Scott J Davies

Good Work Fella

Glad to see you have made an effort to make your opinion heard.

You should cc your letter to your MP and maybe some national rags, it may not do anything bu then again you never know.

Regards

Scott

TonyBurns

iTrader: (3)

Hi Dave,
like it, direct to the point, you cou
ld introduce about drivers not wearing seatbelts, the ammout of people i see where i live (mainly young males 17-25) who dont wear them is criminal, i feel they think they are indestructable and even when they speed through the town are a hazzard to both pedestrians and themselves!
At the end of the day, its the innocents that get hurt and the guilty that just get the slap on the wrist and told not to do it again........

Tony

john thorne

The cynic in me says whats the point, but congrats for making the effort. I know a few police officers in traffic and when pushed (ie get 'em pissed) they all agree that the methods by which speed cameras are placed are designed to catch people NOT slow them down. In reality I do not think anything will change until the Govt (local or central) recognises that its bad driving which causes crashes (good point by the way) and proper use of speed is part of that equation - NOT the only part.

Good luck with the response, be interested to know if you get one.
John

HunterB

Dave,

That's an excellent letter. I'm pleased you make the point about pedestrian responsibility as well (I extend this to suggest that every vulnerable road user - pedestrians, cyclists, skateboarders, horse riders, motor cyclists, etc) needs to exercise more responsibility for their own safety rather than devolve that responsibility to drivers who are protected by a safety cell.

Unfortunately, the government wants to make drivers liable in the event of ANY collision with a pedestrian, regardless of how much the pedestrian contributed to the event (by being drunk, by stepping into the road without looking, or even with a determination to commit suicide!) This can't be right and only contributes to the criminalising of safe drivers.

You are absolutely correct when you say that, in an ideal world, pedestrians and vehicles would be separated to avoid collisions. It works in the main for railways, although I do find it interesting to note that the government recognises that people commit suicide by putting themselves in front of a train, but will not recognise that the same may be true of pedestrians putting themselves in front of a car. Same result for the pedestrian, potentially different result for the driver.

I'd be interested to know how they respond, particularly to your question on the siting of cameras.

More power to your pen.

Regards,
Brian

skipjack

good letter, excellent

this is what it's all about: government, in its broadest sense and regardless of political leaning, will seek to exercise the maximum control over the populace. and we all know that motorists have become a soft target.

if you feel strongly, push back (within the law, of course). when you find other like minded individuals, co-ordinate and push back together.

some anecdotal evidence: police and ealing council close a rat run at the edge of the A406 by ealing common and make it bus-only. no warning: small sign goes up but years of habit die hard, people turn right and use it. concealed police bike lets five cars into the rat run, stops them and issues £40 penalty fine and three points to all concerned. ok, he's just doing his job: but it's the wrong job. and yes, he shouldn't have smugly revealed that his team had "made a packet" in fines over the previous few days.

four of us immediately discuss this at the roadside, pretty ticked off, take policeman's name & number and agree to send complaint letters to council, police and local paper. i paid my fine and sent off my licence for my points (ouch! thank you sir, please may i have some more). result: points revoked, penalty fine re-imbursed with cheque, personal letter of apology from ealing police.

a cherished moment of victory over dumb policy.

moral of the tale? don't let them walk on you when they take the mickey: these people are supposed to be our public servants and not our masters. the results can be surprising. and this BBS for example, is a great way of sharing experience to do something about it.

phew. got that off my chest.


The Hard Target Club

Dave P

This is a letter I have drafted to the Kent and Sussex Courier. It is in direct response to:

Sussex Polices (not totally missguided) attempt to reduce speeders in built up areas.

Kent County Council's installation of GATSO's in and around Tunbridge Wells, some conveniently hidden behind traffic signs.

Any comments gratefully received. being half way through Roadcraft, I am more mindful than ever of speeding in 30mph zones, however I baulk at the apauling driving on our motorways, and the way drivers inside the 30 speed limit (i.e. legal) drive with fragrant disregard to others safety by tailgating etc.

Here it is:

Sir,

So, Sussex Police clampdown on speeding, asking motorists to follow the simple code, "Slow Down, Belt Up" and Tunbridge Wells is now the proud owner of 4 speed cameras, courtesy of Kent County Council.

The two key words that are always forgotten under the mass of speed propoganda are "DRIVE SAFELY". Both of these initiatives infer that it is speed alone that kills. However it is not just about changing attitudes to speed, it's about changing the way we drive and the way we behave as pedestrians. Only the other week I was in a queue of traffic entering Tunbridge Wells from Crowborough. Our speed, 30 mph. We had all slowed down and belted up. Following Police and Government advice we now had a perceived feel of safety. The only snag was that at the front of the traffic queue was a learner driver, unfortunately being tailgated at a distance of no more than 4 feet. Make your own judgement as to whether we were all really that safe.

