently :-) *

Chips

What is a chip anyway?

A chip is the common name given to a device within a car's computer which stores data about how the car is designed to run. The verb "to chip" is new and is the common phrase used to mean "to make a car go faster".

Almost anything electronic has chips in it. Your car has many chips but the ones we are interested in store data which is received from signals from the engine (water temperature, throttle position, revs etc) and outputs control signals to things like fuel injectors, ignition coil and wastegate solenoid valve.


What do other companies offer for chipping?

The most common conversion carried out is a small additional board which interrupts the signal from the air flow meter and electronically "clamps" it at a value which is lower than the factory boost limit. This means the boost pressure can be raised using an air bleed valve on the turbo, and you get more power.

So what is wrong with that?

The ECU sees input signals saying the engine is making say 1 bar (14.7 psi) boost pressure, so it calculates the ignition and fuel requirements for 1 bar using the maps in the chip. But the engine is set up to make 1.2 bar (17.5 psi) boost so that's 20% more air coming in. It also requires completely different ignition mapping for 1.2 bar than 1 bar because combustion chamber pressure will be considerable higher. Result: weak mixture and advanced timing.

Is that all?

What do you mean "is that all"? If that is not bad enough for you then I will explain more. Because the boost is controlled by a bleed valve and not by the ECU, the boost setting will alter with air temperature and pressure. So you will have more boost on some days and be even closer to engine failure. Also there are various safety features within the programme which under certain conditions will lower the boost. The ECU cannot do this if there is a bleed valve fitted.

So how does the Power Engineering re-programmed ECU make more power?

Within the programme is a sophisticated boost control system which looks at air temperature coming into the engine and outside air pressure. It then calculates the boost pressure required to match another map within the programme. If it cannot match the boost it will increase until the two match. We can alter these two maps to safely increase boost.

OK, but you said more boost means weak mixture and incorrect ignition timing and big bang.

That's right. This is why we carefully re-map both fuel and ignition settings for each car. When you raise the boost, airflow increases and sometimes the airflow is greater than the scale of the maps used. So we often have to re-scale the maps to allow the engine to read completely from zero boost to the new maximum boost settings.

You're losing me.

Sorry, but you did ask and it is not an easy subject. Do you want bull or facts?

OK. OK.

Paul Type R

So basically the scooby ECU isnt very versatile and capable of 're-learning' to any extent (it it's stock form?)?

Sounds like Ecutec is the way to go then!

Paul.

chrisp

Much better and safer with a remap. The other issue is the fuel cut at 1.19bar on a Uk turbo. A remap will take this into consideration, boost controller you will have to mess with to get close too. Plus changes in weather means you maybe tweaking it often to cure overboosting issues.

chrisp

Paul are you still definitely going on Sunday ?

Paul Type R

Hi Chris,

I take it your talking about the stoke/derby meet??

did I speak to you about it already? sorry, bad memory

Paul.

New_scooby_04

iTrader: (4)

No, quite the opposite in fact; Ecutek 3 on an MY99 onwards is only a remapping of the std ECU not different chip. It's just that the manufacturers designed the ECU to operate around certain parameters considered normal for a car of standard spec (bare in mind, they don't really want you fiddling with the car). If you want it to run permanently outside these parameters by changing the cars spec, then you need to let it know that the "normal parameters" have changed, so that its set up to exploit the changes.

There are a few exceptionally good mappers on here, do a bit of digging! ;-)

chrisp

No mate, just double checking you were going and still wanted the decat centre. If you arent or dont want it, it just saves me giving it a bit of a clean and bring it with me.

Paul Type R

Hi,

Yes, I want the de-cat still

Sorry, I missed your other posts on the other thread!!

I'm meeting some chaps at ABP motorsport at 10:30 I think, then on to Meir, then onto derby!!

So I'll see you there.

silver uk 2000 AWD....look out for me!!

Paul.

chrisp

yep no problem then, most of the Stoke boys know me

I have a sonic blue MY00 WRX Type RA with a big version 6 spoiler, 18" gold wheels also has ChrisP graphics on the side windows .

I would edit you plate as well from previous post, never know who watching.

See you Sunday

AvalancheS8

The bad news is that ECUTEC is '99 onwards only. '93-'96 cars can get a ScoobyECU chip, '99 onwards have ECUTEC, which re-maps the existing ECU. For '97 & '98 cars you need to either find a Prodrive ECU - which are like hens teeth, get a daughter board re-map from Power Engineering (what I have on my '97 car) or go for an aftermarket ECU, Apexi seems to be favoured as the best bet at the moment.

Incidentally, I couldn't run any more than 1.05 bar without hitting fuel cut before I changed the ECU in mine, it ran that no problem, no knock or AFR problems showing on the Knocklink or Lambdalink, but it wouldn't run any higher than that. Full De-cat and the re-map chip has made quite a big difference.

The stock injectors on a '98 will be 380s, which will be O.K until you are up to a level of changing the turbo (about 280 bhp) The fuel pump etc should be fine up to about this level too.