elondan

I saw a comaprison between the P1, EVO6 and S4, conducted by Autocar, it was obvious the S4 would lose,
I think a more appropriate comparison would be between these cars,
How come no magazine thought of this before?
Do any of you guys have any expirience with the three?

Triggaaar

The S4 is quicker than the S3 (2.7 twin turbo, 270hp). 0-60 of about 6 secs, as opposed to 6.7ish for the S3.

And the S4 is a good car - it's quick and well refined. But it's not as fast on A & B roads as a std Scooby, let alone a P1 or EVO6. It's not that sort of car. It's a powerful car for those who like to be comfy - like the BMW 850 was described as a sports car for people who don't like sports cars.

elondan

How about the S4 Vs. the B4 RSK and VR4?
I know the regular Legacy is a better drive than the Audi A4, is this also true with these models?

Stupot

I have seen a B4 RSK in a show room (didnt go for test drive) and was very impressed with the build quality and spec. I am seriously thinking of going the B4 way next time
Stu

RobMac

The S4 is a VERY good car, but not worth the extra money over the other two.

The S3 is actually a faster car and at the same money as the other two and so a better comparison.

If I had the choice and the money? An S4.
Or an RS4 if I could get one.

RoShamBo

iTrader: (1)

EVO Mag tested a B4 vs a VR4 fairly recently - Have got the magazine at home if you want me to FAX over the page to you...

Ro.

elondan

What was their conclusion?
and didi they mention the Audi?

RoShamBo

iTrader: (1)

From memory - the VR4 edged it (cant remember why exactly - I can dig out the test) & they didn't mention the Audi.

Ro

pwebb

have been in an extended test drive of b4 - initially felt slooooow after the sti... however ...

interior - very nice - even has carpet on boot lid etc., vast boot too.

best spec is leather trim - also try to get the mcintosh radio and the silver dash trim (not funny grey formica stuff).

on the road - ridiculously light steering (spoils everything) with very little feel - suspension is awesome with very good damping too - much better than imprezas (yes)

engine - oh dear, plenty of grunt ( i suppose) - about the same as uk car, however, there is a gigantic gulf between 3000 revs and 4000 revs when NOTHING happens - it feels like a giant flat spot or misfire - completely spoiled the car for me so I wasn't interested any more - they really need to sort this out (the show car electra 2 had a single big turbo instead so maybe one day).... NB if you are thinking of buying a car from a showroom - get a BIG discount as there is a facelifted model out in japan as of 2 months ago.

brakes are 2 pot jobbies (as per older imprezas) - probably need an upgrade, but wheels are already 17".

boot spoiler, posh radio/leather etc. are all extras

NB - this car is very complicated - it has active diffs, elctronically controlled variable valve timing, electronic muffler control on exhaust + VDC - vehicle dynamics System (as per bmw/audi etc) as well as usual abs and 4 wheels drive - thus there is a LOT to go wrong!

get the manual not the tiptronic auto - though both gearboxes are excellent.

very smooth + quiet generally - a civilised car - not at all like the impreza.

mail me if you want more info/ scans of catalogues etc.


btw - my fave is the 'blitzen' edition in black - could be a great car to import direct from japan.

paul w

maimailto:Paul.webber@avecia.com

clarence

I don't think B4 has VDC. In fact, none of the Legacy saloons have VDC. VVT only applies to the B4 RS (non-turbo), the RSK does not have them.
Are u sure the car u drove is fault-free?? I drove one last year and the power delivery felt very linear with very little lag, though a look at the torque curve in the brochure shows a flat line between 3000-4000. Still, the large turbo came in very gently. Totally agree with u on the steering, too light! Suspension setting is excellent and the brakes are good too.
AFAIK, there's no facelift to the Legacy range in Japan. Though they did launch the '2000' version of the Legacy range, which included a new flat-6 for the Legacy Lancaster (Outback in UK) and lower emissions for the entire range of engines.

pwebb

disagree on above - all the legacys including the B4 were changed last month - visually the same from outside but a whole raft of changes - check the jap website if not convinced .

VDC was in the spec of the RSK last time I checked but will have a look when I get home to blighty on friday - I assumed this was responsible for the excellent ride + handling?

on engine curve - the flat spot is due to twin turbo config... the very small one gives up at 3000 revs and the bigger one takes a while to spool up - hence the wait - it ruins the acceleration IMO - quite why they couldn't re-program to have both on the go from 2750 revs god only knows - anyway the electra 2 got a bigger single turbo and a subsequent hike in power + torque without the plateau in the curves - that says it all really.

pnebbs

My GT-B has the torque gap at about 4-4500rpm, it produces solid boost from 2400rpm till 4000 and then again from 4500 till 7000.

Normally the exhaust flow to the 2nd Turbo is shut off till 4000rpm, when both turbos are used for the rest of the rev range. It is possible to modify the plumbing so both turbos come in at the same time, but because each turbo will now only get half the exhaust flow, neither cuts in till over 4000rpm.

The problem seems to be caused by the first turbo suddenly loosing half its exhaust flow, and the delay in spooling up the second against the boost already in the plenum/intercooler

It is possible to reduce the torque gap considerably with a free flow exhaust and removing the second cat

Paul


[This message has been edited by pnebbs (edited 05-07-2000).]

clarence

I know there were detailed changes on the mechanical side, but my interpretation of 'facelift' is changes to the appearance of the car, which none of the 2000 Legacys have.
As for VDC, I'm pretty sure it isn't on the RSK. I'm sure the excellent ride/handling is due to the Bilstein struts and good suspension tuning, VDC doesn't affect the ride quality of the car. Still amazed at the speed it can achieve when going down from one of the highest peaks in Hong Kong, the braking and cornering is just right for that car. Would buy one tho, and change the exhaust.