To encourage speed reduction, we must ensure the cynisism that surrounds Police Speed Traps and Gatso cameras is removed. For example is there any particular reason for hiding the two GATSO's in Southborough behind traffic signs? I hope it wasn't a deliberate attempt to generate revenue at the expense of safety, because logic deems that you can only respond to a deterrent if you can see it! I would challenge both Kent, and Sussex Police Forces and County Councils to publish the sites of their static and mobile speed cameras. South Yorkshire Police Force, took the decision this year to publish the sites of their mobile speed cameras. In the words of Superintendent Stuart Chapman, Head of their Traffic department, "We want people to slow down. If we don't catch anyone speeding, by publicising where our speed cameras will be, then we will have succeeded."

To encourage a change in driving attitudes, the only solution I can see is through driver education. It is not sufficient to hand out a fixed penalty, 4 point endorsement and £100 fine to a 17 year old for exceeding the speed limit by 25mph. He won't learn, he'll do it again, and again, and again and if he's lucky he won't kill anyone. The Government should be looking to divert fines into Police Forces for compulsory driver re-education.

Pedestrian education is the last link in the chain. In an ideal world the pedestrian uses the pavement and the car uses the road. Accidents (crashes really, because an accident implies no one was at fault) occur when one crosses into the others territory. How many times have you watched a child hurried across a road 10 feet away from a zebra crossing. The Government target is to reduce child fatalaties by 50%, this in my opinion can only be acheived by education. When I was young we had the Tufty Club, The Green Cross Code Man and a Police Officer who paid visits to our school with a blue soap pig. What are our children offered today in terms of road awareness training. Nothing tangiable that I see.

We cannot hope to make our roads safer by concentrating on speed alone, to do so is both naive and dangerous. The sooner heads are pulled out of the sand the better, and the safer our roads will be.

Safe Driving One and All.

Dave P

Dave P

Thx all for the positive input.

My letter has now winged it's way through the ether to Kent and Sussex Courier and the Dail Mail.

Lets see who's bold enough to print such inflamatory anti establishment stuff.

Dave

rogermcb

Excellent stuff. Check out

blubs

Nice one Dave.

Keep us posted on how it goes.

blubs

Dave P

The Daily Mail kicked it back and the Courier want a shorterned version... so here goes. They did assure me though they weren't trying to censor my views.....

Dave P

Updated version cut to 329 words, I have to admit I'm particularly pleased with the last minute thought of Jaywalking fines... hit the pedestrian for some cash for a change.Sussex Police clampdown on SPEEDING. Tunbridge Wells has four new SPEED cameras. SPEED KILLS are today’s buzzwords.

However it isn’t just about changing attitudes to speed, it's about changing the way we drive and the way we behave as pedestrians. A driver tailgating is as dangerous at 25mph as he is at 39mph. A pedestrian crossing the road 10 feet from a zebra crossing with a five year old child in tow, well judge yourself.

To encourage speed reduction, we must ensure the cynisism that surrounds Speed Traps is removed. For example is there any reason the GATSO's in Southborough hide behind traffic signs? To respond to a warning you have to see it first. South Yorkshire Police now publish the sites of their mobile speed cameras. In the words of the Head of their Traffic department, "We want people to slow down. If we don't catch anyone speeding, by publicising where our speed cameras will be, then we will have succeeded."

To encourage a change in driving attitudes, the solution must be driver education. A 4 point endorsement handed to a 17 year old for exceeding the speed limit will not change the way he drives. What if Council’s diverted their new, GATSO fine income to Police Forces to provide advanced driver training to excessive speeders.

Pedestrians are the final link. Ideally the pedestrian uses the pavement and the car uses the road. Crashes (accident, implies no one was at fault) occur when the two meet. The Government aim to reduce child fatalaties by 50%. I remember The Tufty Club, The Green Cross Code Man and a Policeman at school with his blue soap pig. This type of education is a social responsibility, not just a parental one, but where is it now? And how about fines for Jaywalking to encourage pedestrians off the road.

To concentrate on speed alone is both naive and dangerous, the real buzzwords should be “On a Road, then Think Safe, Be safe”.


See Ya

Triggaaar

Good stuff, great that you've made the effort.

A good letter - my only concern as I was reading it was your point of hiding GATSOs to generate revenue - I would expect their reply to say they don't want offenders to drive slowly only where there are GATSOs, but drive slowly at all times (using hidden GATSOs to force this) - but your quote from South Yorkshire Police will hopefully prevent that response.

Unfortunately, I now pay far to much attention to the side of the road due the GATSOs, instead of looking at the road ahead. There must be a better way.